Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[BABerean2]

So what is the punishment for those who reject the Lord's Day of rest, the Millennium mentioned in Revelation 20?

If you are claiming those who reject the Premill doctrine will be punished, you have turned your doctrine into a cult...


.

 

[Timtofly]

If you are claiming those who reject the Premill doctrine will be punished, you have turned your doctrine into a cult....

You are the one pointing out God's judgment. I just asked if God should apply it equally in the NT as He did in the OT. You mean your doctrine judges others but fails to point out your own errors. The Jews most certainly understand their history. You seem to think that same history is not applicable to you.

 

[iamlamad]

?

Someone wrote, "Only God and His Son can confirm Their covenants."

I only said "Not to mention, Kings, Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc."
Any person in one of these offices could confirm a covenant.

 

[iamlamad]

If you are claiming those who reject the Premill doctrine will be punished, you have turned your doctrine into a cult...


.

Hmmm. If indeed there will be a 1000 year reign in our future, exactly as Rev, 20 states, and some particular person is not there; where else could they be? I can only think of the goats.

 

[BABerean2]

You are the one pointing out God's judgment. I just asked if God should apply it equally in the NT as He did in the OT. You mean your doctrine judges others but fails to point out your own errors. The Jews most certainly understand their history. You seem to think that same history is not applicable to you.

If Christ did not pay for God's judgment against me at Calvary, then throw your Bible in the trash can.


.

 

[BABerean2]

Hmmm. If indeed there will be a 1000 year reign in our future, exactly as Rev, 20 states, and some particular person is not there; where else could they be? I can only think of the goats.

Who is the accuser of the Brethren?

Who claims those who do not believe in the Pretrib doctrine will not be gathered to Christ at His return?

Who tries to use fear in an attempt to make their modern Bible doctrine work?

..................................................

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

The New Covenant: Bob George

.

 

[iamlamad]

Who is the accuser of the Brethren?

Who claims those who do not believe in the Pretrib doctrine will not be gathered to Christ at His return?

Who tries to use fear in an attempt to make their modern Bible doctrine work?

..................................................

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
.

One reason people answer a question with a question is because they don't know he answer. I think you know where the goats are sent. Perhaps you can come up with a third place someone might be if they are NOT a part of the millennial reign. I cannot.

 

[BABerean2]

One reason people answer a question with a question is because they don't know he answer. I think you know where the goats are sent. Perhaps you can come up with a third place someone might be if they are NOT a part of the millennial reign. I cannot.

If you are calling those who do not agree with you goats, come on out with it...


.

 

[mkgal1]

Any person in one of these offices could confirm a covenant.

Maybe "a" covenant.....but they can't confirm God's covenants with humanity (and that is the topic of discussion).

God chooses His mediators....and Messiah is the mediator (and high priest and King) of the better covenant....the covenant of peace (reconciliation).....the New Covenant....the covenant of promise as contrasted to the covenant of flesh.

Genesis 17:7
I will confirm my covenant with you and your descendants after you, from generation to generation. This is the everlasting covenant: I will always be your God and the God of your descendants after you.

Ephesians 2:11-13
Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Galatians 4:28-
And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac.
But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit.​

 

[mkgal1]

One reason people answer a question with a question is because they don't know he answer

I'm sure you apply that to yourself instead of having a double standard. Noted.

 

[jgr]

Someone wrote, "Only God and His Son can confirm Their covenants."

I only said "Not to mention, Kings, Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc."
Any person in one of these offices could confirm a covenant.

Neither could nor did.

Only God and His Son could and did confirm Their old and New covenants.

 

[nolidad]

It is God who answers in Romans 9:6, instead of me.

If you do not like what God says, then that is between you and God.


.

Well this is the first time I have seen that line to dodge answering someone.

YOu posted I answered so why did you post it again? did God make you do it?

 

[nolidad]

How many times do I have to post Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, which quote directly from Jeremiah 31:31-34, before you give up your claim found above.

Either the author of the Book of Hebrews was confused about the historical fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-34, or you are confused.

I have been asking YOU how the verses you post show physically teh fuflilment of the New Covenant posted here again:

JER. 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Now your verses which you say show the fulfilment of the New Covenant:

Hebrews 8:6-13
King James Version

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So are you saying that the "after those days" is sometime after 34AD? Have all the house of Israel and Judah had this happen to them in Hebrews? YOU have said the days have come- so then teh house of Israel and Judah must all be saved!

