Christianity has nothing to offer you while you're alive

[Nihilist Virus]

That is a question I cannot answer because, if I were you, would I still be me?

The obvious implication is that your mind has my past and vice versa.

If you are asking, do I believe what others say of themselves? Yes, I tend toward what others call being naive. If you share an experience with me about yourself I accept it as true because you said it, and I will continue to accept it until it is proven false.

That's a silly way to live your life.

I do not condemn those who are suffering because that is uncompassionate.

Agreed.

If you can believe a christian who tells you they are suffering, why can you not believe a christian who tells you they are blessed?

Of course some Christians enjoy a good life and others not so much. Your story is fantastical, though.

Suffering is a part of this world. We all suffer. Including me. Why should suffering disallow us from blessing?

I don't understand how this is relevant.

Which part of that promise does not apply to this life and is only the promise of an eternal future?

A promise doesn't actually do anything for you. It's the fulfillment of a promise that does something. And, as I've pointed out, you have to die for the promise to be fulfilled.

As you have seen quoted in other posts above Jesus promised, not only for the future, also for the present.

So you saw me point out that such things are obviously and demonstrably false.

The true joy of the believer is that we have both a present and a future. The promise of his provision protection and comfort in this life and an eternal future with him. Having experienced the first I am assured of and expect the second. I'm looking forward to it.

The joy that I have for you is that you can have a part in it also if you will believe, perhaps as I have?

Other religions offer the same thing. Why should I choose the one that is notorious for raping children?

You see, my faith acts on both God's promises and his commands. I love him and so I love to please him. When he says, don't do that, I don't and he helps me not to.

I don't just say I believe, I show I believe. Do this and you will experience many blessings in the midst of suffering.

No amount of belief makes it real.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Why would you not infer what I intend? You should at least understand that having a self sacrificial love isn't about gaining material things for one's self.

I'm not going on a wild goose chase. Please use simple English.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

So you saw me point out that such things are obviously and demonstrably false.

And yet, when I show you they are demonstrably true you simply call me a liar. Hypocrite.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Other religions offer the same thing. Why should I choose the one that is notorious for raping children?

I am not notorious for raping children, that's an insult.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

And yet, when I show you they are demonstrably true you simply call me a liar. Hypocrite.

You didn't show me anything.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I am not notorious for raping children, that's an insult.

You're confused. You seem to think that I'm saying you are your religion.

Please stop polluting the thread. Thanks.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

You didn't show me anything.

Yes, I did. I showed very clearly by testimony that the promises Jesus gave have been true in my life over and over again, yet you won't believe.

Please stop polluting the thread. Thanks.

If that is all you think I'm doing, so be it. You are being dishonest anyway.

 

[RDKirk]

The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.

Well it does. We just don't do it.

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. -- Mark 10

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. -- Acts 2

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. --Acts 4

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.” -- 2 Corinthians 8

No member of the Body of Christ in the world should ever be homeless, hungery, or naked. The fact that's not true is not Jesus' fault, that's our fault. God has certainly placed enough wealth into the hands of Christians in the West to make it true all over the world. We just don't want to do it.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Yes, I did. I showed very clearly by testimony

That doesn't show anything.

that the promises Jesus gave have been true in my life over and over again, yet you won't believe.

Right, I don't believe your claims. I did include a portion where I hypothetically entertained your claims, though. But I'll let you in on a secret. If you tell me you went to McDonald's, I'll believe you. If you tell me you went to McDonald's, and then some guy randomly gave you a briefcase full of cash and you bought that McDonald's a year later, I'd find it difficult to believe you.

If that is all you think I'm doing, so be it. You are being dishonest anyway.

You need to back that claim up.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Well it does. We just don't do it.

“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. -- Mark 10

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. -- Acts 2

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. --Acts 4

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. The goal is equality, as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.” -- 2 Corinthians 8

No member of the Body of Christ in the world should ever be homeless, hungery, or naked. The fact that's not true is not Jesus' fault, that's our fault. God has certainly placed enough wealth into the hands of Christians in the West to make it true all over the world. We just don't want to do it.

Ever heard of that guy named Job? Even within your own worldview, a suffering person could be a godly Christian who is being temporarily tormented for Satan's amusement.

 

[Par5]

--David[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry if I was not clear, it is not necessary for a human being to die to go, soul AND body, into Heaven (as there are at least three people in Heaven right now who have physical bodies), but it is hardly typical With ~rare~ exception, we all die phyiscally, but our souls never die (and we believe that all are conscious during what we Christians refer to as the "Intermediate State", which is the period of time between physical death and bodily resurrection, believers and unbelievers alike).

--David

What proof have you for any of that? What is the soul? Who is in heaven with their physical bodies? Where is heaven? How do you know people are in an "Intermediate State"?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

This is not true. I have found that my life has been enriched, in an emotional sense. Before I was saved I was an emotional train wreck, I was scared of my own shadow. Now I am confident and assured. Besides all of that God has given me a great family, kids, and the like.

