In Australia Vic Government trying to pass laws that criminalise preaching

Confused-by-christianity

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Evangelicals believe the Biblical understanding of sexuality
You can't just assume everyone knows what you mean here. Christians differ in what they think is the biblical understanding.
 
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ken777

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Did i say that Jacinta Price was a racist? No, I didn't. Yet you stuck it out there.
Did i think for one second you would be honest about that? No, I didn't
I did not say you thought Jacinta Price was a racist - I asked the question - it's a good idea to check the punctuation as well as the words my impulsive friend.
Still waiting for the false statements you referred to in that previous post.
 
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ken777

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You can't just assume everyone knows what you mean here. Christians differ in what they think is the biblical understanding.
well perhaps I should have said "traditional Biblical understanding" for the sake of clarity then
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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There was no embellishment - those things are crucial aspects of the situation - if anything it was 'under-embellishment' - this has been a long thread and it should be safe to assume people will read up some of the previous comments to get the context of what is being said.
You said 2 conditions need to be met: 1) evangelical pastor, 2) Believe ....( x ) about God = Possible 10 years jail.
That turned out to be untrue as stated.
 
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SilverBear

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I never suggested adoption was always wrong. That would depend very much on the reasons a same sex couple are seeking to adopt, how stable they are, could they really cope with needs of a young child, are there other family members who can become involved - I think the rules should be as strict in terms of assessment as they are for everyone else.
"[T]he LGBT lobby uses human rights vocabulary to fight against human rights, notably those of the children who, as victims of gay adoption, are turned into some kind of commodity for gays and lesbians wishing to play “family”.
 
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ken777

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You said 2 conditions need to be met: 1) evangelical pastor, 2) Believe ....( x ) about God = Possible 10 years jail.
That turned out to be untrue as stated.
It is true - they are the critical aspects that initiate the situation. Methinks you're just trying to play gotcha.
 
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SilverBear

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I agree and its increasingly the case now that therapists are careful about speaking simplistically of "cures" for anything. This why we need some clearer definitions because there is misinformation abroad and we should not be party to spreading that if we can help it. In most psychotherapy the client sets their goals - a therapist would not force someone to set goals outside the clients value or belief system. No reparative therapists as I understand the current state of that discipline try to force any change of sexual orientation. There is a huge world of difference between converting someone and supporting someone at a particular stage in their life, supporting them in their own explorations of what is or isn't possible for them, by not invalidating a persons hopes or aspirations.

Reparative therapy as I understand it is no different to other psychotherapies which aim "to improve an individual's well-being and mental health, to resolve or mitigate troublesome behaviors, beliefs, compulsions, thoughts, or emotions, and to improve relationships and social skills."

the APA position statement on reparative therapy:

Whereas societal ignorance and prejudice about same-gender sexual orientation put some gay, lesbian, bisexual and questioning individuals at risk for presenting for "conversion" treatment due to family or social coercion and/or lack of information (Haldeman, 1994);
Whereas children and youth experience significant pressure to conform with sexual norms, particularly from their peers;
Whereas children and youth often lack adequate legal protection from coercive treatment;
Whereas some mental health professionals advocate treatments of lesbian, gay, and bisexual people based on the premise that homosexuality is a mental disorder (e.g., Socarides et al, 1997);
Whereas the ethics, efficacy, benefits, and potential for harm of therapies that seek to reduce or eliminate same-gender sexual orientation are under extensive debate in the professional literature and the popular media (Davison, 1991; Haldeman, 1994; Wall Street Journal, 1997);
Therefore be it resolved that APA affirms the following principles with regard to treatments to alter sexual orientation:
That homosexuality is not a mental disorder (American Psychiatric Association, 1973); and
That psychologists "do not knowingly participate in or condone unfair discriminatory practices" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Principle D, p. 1600); and
That "in their work-related activities, psychologists do not engage in unfair discrimination based on...sexual orientation" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 1.10, p. 1601); and
That "in their work-related activities, psychologists respect the rights of others to hold values, attitudes, and opinions that differ from their own." (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 1.09; p. 1601); and
That "psychologists...respect the rights of individuals to privacy, confidentiality, self-determination and autonomy" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Principle D, p. 1599); and
That "psychologists are aware of cultural, individual and role differences, including those due to...sexual orientation" and "try to eliminate the effect on their work of biases based on [such] factors" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Principle D, pp. 1599-1600); and
That "where differences of...sexual orientation ...significantly affect psychologist's work concerning particular individuals or groups, psychologists obtain the training, experience, consultation, or supervision necessary to ensure the competence of their services, or they make appropriate referrals" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 1.08, p. 1601); and
That "psychologists do not make false or deceptive statements concerning...the scientific or clinical basis for ... their services," (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 3.03(a), p. 1604); and
That "psychologists attempt to identify situations in which particular interventions...may not be applicable ...because of factors such as...sexual orientation" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 2.04 (c), p. 1603); and
That "psychologists obtain appropriate informed consent to therapy or related procedures" [which] "generally implies that the [client or patient] (1) has the capacity to consent, (2) has been informed of significant information concerning the procedure, (3) has freely and without undue influence expressed consent, and (4) consent has been appropriately documented" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, Standard 4.02(a), 1992, p. 1605); and
"When persons are legally incapable of giving informed consent, psychologists obtain informed permission from a legally authorized person, if such substitute consent is permitted by law" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 4.02(b), p. 1605);.
That "psychologists (1) inform those persons who are legally incapable of giving informed consent about the proposed interventions in a manner commensurate with the persons' psychological capacities, (2) seek their assent to those interventions, and (3) consider such persons' preferences and best interests" (Ethical Principles of Psychologists and Code of Conduct, American Psychological Association, 1992, Standard 4.02(c), p. 1605); and
That the American Psychological Association "urges all mental health professionals to take the lead in removing the stigma of mental illness that has long been associated with homosexual orientation" (Conger, 1975, p. 633); and
Therefore be it further resolved that the American Psychological Association opposes portrayals of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth and adults as mentally ill due to their sexual orientation and supports the dissemination of accurate information about sexual orientation, and mental health, and appropriate interventions in order to counteract bias that is based in ignorance or unfounded beliefs about sexual orientation.
 