Here is the next verse you put up to defend a historic fulfilment:

Hebrews 10:16-18
King James Version

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

So the House of Israel and Judah (all Jews that is what house means BTW) are all saved since "after those days"?

 

[nolidad]

I'm not the one retranslating meanings.

Covenants like the ones with mediators Abraham; Moses; King David; and Jesus, the New covenant mediator are all based on the ancient Hebrew cultural covenants. It's not a Greek practice, so there's not Greek language to describe the terms. As I already posted, language has limitations.

We can, however, read Scripture and see just how these human mediators acted as foreshadows of Jesus the mediator.

they were never called mediators!

And there are numerous perfectly good greek words to call one who is not mediating a covenant. BUT GOD HIMSELF inspired the use of teh legal word mediator which is a legal term used to describe one who acts as a go between between two parties!

And yes it was a greek practice!

But I await your scholarly evidence to support your assertion here.

 

[nolidad]

I'm not the one retranslating meanings.

yes you are:

Heb 12:24

And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

There are five other times that the word "mediator appears and they are all the same word:
μεσίτης
Transliteration
mesitēs μέσος (G3319)
Greek Inflections of μεσίτης μεσίτῃ — 1x
μεσίτης — 4x
μεσίτου — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: mediator (6x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G3319; a go-between, i.e. (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor):—mediator.

Do you think that God was having some off days when He inspired the use of this word to three different authors???

Did He make a mistake and had to wait until mikgal1 came along to figure out where He went wrong? that is what you are implying!

 

[nolidad]

I'd appreciate it if you could try to offer others the respect that's been extended to you. These comments are inflammatory and unnecessary.

But they also seem to be true. I have posted question after question after question posted the same verses over and over and get silence from you.

I ask because it "appears" you are unfamiliar with many parts of the bible. If what to me seems to "appear" is wrong, then I apologize.

So let me repost teh new covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

YOu keep contending the new covenant is already fulfilled, and I keep asking you and BAB when did these provisions of the new Covenant get fulfilled!

 

[mkgal1]

The giving of the Law through Moses on Mt Sinai was a shadow of the ministry of Christ. That's why you're seeing patterns. But the Temple in Jerusalem (tent for Moses) and all its elements were a copy of the heavenly reality:

Hebrews 9:23
So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.​

As I mentioned a long time ago in this thread, Douggg, I do think you're correct in seeing signifigance in the 7 year pattern. When you posted this:

Differently, Moses required that the Mt. Sinai covenant be confirmed on a 7 year cycle in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

......I've since been looking for articles about Jesus being "the new Moses". I do believe that 7 year cycle has great significance in Jesus's ministry (obviously it's known that i believe it relates to Daniel's 70th week...26/27 to AD-34 AD).....however, I believe it has to do with His promised everlasting covenant. The New Covenant.

From this linked article:
When I teach on Matthew, I tell my students that the book can be summarized with one word: fulfillment. The first evangelist presents Jesus as the fulfillment of the long-awaited hopes and dreams of Israel.

Although Matthew compares Jesus to many figures, Moses takes a prominent position. Some are surprised to learn that Jesus is never directly given a title such as, “the prophet like Moses” or even “the new Moses.” Some even question whether the Mosaic imagery in Matthew exists.

There are two foundational passages in the Scriptures that support this. First, in Deuteronomy 18:15–19.

The second foundation for the biblical hope of a new Moses is that the future age of salvation is presented in terms of deliverance from Egypt. Redemption and exodus are the main terms that point to Jesus as the new Moses. Isaiah speaks of a future salvation in the imagery of a new exodus.

Isaiah 43:15–19

While the entire first discourse (the Sermon on the Mount) could be looked at from the perspective of Jesus as the new Moses, I will focus mainly on the set up to the sermon. Four things point to Matthew describing Jesus as the new Moses as he goes up to give the new law. ~ "The Sermon on the Mount and Jesus as the New Moses | BibleProject™" The Sermon on the Mount and Jesus as the New Moses | BibleProject™
​

 

[nolidad]

Your repeating this question over and over again (AFTER I've already answered) isn't a discussion. It's just going 'round in circles.