God is not against giving Christians things, note what He said to david:

2Sa 12:8 ...I let you rule Israel and Judah, and if that had not been enough, I would have given you much more.

God would have given David much more earthly glory had he not sinned.

Solomon, who is said to be the wisest man to ever live, said over and over:

Ecc 2:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Ecc 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

Ecc 5:18 Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.

Ecc 8:15 Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun.

Basically he commended that the believer enjoy their life, and he stated that the one who fears God will be able to do that. It has been my experience that the Christian life is enjoyable.

Yes the bible tells us that we will suffer rejection, and at times hurt as a Christain, but if you look at people like Job, their suffering was short-lived, and God restored his blessings.

Christians like Paul, chose a road lined will trials, so that the gospel could spread. Christians who dedicate their lives to spreading the gospel like him, can, and will to various degrees suffer persecution.

Yet even in their deep trials God filled Paul with inner spiritual joy.

God has many different ways to be glorified, and most commonly it is through giving his believers a victorious life.

Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[Larniavc]

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost.

I wouldn’t go that far. Mega church pastors and high ranking bishops seem to be fantastically wealthy.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Why should I choose the one that is notorious for raping children?

This is not a reflection on Christianity, at its core. It is a reflection on the poor teaching of the Catholic Church, which requires that priests be celibate. Celibacy is an unbiblical doctrine, although Paul said that it was good to be single because it gave him no earthly attachments, he also stressed that if a believer could not control their desires they should marry. Biblically many of the apostles were married. The problem is many priests enter the ministry for good reasons but find they can not control their passions. This doctrine needs to change. Even the Australian Royal Commission into child abuse as one of its recommendations suggested mandatory celibacy should be changed.

 

[Matt5]

The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.

I have a great idea for a product that will greatly benefit society. I'm willing to risk it all to build a big factory and make millions of this product. I'll do it if I can trust my hard work won't get stolen, or the slightest mistake means I won't lose everything.

Most atheists gravitate over to the religion of equality. Under this religion, if my business makes me millions then the government will seek to take away most of my profits in the name of equality. Of course, the government will be happy to let me eat the losses if things don't work out. Social justice warriors will scrutinize every word I say for the slightest mistake, and seek to destroy my business because I can never be forgiven.

In the land of equality, maybe I just won't build my factory. And the people will be worse off for it.

In a Christian country, the people (and government) will not be jealous of my success. I'll get to keep most of my profits. Make a mistake and I can be forgiven. Building here sounds a whole lot better.

Today the countries in the West are living on the fumes of Christianity but for the most part they are not Christian.

Christianity lays a foundation for people to trust and cooperate better. Gradually, this allows people to lift themselves up higher.

 

[Yttrium]

They managed to work together to protest gay marriage.

Fair point.

Do you believe there should be sanctions?

No, I would need more evidence that the current Vatican is still aiding and abetting pedophilia. As far as I know, the Church has take steps to stop the practice, although there may be more going on behind the scenes that I'm not aware of.

And that helps your case how...?

It doesn't. It makes my case a bit harder. You just seemed to be implying that the pedophilia is the worst thing the Church is ever done, and it isn't.

Now, of course there will be no moral teachings about raping little boys. But the actions of priests would certainly indicate otherwise, and their actions are what concern me.

You're a bit more than concerned. You seem pretty obsessive about it, and determined to paint all of Christianity as monstrous because of it. The problem has been identified. Action has been taken. Yes, the action falls far, far short of what you would prefer, and there certainly should have been more condemnation of the Church around the world, but there is currently no indication that the priests' actions will be condoned and shielded to the same extent in the future.

You ignored my point. Stalin didn't rise to power because of a lack of a belief in a deity. Conversely, the Catholic religion is what gives those child rapists power. The religion itself is the problem. Without adherents, there would be no system in place allowing priests to rape little boys with impunity.

I don't see how it matters how they rose to power. However people rise to power, there are inevitably going to be some bad people in the mix.

 

[RDKirk]

Ever heard of that guy named Job? Even within your own worldview, a suffering person could be a godly Christian who is being temporarily tormented for Satan's amusement.

That's why everyone in the Body of Christ would have to pitch in for the sake of those to whom such things happen.

There is no presumption in the New Testament that the universe would suddenly become a rose garden for Christians; there is a presumption that Christians would support other Christians in times of loss and shortage.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.

Jesus was homeless, went days without eating, was ridiculed, scorned, trampled upon, whipped ,dragged, stabbed and hung out to die a lonely death. God did not spare Him any of this. Yet He preached a life worth living in righteousness for a reason we as Christians are fully aware. . Blessings.

 

[Rachel20]

The wise choice is to choose none of them.

At least you admit it's a choice, that puts you way ahead of many

 

[childeye 2]

I'm not going on a wild goose chase. Please use simple English.

In a simple axiom, A charitable person in our society is better than a greedy person. Hence a pure Love for others is self sacrificing. It's the greedy part of me that dies on the cross with Christ so that The self sacrificial Love that is Christ can live in me.