Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[mkgal1]

You will learn it means to establish with power or authority!

Exactly....which is what Jesus's first advent had done (established with power and authority - His New Covenant).

And like this (the New Covenant's promised gift on Pentecost or also known as The Feast of Weeks." or Shavuot):

Acts 1:4
And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss.


Acts 2
Genesis 11:1–9; Leviticus 23:15–22)
1When the day of Pentecost(a) came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.5Now there were dwellingb in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.7Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,c 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”12Astounded and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?

[Please read Peter’s full explanation here: "Acts 2 BSB" Acts 2 BSB]​

 

[BABerean2]

So when did Jesus establish the new covenant as a 7 year covenant?????

Is it the year (27 AD which you say starts the 70th week)) that He was cut off as Daniel says

How long was the time period when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews?


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Is part of it found in Matthew 10:5-7?

.

 

[Douggg]

Then show me incontext, grammar and biblically why I am wrong!

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [Alexander]

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms [kingdoms, not kings] shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.[none of those four kingdoms will be as powerful as the nation of Greece when lead by Alexander]

[nolidad, the mistake you are making is that you are reading four kings into the text of v22. ]

23 And in the latter time of their [the transgressors]kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The transgressors' kingdom will be the EU, the kingdom of the ten kings (leaders) and the little horn person of Daniel 7.

 

[jgr]

The shattering of whatever covenant the ANTICHRIST makes with Israel.

Cite any OT verse in which the word "antichrist" appears.
Hint: That could be a problem as the word is nonexistent in ancient Hebrew.
Nonexistents do not make covenants.

Cite any verse in the entirety of Scripture in which "antichrist" is described as a prince.
Hint: You will find nothing.

 

[nolidad]

Yes, really.

Confirming something for a time =/= that something only lasts for that amount of time.


Likewise....please don't minimize this by labeling it "a silly game". It's not. This distortion has caused many people to be blinded to all that Christ's ministry meant & all that it fulfilled.

Well you said that He confirmed the covenant with many for 7 years.

YOu said it was Jesus who did that
You said the covenant was confirmed in 27 AD- The New covenant was not established or even preached then
you said He established for one 7 so that means 27 AD but the new covenant did not start until calvary/Pentecost. (I won't argue the differences of people on this here)

The bible says He established it with many for only 7years! Does that mean that at 34 AD Jews were no longer welcome, for the new covenant Jesus established with Israel reached its' 7 years????? That is the conclusion of you rso called "proofs".

The bible said n the middle of that 7 years Jesus (according to you) will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease! The passage does not say the effectiveness of the e sacrifice and oblation will end (for there are perfectly good words God could have used to express that) but that the sacrifices and oblations themselves will end! They didn't and you have not provided any valid evidence that What God REALLY meant to say was the effectiveness of the sacrifices-- Like god needs us to edit Him?

 

[nolidad]

Exactly....which is what Jesus's first advent had done (established with power and authority - His New Covenant).

Sorry but even if I cede (which I don't) that Jesus is the he who establishes a covenant for 7 years , Jesus did not establish the new Covenant in 27 AD He established it in 30 AD at either His death and resurrection or at Pentecost . so you r timeline doesn't fit to Jesus.

Also SCripture says that Jesus is cut off after 69 weeks (27 AD by you reckoning) and not 69 1/2 weeks.

YOu cannot have Jesus dying after 69 weeks and then causing the supposed effectiveness of the sacrifice cease after 69 1/2 weeks! that is intellectual dishonesty

Then the Covenant made in Daniel- which you say is the new covenant is established only for 7 years! so according to your reinterpretation of the passage God ended the New covenant with the many at 34AD! And that runs contrary to teh rest of teh passages that do deal with Israel and the New covenant.

Nothing you have said can be reconciled with just teh simple passages of Daniel- never mind the rest of SCripture- without redefining the meaning of the terms.

 

[nolidad]

How long was the time period when the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews?


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Is part of it found in Matthew 10:5-7?

.

