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As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election

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GoldenBoy89

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If you consider 600 million slaves living on a dollar a day, to be a good model for the US then I wish you well.
You said no one would do business with a communist country. China being among the leading economies and trade partners in the world disproves that claim. I said nothing about whether that is a good model to run a country or not.
 
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Speedwell

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So how do you explain that AG Barr, investigating the "fraud" after Pres. Trump had asked him to do it, came back and said there was no massive voter fraud. He didn't state that he didn't have enough time, or that he lacked resources (he had both the DoJ and FBI, and could select people he trusted while keeping "deep state" agents out of the investigation), he flat out stated the fraud didn't exist.

This is what people are closing their eyes to -- it isn't just the courts that ruled against the Trump campaign, or the appeals courts that upheld the lower courts rulings against the Trump campaigns (many of them judges that Trump put on the bench); it also included state law enforcement (many of them Republican controlled), Republican politicians that were running the elections (like in Georgia, where the Governor and Secretary of State were both Republican and Trump supporters (at least right up to the point they couldn't find fraud); national law enforcement, Homeland Security (also under the control of Trump with Trump appointees looking for fraud) -- it's just a huge number of groups and people, many Republican Trump supporters -- that are all saying there was no fraud that changed the results of the election.
It's impossible to keep "deep state agents" out of the investigation. Everybody is a deep state agent except for Trump and his die-hard rank and file supporters.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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No, she's not that high up the pyramid. She's just a small player, she hasn't even met the boss :)
Ah, right.

upload_2021-1-9_19-32-42.jpeg
 
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Pommer

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Well, it's been over two months now.

Is it because there is no evidence ... or that trump's legal team and voter fraud investigators are complete incompetent idiots?

You know, with being as rich as he supposedly is, trump does seem to be a real penny pincher when it comes to hiring however many lawyers and investigators it would have taken to help him keep his job and keep him out of jail. If he was so convinced there was all this evidence just floating around, he should have had hundreds of lawyers and investigators scouring the land. But, no, he merely had Rudy and Powell and Wood regurgitate rumors they gleaned off of the right wing blogosphere. trump had better hope that you are right and SOMEBODY can find all of this evidence you speak of. Otherwise he might have to skip the country to avoid jail time.
Allow me to channel my Uncle George:
“Donald J Trump is the rightful winner of the 2020 Presidential Election but the fix was in and the Deep State colluded with the Democrats to steal this victory away from the Best President this nation has ever been privileged to by ruled by. Since the Courts are also against, dear, honest Don, ‘we the people’ have been called upon to undo this vile miscarriage of justice and install Mister Trump as ‘President until further notice’!
It’s what the Founders would have wanted!”

And so on, and so forth...
 
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Strathos

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It's impossible to keep "deep state agents" out of the investigation. Everybody is a deep state agent except for Trump and his die-hard rank and file supporters.

And the latter are only exempt until they do something Trump disagrees with.
 
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driewerf

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Of course you haven't seen any evidence, were not dealing with petty thieves here. These are intelligent people with friends in high places.
The fastest way to shut down an investigation, is to do what the courts have done. Make impossible demands and then demand them to be met in impossibly quick time.
75 million people believe the election was stolen, but you're welcome to put your faith in the mainstream media.
75 million people are just parroting what right wing echo chambers are claiming. Neither these 75 million people nor these right wing echo chambers have access to the investigations, have access to the original material, have the expertise to investigate. The Mainstream Media report what election officers found who have access to all materials and have the expertise to investigate. These reports are much more coherent than what the right wing echo chambers produce.

But wait, we see no evidence because it was done by intelligent people?
What about all the affidavits then? What about the alleged videotape of suitcase from bellow a table? What about vans with extra ballots? What about pictures of alleged shredded Trump ballots?
We hear the right wing echo chambers shout for two months that there is massive evidence for fraud, and now all the sudden there is no evidence because it's done by intelligent people? Get at least your story straight.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I don't think those who are hiding the evidence are as good as hiding it, as you do. I reckon the investigators would find the evidence if they were given a bit of time and resources. But to say, you have no evidence and I won't allow you the opportunity to find it is a bit sus.
Much of the "evidence" simply does not exist. Specific claims were made and there were investigations. If the claims were true they would have found the evidence. You are simply fooling yourself if you believe that it is there. Trump lost. And in his own words "By a landslide!"
 
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Subduction Zone

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Of course you haven't seen any evidence, were not dealing with petty thieves here. These are intelligent people with friends in high places.
The fastest way to shut down an investigation, is to do what the courts have done. Make impossible demands and then demand them to be met in impossibly quick time.
75 million people believe the election was stolen, but you're welcome to put your faith in the mainstream media.
Reasonable demands were made. There was no evidence. And why do you want to insult all Republicans? Only about 40 million believe that the election was stolen.
 
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stevil

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Trump, rather than trying to stop the riot in the Capitol building or worrying about the safety of the VP or others at the Capitol, was instead trying to get Senators to delay the certification of the Electoral Votes.
Well, of course.

