Why Am I Eating a Pork Chop?

[The Liturgist]

I was beginning to wonder of a Kosher diet was a part of Eastern Orthodoxy.

It wasn’t. Ever. The Greek converts ate shellfish and pork from the beginning. The only historic taboo, which was later waved, was on foodstuffs made from congealed blood, like the staple of Full English Breakfasts, black pudding. This is no longer universally observed, as “blood sausages” are quite popular in much of Eastern Europe.

 

[Servus]

You realize of course that this has nothing to do with the OP. If you want to discuss the SDA, there are other places to do so.

Much of this thread was SDA members arguing their doctrinal views with non-SDA members.

 

[Servus]

It wasn’t. Ever. The Greek converts ate shellfish and pork from the beginning. The only historic taboo, which was later waved, was on foodstuffs made from congealed blood, like the staple of Full English Breakfasts, black pudding. This is no longer universally observed, as “blood sausages” are quite popular in much of Eastern Europe.

I didn't think it was, which is one of the reasons why I found his responses confusing. I've been increasingly interested in Eastern Orthodoxy perspective since its roots go back to the beginning and is still pretty consistent with original Christianity as far as I know so far.

When it comes to the topic of this thread, the question is, did Christians stick to a Kosher diet for the first, second, third centuries? If eating pork wasn't allowed in Christianity until way later on like in the fourth, fifth century then I would question why there was a sudden change and if we should go back to a Kosher diet. However I don't think Gentile Christians ever adhered to a Kosher diet from day one.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Also you never clarified which Eastern Orthodox jurisdiction you belong to, or how you reconcile Eastern Orthodoxy’s consumption of pork and shellfish with your apparent position.

My ONLY position in OUR discussion was that the verses posted could NOT be used to prove the approval of consumption of non-kosher foods because those scriptures were being used out of context...it had nothing to do with monks from Athos, my Orthodox jurisdiction nor anything else...

 

[The Liturgist]

My ONLY position in OUR discussion was that the verses posted could NOT be used to prove the approval of consumption of non-kosher foods because those scriptures were being used out of context...it had nothing to do with monks from Athos, my Orthodox jurisdiction nor anything else...

Ok, I see your point.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

IThe only historic taboo, which was later waved, was on foodstuffs made from congealed blood, like the staple of Full English Breakfasts, black pudding. This is no longer universally observed, as “blood sausages” are quite popular in much of Eastern Europe.

I do not think that is true...The EO still adhere to the requirements in ACTS although most may not follow it as you said

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I was beginning to wonder of a Kosher diet was a part of Eastern Orthodoxy.

That would be difficult unless we have a bunch of Rabbis on payroll...

 

[Servus]

That would be difficult unless we have a bunch of Rabbis on payroll...

Two of my favorite EO teachers Lazar Puhalo and Kallistos Ware kinda look like Rabbis to me

But seriously, if there is no scripture that approves the consumption of non-kosher foods, why has the consumption of non-kosher foods always been allowed in Orthodox Christianity? Just wondering.

 

[Strong in Him]

And that matters why? My point still stands...

It matters because Scripture says that Jesus declared all foods to be clean.
They were kept in the Bible; the compilers, and the Holy Spirit, did not see fit to remove them.
A new Christian, or an unbeliever, reading those words would be correct in thinking that that's what Jesus said and meant.

 

[Strong in Him]

There is no interpretation, it says what it means within the context of the passage. OK so you agree with me then...

No.

I don't spend my time "proving" Christians shouldn't eat pork, but if I did my main argument would be the chapters in Exodus and Leviticus.
As you are concerned about context, you should know that these laws were given to those people at that time. If you can show me where Jesus told Gentile believers "now that you follow me, have eternal life and have been set free, make sure you read the OT and put yourself under bondage to those laws", I'll read it. If you can show me where the apostles went and preached to Gentile converts "Jesus saves and sets you free, but here are the food laws you have to keep", I'll believe it.
But it's not there.

In all my 40 + years as a Christian, the Holy Spirit has shown and taught me many things and convicted me of many sins - yet eating pork/bacon has never been one of them.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It matters because Scripture says that Jesus declared all foods to be clean.
They were kept in the Bible; the compilers, and the Holy Spirit, did not see fit to remove them.
A new Christian, or an unbeliever, reading those words would be correct in thinking that that's what Jesus said and meant.

Hello SIH,

Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek it is added in to some bible translations by the translators. It does not exist and is a mistranslation of the Greek as the context to v19 is to washing of hands, cups and pots not to it is now ok to eat unclean foods and break Gods dietary laws. Jesus target audience was to Jews who knew the dietary laws and did not teach people to break them. As posted earlier Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" that is added in by the translators and not written in the original Greek which is why in the translations it is in brackets. There is no Jesus "declared all foods clean" in the Greek. Look at the Greek here

God bless

 

[Servus]

From the original Greek text

You wrote "aphedroma" instead of "aphedrona" which was simply a typo, but that's why I couldn't find it at first.

Aphedrona (aphedrón) is #856 in Strong's Concordance, which is the reference I was looking for.

 

[Servus]

Hello SIH,

Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek it is added in to some bible translations by the translators. It does not exist and is a mistranslation of the Greek as the context to v19 is to washing of hands, cups and pots not to it is now ok to eat unclean foods and break Gods dietary laws. Jesus target audience was to Jews who knew the dietary laws and did not teach people to break them. As posted earlier Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" that is added in by the translators and not written in the original Greek which is why in the translations it is in brackets. There is no Jesus "declared all foods clean" in the Greek. Look at the Greek here

God bless

The copiers of the Alexandrian text added it in, so it seems obvious that it was from early Christian doctrine. And has remained as Christian doctrine. Neither the Eastern Greek nor the Western Latin nor the Protestant reformation churches ever practiced OT food laws. With the exception of the SDA denomination of Protestantism which began in the 19th century.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The copiers of the Alexandrian text added it in for clarification. So it seems obvious that was from early Christian theology. And has remained in Christian theology. Neither the Eastern Greek nor the Western Latin nor the Prodestant churchs ever practiced OT food laws. With the exception of the SDA denomination of Prodestantism.

