The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[pescador]

Yes, I can clearly see that.That is not stated in any of the gospels. You need to support your claim with evidence from the gospels.Your at it again. Where in Leviticus does it say that the first day of unleavened bread, is a Sabbath day? You need the evidence from the scripture. That is your claim and we need the evidence.

Without the evidence you do not have a valid claim.

Is somebody being charged with a crime here? I don't get it.

 

[Bro.T]

I thought that the SDA interpretation of the seventy weeks in the book of Daniel. Converted each week in the seventy weeks to years, as explained in the quote below.

But the only prophetic time mentioned in the vision of Daniel 9 is the seventy weeks. Could we not logically conclude, then, that when Gabriel deals with the seventy weeks, or 490 years. (SDAnet.org/atissue/books/qod/q25.htm)

The passage you quoted with one of the weeks of the seventy weeks, showing days and not years.

Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

It is therefore also logical, that the covenant the messiah confirms with many for one week. Is logically a week of seven years!

The SDA is contradicting itself here.

Either the seventy weeks of Daniel is 490 years or it is not 490 years.

The seventy weeks must be only 483 years because one of the weeks is converted into days?

We have a problem Houston.

I'm not sure how the SDA works. You have to start from Daniel 9:24-27. That time frame Daniel talks about, goes back from Ezra to the Messiah 30 A.D. to Titus 70 A.D. That's another lesson for another time. No need for me to get into all that, right now. My focus is on the death and resurrection of Jesus. Daniel tell you when to start your count in verse 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I understand that and I know about all the weeks and years. Why can't you see that from Daniel time to the Messiah's (Jesus) is fulfilled.

How many Messiah's you think is coming or came? I'm starting to see you just don't spiritually understand what's going on, if you can't see this. This is plan.

Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

If you understand that they are weeks of YEARS, why do you keep repeating the same thing?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

Seventy weeks are decreed upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sin, and to forgive iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal vision and prophet, and to anoint the most holy place.

Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto one anointed, a prince, shall be seven weeks; and for threescore and two weeks, it shall be built again, with broad place and moat, but in troublous times.

And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; but his end shall be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and upon the wing of detestable things shall be that which causeth appalment; and that until the extermination wholly determined be poured out upon that which causeth appalment.

 

[prodromos]

I understand that and I know about all the weeks and years.

for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week)

Your latter statement contradicts your former.

 

[klutedavid]

I'm not sure how the SDA works.

Hello.

Just look up the SDA and the resurrection account. Then you will know what is going on. Takes no more than say twenty minutes to understand their claim. Regarding the death and resurrection of Jesus.

You have to start from Daniel 9:24-27. That time frame Daniel talks about, goes back from Ezra to the Messiah 30 A.D. to Titus 70 A.D. That's another lesson for another time. No need for me to get into all that, right now. My focus is on the death and resurrection of Jesus. Daniel tell you when to start your count in verse 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

Without understanding the SDA claim of a five day event for the death and resurrection. You will not understand this thread.

I understand what you are saying regarding that week.

 

[klutedavid]

Is somebody being charged with a crime here? I don't get it.

Do you believe that Jesus was buried and crucified on Wednesday, that Wednesday was a preparation day. The next day Thursday is a high Sabbath day. Friday is another preparation day. Then we have Saturday, the second Sabbath day. Saturday is also the day Jesus rose from the tomb. Then finally we have the first day when Jesus was witnessed to have risen. That is SDA doctrine.

Now do you get it?

Is anyone wants a five day death and resurrection event, then they need the scripture to support the claim.

 

[klutedavid]

Why do you go against the Scriptures when it's not that difficult to read?

For the sake of others I'll cover it from the Old Testament, not for you:

Ex 12:5-18
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

14th of Nissan, at evening, the passover lamb was to be sacrificed. That is when Jesus was crucified, on the 14th of Nissan per this requirement, as Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:7 that Jesus our passover is sacrificed for us.


7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

At sunset on the 14th Nissan began the first day of the passover, and they were to eat the passover that night. This is now the 15th of Nissan.


14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
KJV

The feast was to begin "at even", meaning at evening, after sunset on the 14th Nissan. That means the preparation and sacrifice was on the 14th Nissan at evening, and then at sunset began the 15th and thus the 1st day of the feast, which was to be a 'high day', a sabbath (but not the regular weekly sabbath).

I do not see in the scripture you posted, any mention of a preparation day. No mention of a high Sabbath day or a Sabbath day.

All I see is a holy convocation.

Can you support your claim or not. You need the scripture that states that the first day of unleavened bread is a Sabbath day. From Exodus or Leviticus.

 

[klutedavid]

Jesus says in (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

You have to focus on getting me both, threes days and three nights. Not just the days. Now remember God's days start at evening and end the next evening.

So Jesus would Have been in the Grave Wednesday night, Thursday daytime and Thursday night, Friday daytime, Friday night, Saturday daytime and Jesus rose right before the sun went down on Saturday. Hence one has the 3 days and 3 nights which Jesus prophesied.

His death Wednesday night is consistent with the comment of the prophet Daniel, stating the Messiah would be cut off (killed) in the midst of the week.

