Evolution or Intelligent Design?

[Speedwell]

Um ... no.God took the credit for it -- in writing.

But what did He actually do?

 

[VirOptimus]

Um ... no.God took the credit for it -- in writing.

No god(s) wrote anything in the bible, its all humans doing the writing.

 

[AV1611VET]

But what did He actually do?

Eventually, He did this:

Exodus 12:12c ... and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

His ten plagues were not just random plagues; they were aim at specific deities.

 

[AV1611VET]

No god(s) wrote anything in the bible, its all humans doing the writing.

Someone needs a course in Amanuensis 101, doesn't he?

 

[VirOptimus]

Someone needs a course in Amanuensis 101, doesn't he?

No I dont.

Its a fact humans wrote the bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

No I dont.

Its a fact humans wrote the bible.

 

[VirOptimus]

And? I know christians believe the bible is inspired by god but its still written by humans.

 

[Frank Robert]

Ex 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.
Ex 8:32 And Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also, neither would he let the people go.
Ex 9:34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
Ex 10:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

This is the way it's been explained to me:

Pharaoh hardened his own heart, but at times, he softened up, hoping the Israelites would stay.

God knew they would be eventually wiped out, so He just forced Pharaoh's hand.

That even creates more problems. Why would a God outside of time need to rush things?

 

[AV1611VET]

That even creates more problems. Why would a God outside of time need to rush things?

Why don't you just let my point soak in for awhile, so you'll understand why we don't agree that God was punishing Pharaoh; before you move on to something else and forget what we're talking about?

 

[Frank Robert]

Why don't you just let my point soak in for awhile, so you'll understand why we don't agree that God was punishing Pharaoh; before you move on to something else and forget what we're talking about?

I get the point that story is about God punishing Pharaoh. Do you get the point that at least by human fairness one does not force someone to do something and then punish him for doing it?

 

[AV1611VET]

I get the point that story is about God punishing Pharaoh. Do you get the point that at least by human fairness one does not force someone to do something and then punish him for doing it?

Wow -- just wow.

Right over your head.

Let's try this again, chief.

1. Pharaoh hardened his own heart first.
2. Then he softened up, hoping to kill the Jews according to his own government program.
3. God intervened and forced Pharaoh's hand.

Had God not done that, Pharaoh would have let them go, then gone after them and brought them back, then let them go, then brought them back, then let them go ... (rinse and repeat).

Read Pharaoh's responses:

Ex 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness.
2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.

Followed by:

Ex 8:28 And Pharaoh said, I will let you go, that ye may sacrifice to the LORD your God in the wilderness; only ye shall not go very far away: intreat for me.

Followed by:

Ex 9:28 Intreat the LORD ( for it is enough ) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer.

That lie was followed by:

Ex 10:11 Not so: go now ye that are men, and serve the LORD; for that ye did desire. And they were driven out from Pharaoh's presence.

Followed by:

Ex 10:24 And Pharaoh called unto Moses, and said, Go ye, serve the LORD; only let your flocks and your herds be stayed: let your little ones also go with you.

God finally put an end to this charade once and for all.

 

[Frank Robert]

What would you look for? pop cans strewn about? bags and tents left behind?

You think the Amalekites (elite desert warriors) just stood around and let that go?

I've used this example before:

Suppose I traipse through your back yard and leave pop cans and other stuff behind?

A week later, would they still be there?

According to the story ~600,000 men and their families wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. That well over a million people would leave no archeological traces is an impossibility.

Egyptian written records date back to 3000BC, yet there are no written recordings of an Exodus of over a million people or the numerous plagues, or deaths of the first born children or the destruction of their army.

 

[AV1611VET]

According to the story ~600,000 men and their families wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. That well over a million people would leave no archeological traces is an impossibility.

Egyptian written records date back to 3000BC, yet there are no written recordings of an Exodus of over a million people or the numerous plagues, or deaths of the first born children or the destruction of their army.

So I take it you'll agree with me that there is no evidence in the Wilderness of the Jews being there?

In other words, you're looking in Egypt for evidence of something in the Sinai?

 

[Frank Robert]

Wow -- just wow.

Right over your head.

Let's try this again, chief.

1. Pharaoh hardened his own heart first.

The Bible is crystal clear. Do you believe God word or man's words.

10 Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh, but the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go out of his country.

 

[Frank Robert]

So I take it you'll agree with me that there is no evidence in the Wilderness of the Jews being there?

In other words, you're looking in Egypt for evidence of something in the Sinai?

If they were wondering in the Wilderness why would be archaeologic evidence in Egypt?

If there were evidence of the exodus in Egypt it would be a written record of the over a million people leaving, of the plagues of the death of the innocent first borne children and of the destruction of the Army.

It is a nice myth aside the myth of Noah's ark.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible is crystal clear. Do you believe God word or man's words.

Have a nice day, Frank.

You're not even listening.

 

[Astrid]

The Bible is crystal clear. Do you believe God word or man's words.

Crystal clear to all 40,000 sects with different
ideas of what it says.

I don't believe anyone has inerrant reading powers.

 

[AV1611VET]

If there were evidence of the exodus in Egypt it would be a written record of the over a million people leaving, of the plagues of the death of the innocent first borne children and of the destruction of the Army.

Really?

What's this?

A math book?

 

[Astrid]

If they were wondering in the Wilderness why would be archaeologic evidence in Egypt?

If there were evidence of the exodus in Egypt it would be a written record of the over a million people leaving, of the plagues of the death of the innocent first borne children and of the destruction of the Army.

It is a nice myth aside the myth of Noah's ark.

Mixed messages though.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't believe anyone has inerrant reading powers.

Unless, of course, they're reading Darwin's, The Preservation of Favoured Races ... right?