Halloween and "cultural appropriation".

[Aldebaran]

Now we're being told that dressing up in your favorite Halloween custume may offend someone.

PSA: These 10 Halloween “Costumes” Will Always Be Offensive

"So what does that look like? What counts as cultural appropriation? According to Marie Claire, the simple answer to that is you shouldn't dress up as a marginalized culture that isn't your own, and you most definitely shouldn't paint or color your skin to match someone else's."

 

[durangodawood]

Now we're being told that dressing up in your favorite Halloween custume may offend someone.

PSA: These 10 Halloween “Costumes” Will Always Be Offensive

"So what does that look like? What counts as cultural appropriation? According to Marie Claire, the simple answer to that is you shouldn't dress up as a marginalized culture that isn't your own, and you most definitely shouldn't paint or color your skin to match someone else's."

How is dressing up as Jesus for Halloween looked at among Christians?

 

[Albion]

How is dressing up as Jesus for Halloween looked at among Christians?

somewhat disrespectful

But it has nothing to do with the "cultural appropriation" or "If I don't approve of it, it's a hate crime" sillies.

 

[durangodawood]

somewhat disrespectful

But it has nothing to do with the "cultural appropriation" or "If I don't approve of it, it's a hate crime" sillies.

Whoa. The stakes of our Halloween choices just got raised.

 

[Albion]

Not necessarily, but you never know what soapbox someone is going to get on in today's world.

 

[durangodawood]

So, is there anywhere we should draw the line at disrespectful cultural stereotyping?

Or is absolutely everything just fine?

 

[Aldebaran]

So, is there anywhere we should draw the line at disrespectful cultural stereotyping?

Or is absolutely everything just fine?

Have you ever seen a black person dress up as a cowboy? The cowboys of the Old West were typically white, and the cowboy is stereotypically white. Should a black person dressing up as a cowboy be deemed as being offensive to white people?

 

[durangodawood]

Have you ever seen a black person dress up as a cowboy? The cowboys of the Old West were typically white, and the cowboy is stereotypically white. Should a black person dressing up as a cowboy be deemed as being offensive to white people?

There were lots of black cowboys, just not in the movies.

But either way I dont see how that helps with my question.

 

[Albion]

So, is there anywhere we should draw the line at disrespectful cultural stereotyping?

First, we should probably determine if "cultural stereotyping" is anything more than just one more bit of newspeak created by some people in order to restrict perfectly normal practices by other people whom they do not like.

 

[Aldebaran]

There were lots of black cowboys, just not in the movies.

But either way I dont see how that helps with my question.

You asked if "we should draw the line at disrespectful cultural stereotyping". I was bringing up an instance and asking if it would apply?

 

[dzheremi]

From the 'article':

2
An Egyptian Queen
Even if you're taking a costume from "history," it can still bring up ugly reminders of a violent past. According to the Ancient History Encyclopedia, the ankh, which is what the woman in this picture is holding, was appropriated by the Christians in the 4th century CE as a symbol for their god. This might just seems like a beautiful costume, but it's a symbol of a culture that was violently appropriated centuries ago.

هههههههههههه! والعرب في مصر او الغزوات؟

Typical idiot non-thinking, enriched by non-historical 'history' puffed up by idiots. The ankh was no more 'violently appropriated' by Christians than anything else, as Christianity spread to the native Egyptians (you know, the people for whom the ankh was already their own cultural symbol) during the persecution of Christians, not the other way around. By the time of the end of the last major government-organized persecution of Christians in Roman Egypt (under Maximinius Daia, though these are usually folded into the Diocletian persecution), the native Church was already on its 19th bishop, HH St. Alexander (r. 312-328). The scriptures began to appear in Coptic almost two centuries before that (c. 150 AD according to Aziz S. Atiya, the father of modern Coptology), indicating the indigenous acceptance of Christianity at a very early date.

I'm really sick of idiots who don't know what they're talking about treating Egyptian Christians or Egyptian Christianity as if it doesn't belong to Egypt just as much as the pre-Christian Egyptian religions (or, God forbid, Islam), and just saying whatever they think sounds right to them because they found it in some encyclopedia written by other idiots who also don't know what they're talking about and are given to conspiracy theories. If you talk to some actual Coptic people (as I certainly have), they'll likely tell you that it was their ancestors' own identification of the ankh with the cross that helped them to accept Christianity in the first place. Only an absolute moron would call that "Violent appropriation", unless it's somehow reasonable to suggest that the Egyptians are appropriating their own culture!

