Halloween and "cultural appropriation".

[Ken-1122]

No, they're not.

So how do you conclude everybody has racial bias?

 

[gaara4158]

Come around? When have I ever denied justice is different for the rich vs poor?

Post #666. “Legally? Yes!”

Meaningless to you.

And to the discussion. Unless you’re prepared to argue that the various European immigrants who are now considered “white” have a shared origin story that’s powerful enough to erase their memory of their respective old countries and mash them together as a distinct “white culture,” you’re just being a contrarian at this point.

My comment had nothing to do with comparing African American culture to African culture.

What were you comparing, then?

 

[Ken-1122]

Post #666. “Legally? Yes!”

Post #666 was about black vs white, not rich vs poor

And to the discussion. Unless you’re prepared to argue that the various European immigrants who are now considered “white” have a shared origin story that’s powerful enough to erase their memory of their respective old countries and mash them together as a distinct “white culture,” you’re just being a contrarian at this point.

I’m saying various africans from various nations brought here as slaves, their decedents of today are not mashed together as a distinct black culture.

What were you comparing, then?

Africans of the Diaspora have totally different cultures

 

[Strathos]

So how do you conclude everybody has racial bias?

Even bias from "positive" stereotypes is bias.

 

[gaara4158]

I’m saying various africans from various nations brought here as slaves, their decedents of today are not mashed together as a distinct black culture.

Then what culture are you talking about when you say you have problems with “black” culture?

 

[Ken-1122]

Even bias from "positive" stereotypes is bias.

Do you believe all racial impressions are either negative or positive; never neutral?

 

[Ken-1122]

Then what culture are you talking about when you say you have problems with “black” culture?

I have a problem with a street culture that too many black people adopt. Not all black people adopt this culture, and other races (though to a lesser degree) adopt it as well

 

[gaara4158]

I have a problem with a street culture that too many black people adopt. Not all black people adopt this culture, and other races (though to a lesser degree) adopt it as well

If it’s the street culture that’s the problem, why not look into improving the streets? We need to invest in better education and economic opportunities in the underserved/impoverished “streets” where these problematic cultures take root.

 

[Ken-1122]

If it’s the street culture that’s the problem, why not look into improving the streets? We need to invest in better education and economic opportunities in the underserved/impoverished “streets” where these problematic cultures take root.

I agree, but it seems everytime politicians try to improve the "streets" things only get worse. I think improvement needs to start in the home, it needs to start with the family. The quickest route to failure is to insist someone/something else must change before you can move foreword. We cannot afford to wait for someone else to change things, change needs to start at the individual level.

 

[gaara4158]

I agree, but it seems everytime politicians try to improve the "streets" things only get worse. I think improvement needs to start in the home, it needs to start with the family. The quickest route to failure is to insist someone/something else must change before you can move foreword. We cannot afford to wait for someone else to change things, change needs to start at the individual level.

This individualistic approach, for all of its common-sense appeal, will never succeed on a culture-altering scale without significant systemic changes. Improvement can occur in the home, but improvement is much more likely to happen when the home itself is in a better environment. We cannot wash our hands of the struggling masses living on the streets while continuing to complain about their behavior. If we share a society with them, and we want them to behave differently, it’s on us to give them incentives and opportunities to do so. The perceived failure of politicians to enact effective policy toward this end is not an excuse to stop trying.

 

[Ken-1122]

This individualistic approach, for all of its common-sense appeal, will never succeed on a culture-altering scale without significant systemic changes. Improvement can occur in the home, but improvement is much more likely to happen when the home itself is in a better environment. We cannot wash our hands of the struggling masses living on the streets while continuing to complain about their behavior. If we share a society with them, and we want them to behave differently, it’s on us to give them incentives and opportunities to do so. The perceived failure of politicians to enact effective policy toward this end is not an excuse to stop trying.