Well the first known gentile convert was Cornelius. but as Paul was the first to actively preach to the gentiles, the ministry of the gospel to the gentiles was not active until 39 AD.

But you and mikgals problem lies here: You are saying that the covenant Jesus made with the Jews was the new covenant! Well Daniel clearly teaches that the "he" in Daniel 9 (which grammatically and logically cannot be Jesus) establishes a covenant with many of Israel for only 7 years!

So that means you say the new covenant started in 27 ad and ended in 34 ad! that is not what teh new covenant says at all! What happen to Jews after 34 AD with the new covenant lapsed for it reached its 7 years?

Paul wasn't converted till 36 AD. While unsure, many many scholars put Cornelius' conversion at 35 AD which is the 8th year and one year past the 7 years of Daniel! but even if his conversion was in 34 AD as the first gentile converted- no where in Scripture does it say that the new covenant was for Israel only for 7 years as an exclusive thing, then it would be offered to the gentiles. That is an interpretive reading based on a gerrymandering of SCriptures.

 

[nolidad]

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [Alexander]

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms [kingdoms, not kings] shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.[none of those four kingdoms will be as powerful as the nation of Greece when lead by Alexander]

[nolidad, the mistake you are making is that you are reading four kings into the text of v22. ]

23 And in the latter time of their [the transgressors]kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The transgressors' kingdom will be the EU, the kingdom of the ten kings (leaders) and the little horn person of Daniel 7.

YOu keep repeating your last line over and over without biblical evidence!

My line in read was a typo on my part!

We are done! You are now simply being dishonest with the SCriptures to justify your man made charts!

vse 9 and vse 23 can never refer to a future time. You cannot make four = ten except through redefining wordsa and meanings.

Have th elast post between us if you wish!

 

[mkgal1]

Well the covenant of Daniel 9 is a 7 year covenant that gets broken halfway through! That is why! It is simply what is written in Gods Word.

Isaiah says from Divine perspective, this 7 year covenant is:

1. Isaiah 28:15
   Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
   
   
2. Isaiah 28:18
   And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

This was history and not a future prophecy.

What's interesting is that some commentaries state that the Hebrew word used for "death" is a proper pronoun for the Canaanite god of the underworld, Mot (an enemy of Baal).

"Yamm -" Yamm <------article about pagan Canaanite gods.

"Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel by David Steinberg" Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel by David Steinberg
~ more on ancient Canaanite gods...including Mot

 

[mkgal1]

Scripture does it say that the new covenant was for Israel only for 7 years

That's the criteria some people have (a covenant that lasts for 7 years).....and I don't presume to speak for BABerean2....but I am referring to an everlasting covenant that was promised. I don't see a 7 year covenant in Scripture. I see this:

Ezekiel 37:26
And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever.
​

I shared this relevant post in the other thread ------>

God's unyielding covenant love
The first step God takes in repairing this partnership is to select a small group of people and make a new partnership with them called a "covenant." In this covenant, God makes promises to these people and asks them to fulfill certain commitments.

In total, there are four Old Testament covenants—one with Noah, one with Abraham, one with the Israelites, and one with King David. All these covenants serve the purpose of creating a new partnership into which God can eventually invite all humankind. Unfortunately, Israel eventually breaks these covenants with God.

Nevertheless, throughout the Old Testament, prophets talked about a day when God would once again create a new covenant, one that would completely restore all the broken covenants that came before it. This new covenant was fulfilled by God's Son, Jesus Christ. ~ "Covenants in the Bible | BibleProject™" Covenants in the Bible | BibleProject™​

 

[jgr]

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. [Alexander]

22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms [kingdoms, not kings] shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.[none of those four kingdoms will be as powerful as the nation of Greece when lead by Alexander]

[nolidad, the mistake you are making is that you are reading four kings into the text of v22. ]

23 And in the latter time of their [the transgressors]kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

The transgressors' kingdom will be the EU, the kingdom of the ten kings (leaders) and the little horn person of Daniel 7.

YOu keep repeating your last line over and over without biblical evidence!