I posted this (and my post was dismissed - again - with this question above). Can we try again with an answer this time?:

​

How can it be true that Jesus is NOW the mediator of the New and better covenant (and the words of Jeremiah are quoted as fulfillment)........yet, in your belief, the New Covenant is not fulfilled? Do you, perhaps, have a different understanding of "fulfilled"? Maybe we need to back up a bit and explain what a fulfilled covenant even is (in each of our understanding)?

If you posted the answer to my question I may have missed it. Could you please cite theh post # of yours so I can see your answer?

YOu keep saying the covenant is fulfilled and I keep asking when did these provisions of the Covenannt as declared by God get fulfilled?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:



33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Read full chapter

I must have missed your answer for it would have included dates and it would have shown all here when "after those days" was and when it occurred.

I use the standard word and definition for mediator and you say it doesn't mean tht.

I also accept the definition of fulfilled:

πληρόω
Transliteration
plēroō πλήρης (G4134)
Greek Inflections of πληρόω ἐπλήρου — 1x
ἐπληροῦντο — 2x
ἐπληροῦτο — 1x
ἐπληρώθη — 7x
ἐπλήρωσαν — 2x
ἐπλήρωσεν — 4x
πεπληρώκατε — 1x
πεπλήρωκεν — 2x
πεπληρωκέναι — 1x
πεπλήρωμαι — 2x
πεπληρωμένα — 1x
πεπληρωμένη — 3x
πεπληρωμένην — 1x
πεπληρωμένοι — 4x
πεπληρωμένους — 1x
Πεπλήρωται — 1x
πεπλήρωται — 3x
πληροῖς — 1x
πληρούμενον — 1x
πληρουμένου — 1x
πληροῦν — 1x
πληροῦσθε — 1x
πληροῦται — 1x
πληρωθείσης — 1x
πληρωθέντων — 1x
πληρωθῇ — 21x
πληρωθῆναι — 3x
πληρωθήσεται — 1x
πληρωθήσονται — 1x
πληρωθῆτε — 2x
πληρωθῶ — 1x
πληρωθῶσιν — 4x
πληρώσαι — 1x
πληρῶσαι — 3x
πληρώσαντες — 1x
πληρώσατέ — 1x
πληρώσατε — 1x
πληρώσει — 1x
πληρώσεις — 1x
πληρώσῃ — 2x
πληρωσονται — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: fulfil (51x), fill (19x), be full (7x), complete (2x), end (2x), miscellaneous (9x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
   
   1. to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
      
      1. I abound, I am liberally supplied
         
2. to render full, i.e. to complete
   

And I also accept the word used for covenant:
διαθήκη


diathēkē διατίθημι (G1303)




Greek Inflections of διαθήκη διαθῆκαι — 2x
διαθήκη — 7x
διαθήκῃ — 2x
διαθήκην — 5x
διαθήκης — 16x
διαθηκῶν — 1x






Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: covenant (20x), testament (13x).




Outline of Biblical Usage G1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will):—covenant, testament.


So show why God chose bad words.

 

[mkgal1]

they were never called mediators!

That is the role they served. Please educate yourself in the ancient Hebrew culture and the practice of their covenants. I'm not willing to do your work for you, but sincerely, it illuminates much of Scripture to understand that particular culture. It's the entire context of our Scripture. Ray Vander Laan and Dr Scott Hahn are excellent teachers on the subject.

Resources:
"Covenant Theology — Dr. Scott Hahn - The Official Site" Covenant Theology — Dr. Scott Hahn - The Official Site

"That the World May Know | Biblical Covenants" Biblical Covenants

 

[nolidad]

That is the role they served. Please educate yourself in the ancient Hebrew culture and the practice of their covenants. I'm not willing to do your work for you, but sincerely, it illuminates much of Scripture to understand that particular culture. It's the entire context of our Scripture. Ray Vander Laan and Dr Scott Hahn are excellent teachers on the subject.

Resources:
"Covenant Theology — Dr. Scott Hahn - The Official Site" Covenant Theology — Dr. Scott Hahn - The Official Site

"That the World May Know | Biblical Covenants" Biblical Covenants

View attachment 287936

Already knew all this. No need for you to be rude!

If you only knew the amount of ancient Hebrew Culture I have learned you wouldn't sound so arrogant!

But OT Covenants were made the same as all other covenants! Th eonly different one is when God was both parties of the covenant with Abraham. He became oth paries.

Now show me why a mediator is not a mediator and why fuflilled is not fulfilled as defined.