No. It is not in the original Greek and is a mistranslation as already stated. Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek it is added in to some bible translations by the translators. It does not exist and is a mistranslation of the Greek as the context to v19 is to washing of hands, cups and pots not to it is now ok to eat unclean foods and break Gods dietary laws. Jesus target audience was to Jews who knew the dietary laws and did not teach people to break them. As posted earlier Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" that is added in by the translators and not written in the original Greek which is why in the translations it is in brackets. There is no Jesus "declared all foods clean" in the Greek and does not make sense to the chapter context, target audience (Jews) and topic of conversation (washing of hands, pots and cups). Look at the original Greek text here.

 

[Servus]

No. It is not in the original Greek and is a mistranslation as already stated. Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek it is added in to some bible translations by the translators. It does not exist and is a mistranslation of the Greek as the context to v19 is to washing of hands, cups and pots not to it is now ok to eat unclean foods and break Gods dietary laws. Jesus target audience was to Jews who knew the dietary laws and did not teach people to break them. As posted earlier Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" that is added in by the translators and not written in the original Greek which is why in the translations it is in brackets. There is no Jesus "declared all foods clean" in the Greek and does not make sense to the chapter context, target audience (Jews) and topic of conversation (washing of hands, pots and cups). Look at the original Greek text here.

NU-text sets off the final phrase as Mark’s comment in 7:19.

NU-text: These variations from the traditional text generally represent the Alexandrian or Egyptian type of text [the oldest, but sometimes questioned text]. They are found in the Critical Text published in the Twenty-sixth edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (N) and in the United Bible Society's third edition (U), hence the acronym "NU-text."

But the main point is that adhering to OT food laws has never existed in the Eastern Othodox or Roman Catholic or Protestant reformation churches. With the exception of the SDA denomination of Protestantism which began in the 19th century.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

NU-text sets off the final phrase as Mark’s comment in 7:19.

NU-text: These variations from the traditional text generally represent the Alexandrian or Egyptian type of text [the oldest, but sometimes questioned text]. They are found in the Critical Text published in the Twenty-sixth edition of the Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament (N) and in the United Bible Society's third edition (U), hence the acronym "NU-text."

But the main point is that adhering to OT food laws has never existed in the Eastern Othodox or Roman Catholic or Protestant reformation churches. With the exception of the SDA denomination of Protestantism which began in the 19th century.

No! Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek. Repeating yourself over and over when you have been shown to be in error does not make what you have stated magically come true. There is no Jesus "declared all foods clean" in the Greek and does not make does not make sense to the chapter context, target audience (Jews) and topic of conversation (washing of hands, pots and cups). Look at the original Greek text here.

 

[Strong in Him]

Hello SIH,

Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek it is added in to some bible translations by the translators. It does not exist and is a mistranslation of the Greek as the context to v19 is to washing of hands, cups and pots not to it is now ok to eat unclean foods and break Gods dietary laws. Jesus target audience was to Jews who knew the dietary laws and did not teach people to break them.

The point remains that dietary laws were not taught, nor commanded, to Gentiles who followed Jesus.

If you're talking about keeping the law, that means all of it - from animal sacrifices, stoning to death anyone who does not keep the Sabbath and avoiding people with skin diseases, right down to the more obscure ones; not wearing clothes of mixed fibres, rising in the presence of "the aged" and only planting your field with one type of crop.
Funnily enough, these get overlooked. And if anyone does point them out, the response is to explain why they don't need to be kept.
But mention pork/ham/bacon and people act as though the 8th deadly sin had been unearthed.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The point remains that dietary laws were not taught, nor commanded, to Gentiles who followed Jesus.

If you're talking about keeping the law, that means all of it - from animal sacrifices, stoning to death anyone who does not keep the Sabbath and avoiding people with skin diseases, right down to the more obscure ones; not wearing clothes of mixed fibres, rising in the presence of "the aged" and only planting your field with one type of crop.
Funnily enough, these get overlooked. And if anyone does point them out, the response is to explain why they don't need to be kept.
But mention pork/ham/bacon and people act as though the 8th deadly sin had been unearthed.

Who says? That was not the point of the post and the Greek meaning of the scripture shared with you showing that the scripture you were using in Mark 7:19 does not say what you were claiming it says. All the Word of God is taught to Gentile believers who are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27 according to God's Word *2 Timothy 3:16.

 

[Servus]

No! Jesus did not "declare all foods clean" at all *Mark 7:19. "Declared all food clean" is not written in the Greek. Repeating yourself over and over when you have been shown to be in error does not make what you have stated magically come true. There is no Jesus "declared all foods clean" in the Greek and does not make does not make sense to the chapter context, target audience (Jews) and topic of conversation (washing of hands, pots and cups). Look at the original Greek text here.

You're the one repeating yourself as if operating in default script mode.

Although I have repeated; that adhering to OT food laws has never existed in the Eastern Othodox or Roman Catholic or Protestant reformation churches. With the exception of the SDA denomination of Protestantism which began in the 19th century - because you seem to be avoiding that fact.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Two of my favorite EO teachers Lazar Puhalo and Kallistos Ware kinda look like Rabbis to me

It's a beard thing