Halloween and "cultural appropriation".

[Strathos]

Where is that happening?

It seems to be implied by saying that certain things will always be offensive no matter what.

That's an appeal to ignorance or whataboutism more specifically. The fact of the matter is that at present, it is a problem, this is dishonest attempts to deflect away from taking responsibility for something that is damaging, just not to you from the perspective of a white person (unless you aren't, but it sure sounds like you're white)

My concern is that if you keep insisting certain things are offensive and will always be offensive, it removes the ability of progress and society overcoming them.

 

[dzheremi]

He's no more black and I am with a good tan.

He didn't get that color by tanning.

And she's definitely not black.

Disagreeing with someone politically doesn't change their family/racial background.

 

[Triumvirate]

It seems to be implied by saying that certain things will always be offensive no matter what.

My concern is that if you keep insisting certain things are offensive and will always be offensive, it removes the ability of progress and society overcoming them.

Again, where are people actually saying this?

 

[Triumvirate]

You didn't raise any legitimate points.

Yeah, you need to actually show that.

And I'm pretty sure I'm old enough to be your pappy.

Probably. Which only makes your silly petulance all the more unbecoming.

 

[renniks]

He didn't get that color by tanning.



Disagreeing with someone politically doesn't change their family/racial background.

She part indian, part jamaican. American blacks are offended that she calls herself black for political purposes. But the point was, it shows how being considered black is an advantage in America today.

 

[renniks]

Yeah, you need to actually show that.

No you need to actually define what systemic racism looks like, instead of borrowing vague talking points.

 

[Triumvirate]

No you need to actually define what systemic racism looks like, instead of borrowing vague talking points.

I've already written several detailed posts on this. Start by responding to those. If you can.

 

[dzheremi]

She part indian, part jamaican. American blacks are offended that she calls herself black for political purposes.

What gives you this impression? Which American blacks are offended that she calls herself black?

Besides, even if this is true, it also doesn't change Harris' actual family background. That's what determines whether or not she's black, not whether every or any particular black person is offended or not that she calls herself black.

I mean, if I wanted to play this game I could say that there are plenty of white people who are offended by President Trump sharing a German-American background with them. That still wouldn't change the fact that he is obviously German-American.

But the point was, it shows how being considered black is an advantage in America today.

If her being a vice presidential candidate shows that there's somehow an advantage to being black in America today, then does Vice President Pence being a vice presidential candidate and also the vice president right now likewise show that there's an advantage to being an old white guy? Or does this advantage only work one way, and if so, why?

 

[Strathos]

It just goes to show that race really is a social construct, if a Jamaican and an African-American are considered different 'races'.

 

[dzheremi]

It just goes to show that race really is a social construct, if a Jamaican and an African-American are considered different 'races'.

If anything, I'd think it shows why it would be better to just go back to using 'black' if by 'African-American' you mean a black person, since Jamaica is not a part of America or Africa, but black people can be Americans of African descent from Jamaica if they move from Jamaica to the United States at some point. "Jamaican African-American" just sounds weird.

 

[Aldebaran]

White people being offended shows they don't understand their own privileged position in terms of societal bias.

By that logic, black people are offended because they have no idea how good they have it. They've been taught that things are so terrible, and so they become resentful of people who don't look like them.

 

[Aldebaran]

what Halloween costumes are white people offended by?

None.
We don't feel the need to find reasons to be offended by such things.

 

[Aldebaran]

It isn't about them understanding, it's the glorification of a colonialist mindset that a white person can just appropriate any other culture because it's just their right to do so in a culture that glorifies whiteness as the norm and minorities as just an afterthought.

You don't know what you're talking about. A white person who puts on a Halloween custume to look like someone from another culture or country isn't a "glorification" of anything.

Do your neighborhood a favor by NOT handing out candy this year. You may see something that would offend you.

No, because Elsa is 1) a fictional character and 2) her being white is entirely optional to the story that is told. And 3) she's white, so really a black person wanting to emulate her is in a way just playing into white privilege because there are so few black role models in fiction, particularly Disney, in the first place, so they really have very little choice but to dress up as what are overwhelmingly more white princess, white and blonde/black/brunette haired no less, even red haired princesses or such fairly rare.

That's some double-standard crock you just cooked up! Now you're just trying to imply that only a white person can be racist or appropriate another's culture.