That was the whole reason why Trump rallied his troupes and commanded them to march on the Capitol.
He was ecstatic about the riot and was using that as leverage to get the Senators attention and to call them and finish the deal
 
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7thKeeper

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What kind of logic are you talking about, is it the type the courts are employing by making impossible demands and then saying "there you couldn't produce the evidence in a flash, so your claim must be false"

Ah, I see that you didn't provide evidence that you haven't been killing kittens and puppies when pressed about it. Therefore, according to you, it's ok to say that you have been killing kittens and puppies. Many people believe so. Tens of millions, maybe hundreds. Who know how many, I don't know. But many believe.
 
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Larniavc

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Have you ever heard of impostors,
Pull the other one. Next you’ll be saying that that Air Force officer who got herself killed was a crisis actor.

ROFLMAO
 
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Valletta

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Where are you getting that number? Not everybody who voted for Trump has bought into the "stolen election" fantasy. From what I've seen the number is more like 50M.
You can get access to them, or should be able to. Granted, you'll need to go to the states to examine them and likely need to pay a fee to recompense the state for the time they spend making them available to you, but every state -- now that the election is completed -- has a method to allow people to view the ballots and other election materials.
Let's clear up one misconception first -- affidavits are not, by definition, evidence. It is a statement made by an individual that can be used as evidence but isn't necessarily evidence. For example, I can make an affidavit that the moon is made of green cheese. Does that mean the moon is actually made of green cheese, is it any type of evidence the moon is made of green cheese? I can even use it in a court case, where I seek access to information about NASA, to expose how they are hiding the true facts about the moon. Despite my trying to use that affidavit as "evidence," it still is not evidence, it is merely a statement of how I believe the moon is made of green cheese -- and the court will ignore it, as they should. They won't hold an evidentiary hearing on that, based on the fact that I did not present any actual evidence to support my claims.

One more correction, affidavits tend not to be made "under penalty." First, in most cases the are merely notarized to show you made the statement -- that I didn't make the statement and forge your name on to it. Some of this will depend on state law. Next, even if made under oath, it doesn't stop me from lying -- much less being incorrect. People are not charged with making false affidavits, it just doesn't happen in the real world. The issue is, it is too hard to prove intent -- and the prosecutor has to prove you were lying, which is a tough standard to meet; when all you have to do is claim you must have been mistaken.



Again, go back to my example above. The court has to have sufficient reason to believe an evidentiary hearing is warranted. In the various court cases pursued by the Trump campaign, the courts found that that burden wasn't met. The court looked at and examined those affidavits you keep talking about -- yes, they were examined and were even discussed in the judges' ruling. I've posted several examples from the rulings, where a judge goes through the affidavits and explains why they are not evidence -- and that often, various affidavits contradict each other.

One example is in Arizona, where a large number of affidavits (I believe hundreds) were submitted over being told to use a Sharpie to fill out the ballot, and the ink bled through. The problem, there was no issue using Sharpies -- it was what the Maricopa County recommended for marking ballots, and it can be demonstrated they were saying that before the election and is recommended by the manufacturer of the counting machines. Additionally, they note the ballots are "offset" to ensure that, if ink bleeds through, it does not matter. So, to take those affidavits, the only thing they are evidence of is that the election was conducted properly.

I remember talking about one of the Michigan affidavits here and how the judge went through various affidavits and showed why they were not evidence of any type of "fraud" -- many merely were, again, show that the election procedures were followed (such as ballots being brought in by a back door, when that was the door that all the ballots were supposed to come in through). Seriously, go and find the judges decisions and read through them.

On top of that, the Trump campaign appealed almost all of these cases -- so if they felt there was something in the affidavits that warranted a closer look, they could order the original judge to have an evidentiary hearing. Yet, in all these cases that the Trump campaign filed, and then appealed, none of the appeals courts ever found a mistake by the original judge, that they should have had an evidentiary hearing. And, remember, many of these were judges that are not only Republican, but judges that Trump appointed to the Bench.

Of course, since the courts are not evidence enough for you, that the affidavits just aren't the evidence you think they are, let's go to the DoJ. Pres. Trump specifically requested AG Barr review the election and all the affidavites. Under Barrs direction and supervision, the FBI and DoJ both examined the affidavits. After they were done, Barr announced that there was no evidence of wide spread fraud. Now, remember, this is an individual Trumps specifically asked to investigate and that Trump has trust in -- and still talks glowingly of today.

And this is also ignoring the various local law enforcement groups, such as the Georgia Bureau of Investigation(GBI), that investigated the affidavits and "wrongdoing." Of course, none of these local/state law enforcement groups have found any wrongdoing and many of them are headed by Republicans. Then you have the various Governors and Secretaries of State that investigated, ensured procedures were followed and determined the results were true and correct -- and many of these are Republican.



I'm not aware of "counting stopped in the middle of the night in the major swing state cities." I'm aware of counting that allegedly stopped in Fulton County, Georgia -- which is merely one of the counties that make up Atlanta. There may have been another one but, from what I recall, all the others continued counting. I do know some of the smaller counties stopped counting but, since those counties tended to go for Trump, you don't seem to care about why they stopped counting.



