Contraception is moral

VirOptimus

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Abortion has no place in a mature civi,ized
society.
It exists now in an ugly and tragic balancing
act between competing evils.

Maybe maybe society will improve to
where abortion is unknown, and every child
has optimal conditions for their childhood.

Can always dream.
I dont belive in "evil", that is an religious term.

My point stands.
 
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Estrid

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I dont belive in "evil", that is an religious term.

My point stand.

As if I am a religious person doing some ideology.

"Evil' is a common and useful word in English.
"An evil odor " " an evil grin"
It is not a religious term per se.
Even this esl student knows that much.

But maybe you can help out with the meaning of
"point stand". What is a point stand?
 
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Speedwell

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Not sure where you are coming from, as in
how you could derive such a question from
anything I said, but, that would be barbaric
in the extreme as I trust you know, unless you
are one of those talibans.
That's what the "pro-life" movement stands for in this country. No measures which would reduce abortion--contraception, comprehensive sex ed, expanded pre-natal services for the poor, etc. are to be tolerated. Taking action to limit abortion death without punishing the woman in some way is not on the table.
 
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VirOptimus

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As if I am a religious person doing some ideology.

"Evil' is a common and useful word in English.
"An evil odor " " an evil grin"
It is not a religious term per se.
Even this esl student knows that much.

But maybe you can help out with the meaning of
"point stand". What is a point stand?

I should be "point stands".
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Possibly on the ground but at policy level it’s a silly Christian thing about sex being bad (for women).

Uppity women having consequence free sex is bad for..... reasons.
Well as an atheist I have no religious basis for being anti abortion. However, when I was a Christian my experience was that most people did not think sex was bad for women specifically. They believed all sex outside marriage is bad for a man or woman. I just don't think your stereotypes are helpful to the discussion.
 
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Estrid

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That's what the "pro-life" movement stands for in this country. No measures which would reduce abortion--contraception, comprehensive sex ed, expanded pre-natal services for the poor, etc. are to be tolerated. Taking action to limit abortion death without punishing the woman in some way is not on the table.

I am not in your country, I've nothing to do with
the American pro life movement or their religion.

If you disagree with what I said then address that,
don't talk to me as if I need lessons to bring me out
of some American cult-svp!
 
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Estrid

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I should be "point stands".

As should "I" be "It". Just giving you a hard time there. :D

But was that your notion of a substantive reply?

I don't even know what point you think stands in opposition
to anything I said.
 
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NxNW

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I'm anti abortion in almost all circumstances and I'm definitely not anti contraception. That would be ridiculous and make no sense at all imo.

What are your thoughts on the legality of birth control pills vs the morning after pill?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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No matter what they belive it ends up being about controling and punishing women.
This sentence makes no sense. You are saying that no matter what they believe they really believe in controlling women? How can you possibly know this?

Anti-abortion has no place in modern society.
I can say the same for abortion. How does this further the conversation? Can you talk about abortion without making comments about the opposition as they are anti women and such?
 
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Estrid

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This sentence makes no sense. You are saying that no matter what they believe they really believe in controlling women? How can you possibly know this?

I can say the same for abortion. How does this further the conversation? Can you talk about abortion without making comments about the opposition as they are anti women and such?
Seriously. Controlling, oppressing women has been going on
like forever.
There's more than enough real issues there's no need to invent any!
 
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VirOptimus

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This sentence makes no sense. You are saying that no matter what they believe they really believe in controlling women? How can you possibly know this?

I can say the same for abortion. How does this further the conversation? Can you talk about abortion without making comments about the opposition as they are anti women and such?

There isnt much to further.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Seriously. Controlling, oppressing women has been going on
like forever.
There's more than enough real issues there's no need to invent any!
I am not at all dismissing the oppression of women. I am simply saying that there are reasons to be anti abortion that have nothing to do with oppressing women. They want to paint the opposition as extreme so they can just dismiss us.
 
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Speedwell

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I am not in your country, I've nothing to do with
the American pro life movement or their religion.

If you disagree with what I said then address that,
don't talk to me as if I need lessons to bring me out
of some American cult-svp!
Just describing the local impediments to ending abortion by achieving your goal of a mature society. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence by assuming you are ignorant of the scope and power of right-wing religious extremists in this country.
 
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Estrid

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Just describing the local impediments to ending abortion by achieving your goal of a mature society. I didn't mean to insult your intelligence by assuming you are ignorant of the scope and power of right-wing religious extremists in this country.
Its all good.
The obstacles between here and now, and my dream of
civilized life in the future are of course much deeper n wider then
posed by any American group, alas.
Maybe in 200 years?
 
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Speedwell

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I am not at all dismissing the oppression of women. I am simply saying that there are reasons to be anti abortion that have nothing to do with oppressing women. They want to paint the opposition as extreme so they can just dismiss us.
Of course there are, and there are many who oppose abortion who are not interested in oppressing women. But it seems that we are mostly discussing right-wing Christian abortion opponents who are interested in re-imposing their strict gender roles on society as a whole and using these other's aversion to abortion to do it.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Of course there are, and there are many who oppose abortion who are not interested in oppressing women. But it seems that we are mostly discussing right-wing Christian abortion opponents who are interested in re-imposing their strict gender roles on society as a whole and using these other's aversion to abortion to do it.
Well maybe. But I think that ship has sailed. They lost. There are definitely right wing extremists out there but I don't think they are in the majority by any means.
 
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Estrid

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I am not at all dismissing the oppression of women. I am simply saying that there are reasons to be anti abortion that have nothing to do with oppressing women. They want to paint the opposition as extreme so they can just dismiss us.

Us v them, nothing to do with, opposition, dismjss...

Prohibition of abortion at one end, forced at the
other, both are used to, yes, control women.
Denial of that would be as hallucinatpry as it is to say
anti abortion is never about control.

I didn't notice anyone taking either extreme.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Us v them, nothing to do with, opposition, dismjss...

Prohibition of abortion at one end, forced at the
other, both are used to, yes, control women.
Denial of that would be as hallucinatpry as it is to say
anti abortion is never about control.
When did I say it is never about control? I am saying there are reasons that don't have the goal of oppressing and controlling women.

I didn't notice anyone taking either extreme.
Well there have been people assuming the anti abortionists would punish the woman including the death penalty for having an abortion. That is extreme and baseless for most anti abortionists.
 
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