Pretty sure no one is saying black people cannot do cultural appropriation, but their doing so is because of a society that places privilege onto whiteness in various cultural contexts, including fiction. Have you heard of the whitewashing problem in terms of pop culture? I'm excited, personally, for the new live action Little Mermaid because the lead is supposed to be black from the information we have, which means they're changing that cultural bias towards whiteness

What they're doing is attempting to appease the black militants that riot and loot and destroy their neighborhoods when they're offended. However, a black little mermaid, or a black Santa Claus, (or even a black president of the United States) will make them happy. Even if black people had their own TV channels where the star of every show is black (BET, or BOUNCE), and they had their own news channels (BNT), and they're own magazines such as Ebony, they still wouldn't be happy. They'd still riot and loot and burn down their neighborhoods because someone offended them. They just have too big a sense of entitlement.

 

[muichimotsu]

Where did I say I know everything?

Your attitude smacks of Dunning Kruger syndrome, like you think you know so much. Everything is a hyperbole in regards to how you deflect away from considering that you might be ignorant about something and, *gasp* want to learn more.

 

[Aldebaran]

First off, even that is a negative stereotype, your not being bothered is likely because you're settled in the idea that stereotypes cannot be negative in terms of human social interaction, but pretty sure there's strong arguments made already that even if the stereotypes are recognized as such, that still reflects a social bias as they persist.

And there's also the consideration that the minorities, including Irish people, in a WASP majority bias culture like America, are almost desensitized to it or are just accepting their marginalization and trivialization by such stereotypes.

You not being bothered doesn't mean it isn't a negative affect on Irish people in general, the same as the Fighting Irish (or other stereotypes used in a way that isn't meant to be satirical, but encouraging the stereotype as "funny" otherwise)

Depends on where you live: Irish Republican Army | History, Attacks, & Facts

 

[muichimotsu]

Only American culture does not marginalize black people...we are a mix of every culture race and religion.

And you show that you don't even understand what marginalization means: the existence of minorities does not mean they cannot be marginalized, because that's regarding societal biases and treatment thereof. Just...educate yourself even a bit on that term alone and we might get somewhere

 

[muichimotsu]

Depends on where you live: Irish Republican Army | History, Attacks, & Facts

I didn't claim it was universal, did I? Japanese are notorious in their racist depiction of black people back in the day based on what was massive cultural ignorance about blackface and such

 

[muichimotsu]

You don't know what you're talking about. A white person who puts on a Halloween custume to look like someone from another culture or country isn't a "glorification" of anything.

Do your neighborhood a favor by NOT handing out candy this year. You may see something that would offend you.

It's colonialist, you don't know what you're talking about because, again, I'm pretty sure you're white and thus may not be able to see past your own privileged status in society. the idea that any culture's style of dress, especially that which is not just something interchangeable, like a "Western" suit and tie, is just something you can wear is the very attitude that is marginalizing in its outcome, because it makes those cultures that stand out feel like they just have accept being objectified.

That's some double-standard crock you just cooked up! Now you're just trying to imply that only a white person can be racist or appropriate another's culture.

Never said that, it's merely more common because of colonialist spread and how whites permeate and create a social bias towards them with the idea that they're civilized, the white savior attitude in part.

What they're doing is attempting to appease the black militants that riot and loot and destroy their neighborhoods when they're offended. However, a black little mermaid, or a black Santa Claus, (or even a black president of the United States) will make them happy. Even if black people had their own TV channels where the star of every show is black (BET, or BOUNCE), and they had their own news channels (BNT), and they're own magazines such as Ebony, they still wouldn't be happy. They'd still riot and loot and burn down their neighborhoods because someone offended them. They just have too big a sense of entitlement.

No, it doesn't, not when the idea is that they won because they're black, not because of their own policies apart from their race. You're forgetting the basic problem that's the inverse of color blindness in racial discussions, which creates a different set of issues from the tokenization of black people like your accusations.

A black Little Mermaid is something I'm not sure how it's going to work, but visibility is key here. I'm not going to act like I know better just because I'm white, that's the height of arrogance.

And there's your systemic racism, the idea that black people are entitled or will always loot and rob because that's just "how they are", rather than it being an unfortunate response to a culture that continues to marginalize them even when there is the appearance of "equality". Segregation ring a bell? Othering of black people is part of the issue and them getting a specialty TV channel or a magazine doesn't mean there isn't still internalized racism from black people towards themselves in the expectations of conforming to what white culture thinks is "black"

 

[muichimotsu]

None.
We don't feel the need to find reasons to be offended by such things.

Ah, the arrogance and condescension is just dripping: as if white people are monolithic and if they're not like you they must be wrong somehow, possibly even race traitors, who knows what term you'd use

 

[muichimotsu]

Which is convenient because it creates a moving target that can never be nailed down. So systemic racism can be anything and nothing because it has no real definition.

Not when we consider that systemic racism is in no small part encouraged by colonial mindsets, a term I don't think you've even taken 10 minutes to look into honestly, if at all.