I don’t think the street culture is a result of people being poor, it is the result of bad behavior being considered cool. I know of too many black kids that come from families with money that adopt this culture because it is considered cool. Irresponsible behavior, sloppy dress, and criminal element is considered cool and improving the situation of the poor (not that it isn’t a bad idea) isn’t going to change that. This is glamorized in their music, movies, and the media. IMO This is something that can only be changed at the individual and family level, not via the government.

 

[gaara4158]

I don’t think the street culture is a result of people being poor, it is the result of bad behavior being considered cool. I know of too many black kids that come from families with money that adopt this culture because it is considered cool. Irresponsible behavior, sloppy dress, and criminal element is considered cool and improving the situation of the poor (not that it isn’t a bad idea) isn’t going to change that. This is glamorized in their music, movies, and the media. IMO This is something that can only be changed at the individual and family level, not via the government.

General rebellion and disdain for authority don’t arise in a vacuum. Like all elements of culture, they’re results of the material conditions experienced by the population. Improve the material conditions, and you’ll improve the culture. That’s not something that can be initiated at the individual level.

 

[Strathos]

Do you believe all racial impressions are either negative or positive; never neutral?

If they're neutral, then they don't count as bias. But surely you can't claim that all of your subconscious reactions to anything associated with any race are all neutral, because that would be impossible.

 

[Ken-1122]

General rebellion and disdain for authority don’t arise in a vacuum. Like all elements of culture, they’re results of the material conditions experienced by the population. Improve the material conditions, and you’ll improve the culture.

Then why are so many rich kids with all the material conditions money can afford them still seeking out this street culture?

 

[Ken-1122]

If they're neutral, then they don't count as bias. But surely you can't claim that all of your subconscious reactions to anything associated with any race are all neutral, because that would be impossible.

Why is that impossible? If it's possible with age, size, or the many other differences, why not race? Or do you feel there has to be negative/positive reactions to age and size as well?

 

[Strathos]

Why is that impossible? If it's possible with age, size, or the many other differences, why not race? Or do you feel there has to be negative/positive reactions to age and size as well?

If you've been exposed to many people in your life with any of those different traits, and/or media that portrays people with those traits in certain ways, then subconscious stereotypes will exist in your mind.

 

[Ken-1122]

If you've been exposed to many people in your life with any of those different traits, and/or media that portrays people with those traits in certain ways, then subconscious stereotypes will exist in your mind.

Most people in my life or in the media don't portray people of different size, age, or race than my own in a negative way so I do not accept at face value that I somehow have bias that I am unaware of towards such people. Perhaps this is where we will have to just agree to disagree.

 

[Strathos]

Most people in my life or in the media don't portray people of different size, age, or race than my own in a negative way so I do not accept at face value that I somehow have bias that I am unaware of towards such people. Perhaps this is where we will have to just agree to disagree.

Maybe the portrayals aren't obvious or blatant, but they are there. You yourself suggested earlier in this thread that you might assume that a tall person plays basketball, for instance. That's not inherently negative of course, but what if the person in question actually hated basketball and enjoyed, say, horseback riding instead? He might be annoyed by your assumption.

 

[gaara4158]

Then why are so many rich kids with all the material conditions money can afford them still seeking out this street culture?

Because it’s being marketed to them by professionals.

 

[Ken-1122]

Maybe the portrayals aren't obvious or blatant, but they are there. You yourself suggested earlier in this thread that you might assume that a tall person plays basketball, for instance. That's not inherently negative of course, but what if the person in question actually hated basketball and enjoyed, say, horseback riding instead? He might be annoyed by your assumption.

As long as I keep my assumptions to myself he won’t be offended now will he. Racial bias is to have a bias against someone that I feel is bad; I don’t think playing basketball is bad. An example would be, if I find the trait laziness or greed to be bad, and I were to see a Mexican person and a white person and assume the Mexican is lazy and the white person is greedy, that would be a bias. I am saying I do not make such assumptions against people based on race; not even at the unconscious level, and if you want to try to convince me that I do, you need to bring more to the table than; “trust me, everybody does it” I am too much of a skeptic to just take your word for it.