STOP EXTREME GUN CONTROL BILL H.R. 127

[loveofourlord]

Given all the self defense and fighting badguys with guns fetishsizing there is in the US I would actually like to know how many shootings and deaths a year actually involve people doing self defense of themselves or others vs how many just get shot.

 

[loveofourlord]

Is that some secret code or something? I have no idea what you are talking about.

it's about the whole inssurection and such. Were supposed to believe that gun rights people would suddenly go out there and start a war over gun control, yet many of them believe the US elections were stolen by biden that many of them claim is a Chinese spy agent taking control and they couldn't even bother more then a few hours of protests?

The right likes to talk big, but the second they actually run into any real opposition they run off scared.

Sides nothing makes me think gun control is needed more then people yelling, "If you take my guns I will kill you all."

 

[Paulos23]

In all seriousness, I recommend reading up on the criminal mind in the US. And the actual outcome of victims pointing a loaded weapon at a perp caught in the act.

And the "wild west" was not as wild as many people think. I've read that more men died of snake bite than in gun fights. The way to reduce gun violence is to deal with crime head on. i.e. don't allow criminals to avoid conviction, and don't allow convicted criminals to walk the streets.

It's called "tough love." Violence blossoms in a free-for-all. We don't need any more laws. We simply need to enforce the laws we have. And remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Their job is not to protect you. That's YOUR job. Their job is to find out who did it if you didn't do YOUR job.

We have tried that, and it has lead to overcrowded prisons and people just becoming harder criminals.

Sorry, tough love doesn't work on its own. You have to give them a path out, and most of what you want to do close those.

 

[loveofourlord]

Our guns at the same time keep us safe from government tyranny and put us in mortal danger of it if there is a record of us having them.

yes...because only thing that will save you from attack helicopters, tanks, drones, and such is a ar15 held by a small proportion of the country.

 

[Direct Driver]

No, just pointing out that the "Gun laws don't work--just look at Chicago" argument is ridiculous.

Actually, they can work if they are enforced, and people that commit crimes are convicted and actually do time.

30 years ago I used to say the problem with "rough" neighborhoods is that law enforcement chose option one, below:
1. Don't bother with crime or prosecution until something really serious was done.
2. Prosecute all criminals when there is a case and it can be proven. Even shoplifting should virtually ALWAYS result in jail time.

When a culture goes with option one, A guy is caught selling drugs on the street, several times. Yet the kids in the neighborhood notice he's still dealing and he drives a nice car. Hmmm. Looks like a good lifestyle chice.

When a culture goes with option two, "Joe" is caught selling drugs on the street and goes to prison for four years. The other kids notice that Joe is in prison because he was selling drugs. Oh, and so was Bill and Frank. The other kids think that maybe this is not a good way to make money. So the neighborhood drug "boss" has a hard time recruiting kids, so he sells less. And the city drug "boss" does less business.

Not that they should not go after the bosses too, but this is a well known axiom. Heck, even child psychologists know that parents that don't discipline their kids end up with children that may be no use to society and no use to themself.

History demonstrates all of this over and over. But those who forget history are destined to repeat it.

 

[Direct Driver]

We have tried that, and it has lead to overcrowded prisons and people just becoming harder criminals.

Sorry, tough love doesn't work on its own. You have to give them a path out, and most of what you want to do close those.

I used to be in a prison ministry band, and I did see a lot of that. The fact is, that if we really do that, there will be an increase, followed by a decrease. One thing I've been in favor of for a very long time is legalizing marijuana. If people want to destroy their lives, they have the God given right to do that. The answer is not a nanny state trying to control you. It's Jesus.

I'd also like to see prisons that specialized in certain types of crime incarceration. i.e. convicted drunk drivers in their own prison, child molesters in another, drug dealers in another, etc.

But I think the reason so many are incarcerated in the US is that we don't enforce the law enough. People assume they will get away with it even when caught, because so many do.

And then they don't.

 

[loveofourlord]

How's Chicago and New Orleans. I understand they have some pretty strict gun laws.

I think if this gets serious elsewhere, we can try to reverse the second amendment. Until we do, this nonsense is really just a waste of time for everyone concerned. A more productive use of your time would be to jump off of buildings and use your mind to fly.

