As riot raged at Capitol, Trump tried to call senators to overturn election

[Dan1988]

I don't agree with anything you've said, but I would never deny you the right to express your opinion. We will never see the left and right unite and agree on anything, they are poles apart and that's OK. You can believe whatever you like, just don't impose your view on others.

The national guard was called in prior to the BLM protest at the same location. Why weren't the same precautions taken against these people? When you look at the history of folks like the proud boys or other alt right groups, they ain't any less violent...

Time for the excuses to end. It is what it is, and anyone with even an ounce of intellectual honesty can see that.

2021 storming of the United States Capitol - Wikipedia

On the morning of January 6, protesters assembled on the Ellipse for a "Save America" rally.[20][21] in which Trump, Donald Trump Jr., Rudy Giuliani, and several members of Congress addressed the crowd.[22] Trump encouraged his supporters to "fight like hell" to "take back our country" and to march towards the Capitol,[23][24] while Giuliani called for "trial by combat"[25], and Trump Jr. threatened "we're coming for you."[26]

This is all in the history books now, and history won't remember trump kindly...

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Quit the baloney. Don't parrot this "insurrection" garbage, the truth is the left has openly tolerated and too often encouraged the burning and looting of American cities using rhetoric FAR more inciteful than anything President Trump has said. Stop the hatred. The over 100,000 peaceful protesters, consisting of police officers, veterans, and God fearing people have been slandered by the left for daring to call for election honesty. How would you feel if you went to a peaceful protest and a tiny percentage of the people went crazy and acted in a similar manner--would you think it was right for all to be condemned? Attacking them and censoring them is far more of a mob-mentality insurrection than anything they even imagine.

I’m only talking about the people who ransacked and stormed the Capitol complex. That was an insurrection. People who didn’t take part in putting the Capitol on lockdown are obviously not included in my remarks. The fact is these people have been radicalized by rhetoric that comes straight from the president and his cronies. He literally told them to fight for him and to march on to the Capitol just moments before it happened. He fired them up and then left them to their own devices, returned to the White House and then did nothing while the Capitol was attacked and members of our government were forced to hide and take cover within the building. There is no question he is responsible for what happened on Wednesday and this will forever be his legacy he will be remembered for. A traitorous failure of a president.

 

[Dan1988]

Leaders are individuals who are able to sway people with words. Leaders have the ability to persuade, motivate, inspire and direct by what they say. This skill, this power is especially important in a President, a position often described as the Leader of the Free World. Since you assert that Trump lacks that skill, you are identifying him as an incompetent leader. At least we can agree about that.

I disagree with all the above, since I know for a fact that a President is not a puppet master as you would have me believe.
I believe the ordinary people vote for and support those who deliver the things which are important to them. So those who are patriotic voted for Trump and those who see themselves as global citizens vote Biden.
I refuse to believe that any patriotic American would desecrate and defile the very seat of their democracy. So we don't know who those rioters were, but they certainly weren't conservative Republicans.
Just because someone waves and American flag, doesn't make them anything. We can easily identify people by their actions, and I have never seen worse actions than that of the BLM supporters.

 

[Jimmy D]

I disagree with all the above, since I know for a fact that a President is not a puppet master as you would have me believe.
I believe the ordinary people vote for and support those who deliver the things which are important to them. So those who are patriotic voted for Trump and those who see themselves as global citizens vote Biden.
I refuse to believe that any patriotic American would desecrate and defile the very seat of their democracy. So we don't know who those rioters were, but they certainly weren't conservative Republicans.
Just because someone waves and American flag, doesn't make them anything. We can easily identify people by their actions, and I have never seen worse actions than that of the BLM supporters.

We’ll see, as more of them are prosecuted, how many were merely posing as trumpers.

I predict the answer will be zero.

Your claim is as evidence-free as trump’s ‘stop the steal’ nonsense. A sorry attempt to avoid taking responsibility by baselessly blaming others.

 

[driewerf]

Quit the baloney. Don't parrot this "insurrection" garbage, the truth is the left has openly tolerated and too often encouraged the burning and looting of American cities using rhetoric FAR more inciteful than anything President Trump has said.

Then bring "the left" before the court.
You see, the big big difference between what we are saying and what you are saying is that our allegations are laser sharp focused. Donald trump, who is a well defined and identifiable person, said things in a speech held the 6th of January 2021 in Washington, that led to riots. Here we have an individual, an act (speeching), a place, a time and direct consequences.
Vague allegations about "the left". Are just that, vague allegations.

