Halloween and "cultural appropriation".

[dzheremi]

Systemic racism is coupled to the specific form and function of institutions of the state or society at large, which do not necessarily automatically favour everyone equally.

Individual racism is just discrimination between individuals. Harmful, sure. But not as harmful depending on form of it. Groups that lack institutional power due to underrepresentation or lingering bigoted attitudes within an institution will be far more impacted by systemic racism, and they cannot leverage systemic racism against other demographics - at most, only the much less powerful individual racism.

I understand the difference between the two concepts, but that's not what I asked about. This doesn't actually answer my question.

 

[Triumvirate]

I understand the difference between the two concepts, but that's not what I asked about. This doesn't actually answer my question.

Obviously they are composed of individuals. That doesn't mean systemic and individual racism are functionally equivalent, which is what the other person I was responding to was implying.

 

[renniks]

Rednecks tend to be white,

Stereotypes plus marginalization! Are you a racist or what!

 

[dzheremi]

Obviously they are composed of individuals. That doesn't mean systemic and individual racism are functionally equivalent, which is what the other person I was responding to was implying.

Yeah, I know they're not functionally equivalent. I just think a lot of people looking at this issue will have an easier time understanding it if the 'systemic' aspect is broken down in such a way that they can relate to it, since everyone can presumably recognize when an individual isn't acting right, but comparatively fewer people can accurately trace this to larger systems at the society-wide level.

It's like the situation in Egypt: Because Islam is officially privileged as the religion of the state (via things like article 2 of the Egyptian constitution, which specifies that Islam is the religion of the state and that all laws take Islamic sharia as their principle inspiration), non-Muslims are correct to say that the discrimination that they face as a result of being religious minorities is a systemic problem, since it's built into the way that the society itself runs. At the same time (in other words, not excluding the 'systemic' definition), when it comes to any given situation, the responsibility for acting justly (or not) falls upon the person, whether their status as a Muslim or a Christian grants them a greater or lesser status within this inherently discriminatory system, and so you can get a lot of variation in practice on a person-to-person level, with systemic discrimination showing itself regardless of how well any particular Christians or Muslims may get along (for instance, through the persistence of locally-mediated 'forgiveness councils' which come together in the wake of anti-Christian violence, placing the onus of 'forgiveness' on the Christians after being dispossessed, threatened, and sometimes physically harmed, as a means of not only smoothing over what has already happened but also guaranteeing that they will not seek actual legal redress of their grievances at a higher level in the Egyptian court system, since the local meeting acts in its place; in practice, Christians are basically forced into such meetings by the thinly-veiled threat of further violence should they not comply with them and give their forced 'forgiveness' to the representatives of their attackers at them).

So I think my particular religious community understands how this works, at least by analogy to what happens in their homeland, but it's difficult to get people to see it in a western context where usually the mechanisms of oppression are more sophisticated.

 

[Triumvirate]

Stereotypes plus marginalization! Are you a racist or what!

Tend to be, darling. And yes, it's literally a term referring to white skin not coping with the sun

If you'd rather not have an intellectually honest discussion with someone who is answering your questions, that's on you. But even your silly attempts at tu quoque reveal your ignorance about the concepts and topics we are discussing. False equivalences, like I said.

 

[dzheremi]

Stereotypes plus marginalization! Are you a racist or what!

Didn't redneck develop as a term to describe poor whites in particular due to how their necks would redden from working in the sun all day? I'm not saying that non-white people don't get sunburned, but it wouldn't really make sense if applied to black people, since it wouldn't be visible in the same way or to the same degree.

I know today it's often used as a more general term for a lower-class, ill-mannered person (usually from the southern US), but there's still good reason why it isn't equally applied to others of other races.

 

[renniks]

Anyone of any race can be racist" - individual racism - is a separate matter to system level racism. The two things are not the sa

Which is convenient because it creates a moving target that can never be nailed down. So systemic racism can be anything and nothing because it has no real definition.

 

[renniks]

Didn't redneck develop as a term to describe poor whites in particular due to how their necks would redden from working in the sun all day? I'm not saying that non-white people don't get sunburned, but it wouldn't really make sense if applied to black people, since it wouldn't be visible in the same way or to the same degree.

I know today it's often used as a more general term for a lower-class, ill-mannered person (usually from the southern US), but there's still good reason why it isn't equally applied to others of other races.

