In Australia Vic Government trying to pass laws that criminalise preaching

[Philip_B]

As it was you who were saying what religious free exercise (in Australia) might not cover I directed the question to you.

I don't know for sure what would happen in event of a test case. Ken may be correct in that religious free exercise could be said to cover if not all yet some instances of christian pastoral care in which the individual seeking help is a christian, doesn't identify as gay, lesbian etc. and wants prayer for release from homosexual desires. Perhaps a case might be made that feelings by themselves do not constitute an orientation or identity. I don't think one can pray for someone to be converted from homosexual to hetrosexual - I think its better to just discern by pastoral conversation and spiritual gifts if the person has unmet emotional needs, and or barriers and pray about those, asking them to repent from any overt sin. I don't know however what way asking someone to repent from homosexual sin would be viewed under this law?

I think it would be most unlikely that Ken would be correct in thinking an appeal to the High Court would find the law unconstitutional. There are aspects which get confused between what we are and what we do, both the the matter of Homosexuality and Christianity. There is now way in which this law might be said to prevent you from being Christian. If the essence of Christianity is to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, we might observe our commonly accepted records of Jesus ministry on earth, and discover that he did not discuss Same Sex Attraction, though he did speak in favour of conventional marriage and of the need to try and stay true, honourable and faithful.

How many therapists does it take the change a lightbulb?

One, but the lightbulb has to want to change.​

 

[dms1972]

I think it would be most unlikely that Ken would be correct in thinking an appeal to the High Court would find the law unconstitutional. There are aspects which get confused between what we are and what we do, both the the matter of Homosexuality and Christianity. There is now way in which this law might be said to prevent you from being Christian. If the essence of Christianity is to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, we might observe our commonly accepted records of Jesus ministry on earth, and discover that he did not discuss Same Sex Attraction, though he did speak in favour of conventional marriage and of the need to try and stay true, honourable and faithful.

How many therapists does it take the change a lightbulb?

One, but the lightbulb has to want to change.​

I agree re your last two lines and that is why therapists cannot guarantee a person will change. It depends upon God's timing and means and also on an individual being willing to allow God to work in their lives in these areas.

I really think when the Apostle said "Such were some of ye..." 1 Cor 6:11 - there is a range of possibility left open - for some they are no-longer practicing homosexuals. But remember a "gay identity" was not heard of in those days and in Greek culture men who practiced homosexuality often had wives (I have found William Barclay - Plain Man's Guide to Ethics useful as an overview of the situation in those days).

Nevertheless there are more testimonies these days of people coming out of homosexuality into hetro-normativity, therefore those who suggest homosexuality is immutible, or that God made them that way are ignoring evidence to the contrary. There are instances of course of others not being helped to the same degree, but its not always clear why that is - it could be to do with motivation or it could be some other reason, and there are no doubt more difficult cases.

Moberly writes : "It begs the question to say that 'God must have deliberately designed them that way' The homosexual condition as it is is not 'in the image of God' as is sometimes suggested by homosexuals. God did not create homosexuals as homosexuals, but as men and women who are intended to attain psychological maturity in their gender identity...It is precisely because God has designed man and woman to be 'in His image' that he wishes to deal with all that falls short of this, and to fulfill the normal process of growth."