Regarding more gun laws, at the end of the day, we're faced with this:

View attachment 294664

Yeah too bad there isn't places near Chicago where you can buy guns then go there....dang.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Since it's sat in committee for more than month with no action and no cosponsors, I'm not sure how much people need to go bananas to stop this. Is it going anywhere?

 

[Direct Driver]

it's about the whole inssurection and such. Were supposed to believe that gun rights people would suddenly go out there and start a war over gun control, yet many of them believe the US elections were stolen by biden that many of them claim is a Chinese spy agent taking control and they couldn't even bother more then a few hours of protests?

The right likes to talk big, but the second they actually run into any real opposition they run off scared.

Sides nothing makes me think gun control is needed more then people yelling, "If you take my guns I will kill you all."

I think the two are not connected. One can entertain one and not the other, or both, or neither. Or "sort of" believe one or the other. They don't go hand in hand.

Also, the right, as far as I can see, is divided into two groups. First are the Christians. They are constrained by the grace of God. Their weapons are all about self defence from perps and the government. The second is what I call stoicists, who have more in commmon with the "non-Christian" members of the founding fathers. They may not have been Christian, but they were steeped in Christian values about right and wrong, law and order, etc.

They are more likely to be proactive - and many probably in a Timothy McVeigh way. And he didn't use guns.

 

[Direct Driver]

Since it's sat in committee for more than month with no action, I'm not sure how much people need to go bananas to stop this. Is it going anywhere?

Meh. What else are you gonna talk about in lockdown?

 

[Sparagmos]

Our guns at the same time keep us safe from government tyranny and put us in mortal danger of it if there is a record of us having them.

Our right to vote and choose our government is what keeps us safe from government tyranny. The government will always have more and bigger guns than we do.

 

[98cwitr]

No, just pointing out that the "Gun laws don't work--just look at Chicago" argument is ridiculous.

When most of the guns used in those crimes are illegally acquired, the point is rather valid.

HR127 does nothing to prevent crime via osmosis or otherwise...this is specifically targeting legal gun owners.

 

[Direct Driver]

Yeah too bad there isn't places near Chicago where you can buy guns then go there....dang.

Yeah too bad there isn't places near Chicago where you can buy guns then go there....dang.

Even illegally. That's the problem. It's not the guns. It's the character of the people. And that is not resolved by keeping them away from guns.

Kids used to bring guns with them to school with the hope of maybe bagging dinner on the way home. Yet, oddly, there were not a lot of kids getting shot. It speaks to why you don't worry about a Golden Retriever biting you but you're less inclined to try to pet a coyote. Yet they both have the same teeth.

These days we have way too many coyotes walking among us domesticated dogs. That is the heart of the problem. It's not the teeth. It's the animal.

 

[Nithavela]

Point is, history proves that which follows disarming a population is never in their best interests or for their good.

Germany currently has a "disarmed population", with gun ownership heavily limited by a persons need to own a gun, mostly either because they are sport shooters or hunters. It's been this way since the FGR was established. Nothing bad happened yet, afaik.

 

[Hans Blaster]

LOL, or you're just old

The song is older than I. I'm just a fan of Bob.

 

[Direct Driver]

No, just pointing out that the "Gun laws don't work--just look at Chicago" argument is ridiculous.

I think it's actually pretty sound, especially when you consider that cities and places with far less gun violence also have more liberal gun rights. i.e. it's not the guns that is the problem.

 

[Direct Driver]

Nothing bad happened yet, afaik.

...to you. Personally.

 

[Desk trauma]

Since it's sat in committee for more than month with no action and no cosponsors, I'm not sure how much people need to go bananas to stop this. Is it going anywhere?

It's going into every conservative fund raising email, signed into law not so much.

 

[Nithavela]

...to you. Personally.

Please educate me on what I might have missed.

 

[Hans Blaster]

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
~ C.S. Lewis

"omnipotent moral busybodies": This seems like the main demographic of this board. I'm not sure how a gun registration bill fits this.

Plus why should we care about the opinions of a writer of bad YA fiction.