There was a broken water main in the arena in Fulton County -- that is not in question and has been verified. Granted, it occurred in the morning and allegedly it did cause many of the counters to go home early -- from my understanding it was because they had been called in early, both to ensure no ballots were damaged by flooding caused and to make sure they remain secure, because of the water main break. And, from what I saw, the various media outlets investigated and found there wasn't really any story to report -- that they had a water main break and other issues that day.

Now, you can bring up your affidavits about how people were told they were done counting for the day. And I can see that. A large number of workers leave, so an observer asks why they are leaving; the response is "we're done counting for the day" -- the we referring to the counters that are leaving, not meant to mean that Fulton County is going to quit counting. I'll admit, I've not looked into this particular issue closely (I've mostly looked at Pennsylvania and Michigan). At the same time, I'll remidn you that the GBI specifically looked into this, it has been brought up in court cases, and the DoJ looked into it and none of them found an issue.



Why? Show many any election where the state has made all this available publicly. Then, on top of that, consider that making all of this public (beyond maybe ballots) likely will violate federal privacy laws, not to mention the expense of scanning all of this information and hosting it on the Internet.

Instead, the reporters/media have observed the original election. They were present for the recounts. They were present for the audits. And, from their own observation they didn't see any issues. They know that other Independent observers saw no real issues in the voting and counting, and they know law enforcement, both state and federal, found no issues in their investigations. On top of that, they know the people directly responsible for running a fair election -- the Governors and Secretaries of State -- found no issues and certified the election results.

I daresay this is the most scrutinized election in American History, as things stand now. And, aside from Pres. Trump (who has claimed Fraud in every election, including the one where he was elected as President, since he started running for President) and a few of his hardcore supporters, no one is seeing any evidence of fraud that would have changed the results of the election. In fact, if you believe Republican Sen. Sasse, none of the Senators (and the House members he knows of), believe there was any fraud; instead their objections were all for political reasons.

The reason people state there is no evidence of some massive election fraud is because there actually is no real evidence.
 
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Valletta

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Let's clear up one misconception first -- affidavits are not, by definition, evidence. It is a statement made by an individual that can be used as evidence but isn't necessarily evidence.
.
Once again you are incorrect. Affidavits are evidence, usually admissible evidence as the quotation from an article at LegalNature explains, but certainly evidence:
What Is An Affidavit And When Are They Used? | LegalNature
Using an Affidavit as Admissible Evidence
An affidavit is admissible evidence, although some courts may require you to testify to the affidavit or they may consider it hearsay. Since hearsay is not admissible as evidence, your affidavit may not be used for evidence if someone objects to it unless you testify. Thus, never assume that just because you signed an affidavit that it will get you out of testifying in court as a witness. Sometimes courts may have local rules that will state whether an affidavit is considered hearsay or not. Your attorney will let you know if you need an affidavit, have to testify, or if you need an affidavit and will have to testify.
 
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Valletta

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I don't think those who are hiding the evidence are as good as hiding it, as you do. I reckon the investigators would find the evidence if they were given a bit of time and resources. But to say, you have no evidence and I won't allow you the opportunity to find it is a bit sus.
The evidence of election wrongdoing is massive. There are well over a thousand affidavits, sworn under the penalty of perjury.
 
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The Ant

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The evidence of election wrongdoing is massive. There are well over a thousand affidavits, sworn under the penalty of perjury.

“This is a gross miscarriage of the process that would assure that these ballots are not fraudulent,” he said. “It’s a fraud, an absolute fraud.”

Under questioning from a federal judge in Pennsylvania on Tuesday, Mr. Giuliani made a different admission: “This is not a fraud case,” he said.

Giuliani in Public: ‘It’s a Fraud.’ Giuliani in Court: ‘This Is Not a Fraud Case.’
 
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cow451

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Of course you haven't seen any evidence, were not dealing with petty thieves here. These are intelligent people with friends in high places.
The fastest way to shut down an investigation, is to do what the courts have done. Make impossible demands and then demand them to be met in impossibly quick time.
75 million people believe the election was stolen, but you're welcome to put your faith in the mainstream media.
Did the Governor Georgia, the LT. Governor and Secretary of State commit or abet election fraud?
 
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cow451

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The evidence of election wrongdoing is massive. There are well over a thousand affidavits, sworn under the penalty of perjury.
Here’s the question you refuse, along with others making the same allegations, to answer:
Did the Governor of Georgia, LT. Governor and/or the Georgia Secretary of State commit or abet election fraud?
 
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Dan1988

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What do you mean “given the time”?? Courts and judges don’t host fishing expeditions.
I'm not sure what you mean or what your trying to imply. I'm sure your joking, but just incase your not, allow me to put you in the picture.
There's this thing called a crime, when a crime is committed the perpetrator covers his tracks just like a murderer buries the corpse in a swamp when he's finished with it.
Now when the victims relatives approach the police and tell them they know who the murderer is, the police usually investigate the suspect.
But in our case they demand to see the corpse and they demand video evidence and a full confession from the murderer and they demand all those immediately or they won't bother investigating the crime at all.
This deal may sound fair enough to you, but it smacks of corruption to me and 3.5 billion other global citizens.
 
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