I know of proud black rednecks... it's a lifestyle not a skin color.
Some of them even fly rebel flags.
And calling us ill mannered just shows your biase. I suppose you think us unintelligent too. I demand compensation for my mental anguish.

 

[Triumvirate]

Which is convenient because it creates a moving target that can never be nailed down. So systemic racism can be anything and nothing because it has no real definition.

Even though I just gave one lol

It's really not difficult - those overrepresented in the political system and who are (usually, but not always) a demographic majority tend to have laws and structures favouring them.

Minorities do not. That doesn't stop minorities from being racist on a person to person level, but that's all the impact will likely ever be - personal. It doesn't have the impact of systemic racism, because as minorities they are not favoured by system level processes.

 

[renniks]

Tend to be, darling. And yes, it's literally a term referring to white skin not coping with the sun

If you'd rather not have an intellectually honest discussion with someone who is answering your questions, that's on you. But even your silly attempts at tu quoque reveal your ignorance about the concepts and topics we are discussing. False equivalences, like I said.

And now you call me ignorant. Which makes you an uninformed racist.
Redneck is a lifestyle not a skin color.

 

[dzheremi]

I know of proud black rednecks... it's a lifestyle not a skin color.
Some of them even fly rebel flags.
And calling us ill mannered just shows your biase. I suppose you think us unintelligent too. I demand compensation for my mental anguish.

Hahaha. Well, it's not exactly the smartest reaction to mistake talking about the definition of a term for a personal attack against you in particular, so yeah. As you've put it.

 

[Triumvirate]

And now you call me ignorant. Which makes you an uninformed racist.
Redneck is a lifestyle not a skin color.

I know. That's why I said tend to be. This is not a particularly original game you're playing, but I already undermined this tactic by acknowledging that not all rednecks are white.

So nice try, but that trick isn't going to succeed against me. Have another go with something else? Might I suggest something equally boring and unoriginal like whinging about "reverse racism", or how "the antiracists are the *real* racists"?

And is all this aerated, dishonest nonsense really a simpler way to live your life than to just admit you might have been wrong on matters of race?

 

[Triumvirate]

Man I'm so glad I don't talk this sort of sad reactionary guff anymore. Whew.

 

[renniks]

Minorities do not. That doesn't stop minorities from being racist on a person to person level, but that's all the impact will likely ever be - personal. It doesn't have the impact of systemic racism, because as minorities they are not favoured by system level processes.

Oh please. Minorities are now the favored class. Look at how the vice president nominee pretends to be black.

 

[renniks]

I know. That's why I said tend to be. This is not a particularly original game you're playing, but I already undermined this tactic by acknowledging that not all rednecks are white.

So nice try, but that trick isn't going to succeed against me. Have another go with something else? Might I suggest something equally boring and unoriginal like whinging about "reverse racism", or how "the antiracists are the *real* racists"?

And is all this aerated, dishonest nonsense really a simpler way to live your life than to just admit you might have been wrong on matters of race?

Lol, so you tactic is to pretend you won and throw out insults. Wow, how original!

 

[renniks]

Man I'm so glad I don't talk this sort of sad reactionary guff anymore. Whew.

More insulting with no substance.

 

[dzheremi]

Oh please. Minorities are now the favored class. Look at how the vice president nominee pretends to be black.

"Pretends"? Excuse me, but this is her father, economist Donald J. Harris. He is from Jamaica. He is most definitely a black person, and so Kamala Harris is definitely a black person.

 

[Triumvirate]

Lol, so you tactic is to pretend you won and throw out insults. Wow, how original!

When you're not actually responding to the detailed answers I've provided to your questions, then yes, I am going to assume you are not a serious person.

And at that point it's just jokes. Don't like it? Grow up, and let's have an actual discussion. You can start by responding to some of the points that have been raised.

 

[renniks]

"Pretends"? Excuse me, but this is her father, economist Donald J. Harris. He is from Jamaica. He is most definitely a black person, and so Kamala Harris is definitely a black person.

He's no more black and I am with a good tan.
And she's definitely not black.

 

[renniks]

When you're not actually responding to the detailed answers I've provided to your questions, then yes, I am going to assume you are not a serious person.

And at that point it's just jokes. Don't like it? Grow up, and let's have an actual discussion. You can start by responding to some of the points that have been raised.

You didn't raise any legitimate points. And I'm pretty sure I'm old enough to be your pappy.