Stop the hatred. The over 100,000 peaceful protesters,

So peaceful that the Congress in session needed to be evacuated, a shot needed to be fired and all staff and politicians needed to hunker down. So, peaceful.

consisting of police officers, veterans, and God fearing

But not fearing the law, as judging by the images.

people have been slandered by the left for daring to call for election honesty.

This needs to be labeled as a lie.
They have been slandered for the chaos, the riots and the destruction. There happened a little bit more in Washington than just asking for fair elections. Just a little bit more.

How would you feel if you went to a peaceful protest and a tiny percentage of the people went crazy and acted in a similar manner--would you think it was right for all to be condemned? Attacking them and censoring them is far more of a mob-mentality insurrection than anything they even imagine.

Judging by the many posts from the right about BLM-protests past years, there is even no need for that.

Traitor, Son of a female dog (B.....)

Patriots

 

[Dan1988]

We’ll see, as more of them are prosecuted, how many were merely posing as trumpers.

I predict the answer will be zero.

Your claim is as evidence-free as trump’s ‘stop the steal’ nonsense. A sorry attempt to avoid taking responsibility by baselessly blaming others.

We have no evidence to prove the election wasn't stolen from Trump. We will never know the truth because the courts wouldn't allow the investigators to drain the swamp.

I see your quite happy to go along with whatever the mass media says.

 

[driewerf]

We have no evidence to prove the election wasn't stolen from Trump. We will never know the truth because the courts wouldn't allow the investigators to drain the swamp.

Except for the audits the recounts etc. There are quite a few threads about that here on CF.

 

[Ophiolite]

Quit the baloney. Don't parrot this "insurrection" garbage, the truth is the left has openly tolerated and too often encouraged the burning and looting of American cities using rhetoric FAR more inciteful than anything President Trump has said.

The proposal is not to impeach an amorphous right wing, for inciteful rhetoric, but to impeach the President of the USA for such. If you wish to accuse others of using cheap debating techniques (as you did in post #14) then you would be advised to avoid the same practice.

The over 100,000 peaceful protesters, consisting of police officers, veterans, and God fearing people have been slandered by the left for daring to call for election honesty.

No. They have been questioned for continuing to doubt the integrity of the election despite the rejection of 60+ lawsuits, the majority of them thrown out by Trump appointed judges. Questioning the good sense of people adopting that position is not a slander.

How would you feel if you went to a peaceful protest and a tiny percentage of the people went crazy and acted in a similar manner--would you think it was right for all to be condemned?

Strawman argument. The condemnation is of those who invaded the Capitol and by extension those, such as yourself, who choose to defend it.

Attacking them and censoring them is far more of a mob-mentality insurrection than anything they even imagine.

Your rhetoric is not being censored here. Any verbal attack I might make on you is nothing compared with the gross violation of Capitol.

 

[Vanellus]

That's not a valid reason to impeach a president. We have had major cities burned, looting, murders, and many Democrat leaders have refused to denounce it. I feel there will be more violence once Joe gets
and the left tries to squash people's rights. But that's not a justifiable reason to impeach Biden.

In your previous post you wrote:
"the call to impeach him is all about the concern by Democrats that Trump will win the next election"
Well that's not a "valid" reason to impeach either is it. You're referring to possible underlying motivation of the Democrats.
The "valid reason" is that he was fomenting insurrection via a mob attack on the capitol. It seems he also lied (surprise, surprise) about "immediately calling out the national guard".
Maybe that was due to the bone spurs as well.

 

[Vanellus]

Apparently some papers and other goods were stolen from the Capitol by members of the mob.

 

[driewerf]

That's not a valid reason to impeach a president.

Let us see if you fare better than LostMarbles ...
Is pressuring an election official by means of bribery and threads, during a 59 minutes long call, an impeachable offence, yes or no?
Is inciting a crowd at a rally to "fight" for hindering the Senate in session an impeachable offense yes or no?

just asking for a lame duck president.

 

[Jimmy D]

We have no evidence to prove the election wasn't stolen from Trump. We will never know the truth because the courts wouldn't allow the investigators to drain the swamp.

I see your quite happy to go along with whatever the mass media says.

We have zero evidence that the election was stolen except for the claims of a notorious liar.

To believe that most of the government, thousands of members of the public, the media, the nation’s courts (up to the highest level) conspired, with no leaks and no evidence left in any form really boggles the mind. In fact, to those of us observing from the outside it appears completely ridiculous.

But trump lost right? It couldn’t possibly because a majority of folk didn’t think he did a particularly good job as president?

And yes, I do generally trust the media. Most people have the ability to discern fact from opinion in reporting. I have seen zero evidence to suggest that what they routinely report is untrue.