And it was not just appropriated, but "Violently appropriated", they say? Again, let's see what some actual Egyptian people have to say about who violently appropriated what in Egypt. From the writer Fatima Naoot (who was jailed subsequent to this interview for allegedly "insulting Islam" via FB posts that criticized Islamic fasting practices):

Well how do you like that! Some foreigners (the Arabs) came in and appropriated all of Egypt, and the Egyptian identity! And yet it's the preexisting CHRISTIANS who need to feel shame for 'appropriating' what was and is already theirs? Yeah...you can go take a flying leap, and take your absolutely nonsense view of Egypt and Egyptians with you, Mika Doyle and Mia Mercado, who by those names sound about as Egyptian as I am.

I am so tired of this kind of 'woke' garbage, where being outraged is a substitute for being informed.

 

[durangodawood]

You asked if "we should draw the line at disrespectful cultural stereotyping". I was bringing up an instance and asking if it would apply?

Like I said, there were lots of black cowboys. So your premise was wrong - and therefore not helpful.

I think all of us can identify instances of grotesque cultural stereotyping thats "over the line". The problem lies in the gray areas.

 

[Albion]

I think all of can identify instances of grotesque cultural stereotyping thats "over the line". The problem lies in the gray areas.

I wouldn't assume that, but maybe if you cited a few examples of what you are referring to....

 

[durangodawood]

I wouldn't assume that, but maybe if you cited a few examples of what you are referring to....

I'd have to show them to get the point across, and I'm pretty sure CF prohibits that kind of material, probably for good reason.

Seriously you cant think of any grotesque cultural stereotyping on your own?

 

[Hazelelponi]

What is the topic of discussion here, exactly... I'm confused.

Are we asking from a Christian perspective?

Are we asking from the world's perspective?

If Christian, don't dress up in celebration of the pagan, or partake in pagan activities. Good choice.

From the world's perspective, who on earth cares what they do? Who cares if silly non-Christian thought processes are creeping into their pagan celebrations and activities? Did you think it wouldn't?

Preach the Gospel to the lost... and move on.

This mindset truly does confuse me. A bunch of unbelievers are acting like it in all their ways... not my problem past sharing the Gospel with the lost...

 

[Aldebaran]

What is the topic of discussion here, exactly... I'm confused.

Are we asking from a Christian perspective?

Are we asking from the world's perspective?

If Christian, don't dress up in celebration of the pagan, or partake in pagan activities. Good choice.

From the world's perspective, who on earth cares what they do? Who cares if silly non-Christian thought processes are creeping into their pagan celebrations and activities? Did you think it wouldn't?

Preach the Gospel to the lost... and move on.

We're talking about the validity of people being "offended" due to someone dressing up in a halloween costume that reflects culture.

 

[Hazelelponi]

We're talking about the validity of people being "offended" due to someone dressing up in a halloween costume that reflects culture.

I don't think dressing up in a Halloween costume has any validity - but then I believe in Christ.

As far as their offense... just not a Christian problem because it's not a Christian issue.

 

[durangodawood]

We're talking about the validity of people being "offended" due to someone dressing up in a halloween costume that reflects culture.

I do think youve rightly pointed out some very silly oversensitivity around these issues.

But I reject the counterargument that nothing in the realm of cultural stereotypes should be considered offensive, which is what I seem to be hearing.

 

[Albion]

I'd have to show them to get the point across, and I'm pretty sure CF prohibits that kind of material, probably for good reason.

Seriously you cant think of any grotesque cultural stereotyping on your own?

For one thing, the term is so fluid that it's not easy to know exactly what "cultural appropriation" actually is.

For another, the term is never applied evenly but just against whichever group the speaker wants to vilify.

And lastly, what difference does it make if someone or other does do something that might be considered "cultural appropriation?"

If somebody else pioneered a cultural style, it wasn't patented (!) and might better, if everyone were thinking straight, be considered a compliment rather than an offense when others picked it up.

 

[durangodawood]

For one thing, the term is so fluid that it's not easy to know exactly what "cultural appropriation" actually is.

For another, the term is never applied evenly but just against whichever group the speaker wants to vilify.

And lastly, what difference does it make if someone or other does do something that might be considered "cultural appropriation?"

If somebody else pioneered a cultural style, it wasn't patented (!) and might better, if everyone were thinking straight, be considered a compliment rather than an offense when others picked it up.

I have mixed feelings about all this.

My main guide is that if a cultural product or style is already at large in the marketplace, then its fair game to use or remix, perhaps with some acknowledgement of where it came from.

I draw the line at deeply held insider images and practices, especially core religious elements of culture. For instance, not into people with no native Am connection making money off "Indian sweatlodge experiences" and the like.