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SilverBear

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I did not say you thought Jacinta Price was a racist - I asked the question - it's a good idea to check the punctuation as well as the words my impulsive friend.
Still waiting for the false statements you referred to in that previous post.
and if you were to be asked if you still sexually molest children would you pretend that it was just a question?
Of course you wouldn't and the implication that you have sexually molest children would be a lie....or is it not a lie when you play games like that?
 
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SilverBear

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I did not say you thought Jacinta Price was a racist - I asked the question - it's a good idea to check the punctuation as well as the words my impulsive friend.
Still waiting for the false statements you referred to in that previous post.
Oh and i'm not your friend. A friend would never lie, in question form or or otherwise, that I called anyone a racist.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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It is true - they are the critical aspects that initiate the situation. Methinks you're just trying to play gotcha.
I was actually playing benefit of the doubt - I wanted to hear what your viewpoint was. But, you have lost me now.

I'm not buying that evangelical pastor's are being chased because they believe God can change someone.

I'm more persuaded that some people are abusing others and using the bible to do it - and the law wishes to stop that.

I don't think you're being truthful or honest. I can overlook an error or something said in the heat of the moment, or even a genuine search for truth that ends up wrong. I cannot overlook outright dishonesty - that's what I believe you're argument peddled.

I think you're attempting to frame your side as martyr (an awful slap in the face to those who really did suffer horrors). I don't think your side are martyrs or victims - but - it seems to me you're pretending to be.

This is literally hypocrisy (wearing a mask ((of victim/martyr)) that hides your face).
 
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ken777

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and if you were to be asked if you still sexually molest children would you pretend that it was just a question?
Of course you wouldn't and the implication that you have sexually molest children would be a lie....or is it not a lie when you play games like that?
The question "So you are calling Jacinta Price a racist?" is in context of the ABC calling JP a racist - a lot of prestigious people thinks she is so you would have plenty of company - a bit different to the scenario you painted.
 
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ken777

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I was actually playing benefit of the doubt - I wanted to hear what your viewpoint was. But, you have lost me now.

I'm not buying that evangelical pastor's are being chased because they believe God can change someone.

I'm more persuaded that some people are abusing others and using the bible to do it - and the law wishes to stop that.
You are entitled to believe whatever you like - but you shouldn't misrepresent what I said in all the posts we exchanged. Shalom.
 
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ken777

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Am I though ??

Won't the law throw me in prison for 10 years though???
lol.jpg
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Yeah. haha.

Laughable - isn't it.

I think we should try a little harder to seek out the truth of the matter - and be honest in doing so.

No more rhetoric. No more spin. Fearless and honest search for truth.
 
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dms1972

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No, that is not my position. My position is that help has to be real help; not a pretence at help, offering the impossible through harmful methods.

Yeah I noticed you say that once or twice. But can you maybe listen once in a while to what others with a different POV are saying, they are intelligent people too and may actually know what they are talking about. It doesn't mean you have to entirely agree, or even agree at all. But it is by listening to others (and those with a different take on things) that we sometimes learn things.
 
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dms1972

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Laughable - isn't it.

I think we should try a little harder to seek out the truth of the matter - and be honest in doing so.

No more rhetoric. No more spin. Fearless and honest search for truth.

Sure go ahead and do that and if you discover anything feel free to report back. But the only way seems to be to ask questions about this legisation and what situations could trigger it of someone legally knowledgable and qualified to answer - not someone in a church or on a forums. It is the thread title that is the problem here.
 
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