 

[Valletta]

In your previous post you wrote:
"the call to impeach him is all about the concern by Democrats that Trump will win the next election"
Well that's not a "valid" reason to impeach either is it. You're referring to possible underlying motivation of the Democrats.
The "valid reason" is that he was fomenting insurrection via a mob attack on the capitol. It seems he also lied (surprise, surprise) about "immediately calling out the national guard".
Maybe that was due to the bone spurs as well.

If you would just think it through, why would a president who has been urging Congress to challenge the electoral count somehow send some individuals to attack the Capitol right when Ted Cruz challenges the electoral count from Arizona. What would be the purpose? There was no attempt to hold the ground or burn the building down as left wing groups do.

 

[The Ant]

If you would just think it through, why would a president who has been urging Congress to challenge the electoral count somehow send some individuals to attack the Capitol right when Ted Cruz challenges the electoral count from Arizona. What would be the purpose? There was no attempt to hold the ground or burn the building down as left wing groups do.

Because one of the abiding characteristics of criminals, as a group, is that they are stupid!

 

[Larniavc]

Trump had no control over the actions of the rioters, he's not a puppet master.

Mr Trump is a stochastic puppet master.

 

[Larniavc]

I refuse to believe that any patriotic American would desecrate and defile the very seat of their democracy.

Which is odd because you can see it with your own eyes.

A huge red flag for motivated reasoning.

 

[driewerf]

If you would just think it through, why would a president who has been urging Congress to challenge the electoral count somehow send some individuals to attack the Capitol right when Ted Cruz challenges the electoral count from Arizona. What would be the purpose? There was no attempt to hold the ground or burn the building down as left wing groups do.

Because by any count the attempt was futile from the start.
But apparently those God fearing people, you referred to, can't stand the loss of a vote in the Senate.

 

[7thKeeper]

We have no evidence to prove the election wasn't stolen from Trump. We will never know the truth because the courts wouldn't allow the investigators to drain the swamp.

I see your quite happy to go along with whatever the mass media says.

I have zero evidence that you haven't been murdering kittens and puppies in a back alley and then incinerating the remains. I guess it's ok for me to claim then that that's exactly what happened, since you haven't shown any evidence to prove that you haven't done that. I've heard many people say that. Many sources. I don't know them, but many say that.

So, did I do it right? This is the amount of logic in your arguement.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

If you would just think it through, why would a president who has been urging Congress to challenge the electoral count somehow send some individuals to attack the Capitol right when Ted Cruz challenges the electoral count from Arizona. What would be the purpose? There was no attempt to hold the ground or burn the building down as left wing groups do.

He didn’t personally send them to do what they did but he riled them up and left them to do what they want and their anger was inspired by his words and his lies about his election loss. At least you seem to admit these were in fact a right wing group.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I'm curious to know what it would take for you to agree with the things I posted, @Dan1988? What evidence would you require, specifically?

 

[Valletta]

We have zero evidence that the election was stolen except for the claims of a notorious liar.

To believe that most of the government, thousands of members of the public, the media, the nation’s courts up to the highest level conspired, with no leaks and no evidence left in any form really boggles the mind. In fact, to those of us observing from the outside it appears completely ridiculous.

But trump lost right? It couldn’t possibly because a majority of folk didn’t think he did a particularly good job as president?

And yes, I do generally trust the media. Most people have the ability to discern fact from opinion in reporting. I have seen zero evidence to suggest that what they routinely report is untrue.

Not long ago I went over one of the so-called "facts" about John McCain, who ran for president and should have been under scrutiny, and I proved the Snopes fact-check story was false. Had the truth been reported it is hard to imagine McCain would have been the Republican nominee for president. That shows the power of the press to suppress a story. Wordsmiths of the press can easily slant a story, and a lot is by omission. I remember working with an Associated Press bureau chief on a story and asked him why he left a critical part of information out of a story, and it was a long story. Dead silence. Often they have a picture of where they want the story to go and facts are just fill-in. In this case there was one big lie--that there was "no evidence" of election wrongdoing or fraud. There's a massive amount of evidence of election wrongdoing. Sworn affidavits are evidence by definition, and so the media was lying to you with claims of "no evidence" when there were sworn affidavits to the contrary. There were over a thousand sworn affidavits under penalty when I lost track of the number. Any American who reads them should be outraged. A true unbiased journalist would have demanded to know the reason why the counting stopped in the middle of the night in the major swing state cities. Especially after a number of lies were told, such as the broken water main, leaky toilet stories, etc. Any decent investigative reporter would be demanding to see the electronic computer information, the photos of the ballots and computer logs. And they would be reporting on the refusal of the states to provide such data every day.