Daniel 9:26-27 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (Wednesday is the middle of the week) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (Remember, Jesus is the sacrificial Passover Lamb).

Another example in Mark 16: 1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

Jesus was gone way before Sunday Morning.

How do you read this verse?

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week.

 

[klutedavid]

You really don't understand the Old Testament requirement at all.

You need to demonstrate from the Old Testament that the first day of unleavened bread. Is a Sabbath day and has a preparation day before it.

I have read both Exodus and Leviticus and there is no mention of a preparation day or a Sabbath day. In the text, when it discusses the first day of unleavened bread.

There is no level of understanding or theology involved in this. The issue is whether the first day of unleavened bread is called a Sabbath day, in Leviticus or Exodus. And you need a preparation day before that first day of unleavened bread. This must be written in Leviticus or Exodus.

If there is no mention of the first day of unleavened bread being a Sabbath day in Exodus or Leviticus. Then your claim is baseless.

It does not matter what any scholar claims, the evidence from the scripture is all that matters.

 

[klutedavid]

You really don't understand the Old Testament requirement at all.

Still waiting for a reply on this.

I thought that the SDA interpretation of the seventy weeks in the book of Daniel. Converted each week in the seventy weeks to years, as explained in the quote below.

But the only prophetic time mentioned in the vision of Daniel 9 is the seventy weeks. Could we not logically conclude, then, that when Gabriel deals with the seventy weeks, or 490 years. (SDAnet.org/atissue/books/qod/q25.htm)

If so then what happens when one of the 70 weeks is a seven day week.

How can it still be 70 weeks = 490 years???

 

[prodromos]

You really don't understand the Old Testament requirement at all.

Then demonstrate how you have reached your understanding.

 

[Davy]

I do not see in the scripture you posted, any mention of a preparation day. No mention of a high Sabbath day or a Sabbath day.

All I see is a holy convocation.

Can you support your claim or not. You need the scripture that states that the first day of unleavened bread is a Sabbath day. From Exodus or Leviticus.

If you don't recognize the time of the lamb sacrifice it's because you don't want... to.

Ex 12:5-18
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

Shall kill it in the EVENING, on the 14th Nissan. That was the 'preparation'. At sunset on that day would begin the 15th Nisan, the time when they were to eat the passover.

So what don't you understand that the lamb sacrifice had to happen first before eating it?

Ex. 12:8
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.


As Bullinger showed also...

"That the first day of each of the three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles, was "a holy convocation", a "sabbath" on which no servile work was to be done. See Lev. 23:7, 24, 35. Cp. Ex. 12:16.

"That Sabbath" and the "high day" of John 19:31, was the "holy convocation", the first day of the feast, which quite overshadowed the ordinary weekly sabbath.

It was called by the Jews Yom tov ( = Good day), and this is the greeting on that day throughout Jewry down to the present time.

This great sabbath, having been mistaken from the earliest times for the weekly sabbath, has led to all the confusion."

John 19:14
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, 'Behold your King!'
KJV

John 19:30-31
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
KJV

Like I said, if you can't see that it's because you don't want... to see it, but just want to argue! And the more you refuse to read the simple Scripture the more you show rebellion against God's Word.

 

[Bro.T]

How do you read this verse?

Mark 16:9
Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week.

Full story concerning Jesus raisning on Sunday Morning right here, in detail...Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

You still can't get three days and three night from Good Friday to Sunday Morning!

 

[Bro.T]

Your latter statement contradicts your former.

No it don't, you just don't understand, nor do your heart wants to.

 

[prodromos]

Like I said, if you can't see that it's because you don't want... to see it, but just want to argue! And the more you refuse to read the simple Scripture the more you show rebellion against God's Word.

I didn't realise you considered Bullinger as Scripture.
Where do the Scriptures (or any Jewish source for that matter) state that there was a "day of preparation" before the feast of unleavened bread?

 

[prodromos]

No it don't, you just don't understand, nor do your heart wants to.

Those with weak arguments always fall back on ad hominems

 

[Bro.T]

If you understand that they are weeks of YEARS, why do you keep repeating the same thing?

Because I'm a little shock at how plain something can be. Daniel spoke of the event of the Messiah and broke down something that actually happen and you can't see that. The mist of the week is a literal week concerning the Messiah. The animal sacrifices Jesus cause to cease, the veil in the temple rent from top to bottom. I show you that. Daniel told you that! The other weeks and years Daniels talks about is another time frame, before Daniel time and after. That's why I didn't quote the other parts of Daniel.

You don't believe Jesus was in the grave for three days and three nights, you don't believe what Daniel prophecy, concerning the Messiah. Those two are main ingredients to the sign Jesus gave, three days and three nights, as the prophet Jonas. Once a person start throwing parts of the book out, or don't believe this or that, then what's left.

 

[Bro.T]

Those with weak arguments always fall back on ad hominems

I don't recall you getting me three day and three nights from Good Friday to Sunday Morning!
So a weak argument is all I got from you! All you had to say is I can't bro.T. But that pride of yours is what's holding you back.

 

[prodromos]

Once a person start throwing parts of the book out, or don't believe this or that, then what's left.

You stand self accused. You ignore the multiple times Jesus said He would rise ON the third day