My line in read was a typo on my part!

We are done! You are now simply being dishonest with the SCriptures to justify your man made charts!

vse 9 and vse 23 can never refer to a future time. You cannot make four = ten except through redefining wordsa and meanings.

Have th elast post between us if you wish!

Well Douggg, at least we can have civil conversations free of puerile tantrums and exclamation marks!!!

 

[BABerean2]

You are saying that the covenant Jesus made with the Jews was the new covenant!

That is what the Bible says in Matthew 26:28, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and many other places.


The text of Daniel 9 says the covenant was "confirmed" with Daniel's people for a period of 7 years.
It does not say the covenant ended after that point.


If Christ's death is in Daniel 9, nobody can honestly say the New Covenant is not a part of Daniel 9 based on the verse below.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


There was a period of time when Jesus specifically commanded that the Gospel be taken only to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7.


You did not really answer the question of when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, based on what Paul said in Romans 1:16?
When did it occur, and how long did it last?


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Douggg]

Well Douggg, at least we can have civil conversations free of puerile tantrums and exclamation marks!!!

Yes!!!!

 

[nolidad]

This was history and not a future prophecy.

What's interesting is that some commentaries state that the Hebrew word used for "death" is a proper pronoun for the Canaanite god of the underworld, Mot (an enemy of Baal).

"Yamm -" Yamm <------article about pagan Canaanite gods.

"Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel by David Steinberg" Israelite Religion to Judaism: the Evolution of the Religion of Israel by David Steinberg
~ more on ancient Canaanite gods...including Mot

Well if it is History then you should point it out. Isaish received his calll c. 742 B.C. so I await what you think is the historic fulfilment of this prophecy.

BTW, Here is the full prophecy- so we await.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

BTW, I do not know what Hebrew commentaries you are using, but Hebrew bibles show death in vse 15 and 18 is "maveth" not Mot. Mot was teh Caananite god of death as they say but maveth or wawet is not derived from this caananite language.

 

[Douggg]

Well if it is History then you should point it out. Isaish received his calll c. 742 B.C. so I await what you think is the historic fulfilment of this prophecy.

BTW, Here is the full prophecy- so we await.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

BTW, I do not know what Hebrew commentaries you are using, but Hebrew bibles show death in vse 15 and 18 is "maveth" not Mot. Mot was teh Caananite god of death as they say but maveth or wawet is not derived from this caananite language.

side comment - your post looks a look better - with no exclamation marks.

 

[nolidad]

That's the criteria some people have (a covenant that lasts for 7 years).....and I don't presume to speak for BABerean2....but I am referring to an everlasting covenant that was promised. I don't see a 7 year covenant in Scripture. I see this:

Ezekiel 37:26
And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever.
​

I shared this relevant post in the other thread ------>

God's unyielding covenant love
The first step God takes in repairing this partnership is to select a small group of people and make a new partnership with them called a "covenant." In this covenant, God makes promises to these people and asks them to fulfill certain commitments.

In total, there are four Old Testament covenants—one with Noah, one with Abraham, one with the Israelites, and one with King David. All these covenants serve the purpose of creating a new partnership into which God can eventually invite all humankind. Unfortunately, Israel eventually breaks these covenants with God.

Nevertheless, throughout the Old Testament, prophets talked about a day when God would once again create a new covenant, one that would completely restore all the broken covenants that came before it. This new covenant was fulfilled by God's Son, Jesus Christ. ~ "Covenants in the Bible | BibleProject™" Covenants in the Bible | BibleProject™​

 

[BABerean2]

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


.

 

[nolidad]

That's the criteria some people have (a covenant that lasts for 7 years).....and I don't presume to speak for BABerean2....but I am referring to an everlasting covenant that was promised. I don't see a 7 year covenant in Scripture. I see this:

Ezekiel 37:26
And I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary among them forever.
​

I shared this relevant post in the other thread ------>

God's unyielding covenant love
The first step God takes in repairing this partnership is to select a small group of people and make a new partnership with them called a "covenant." In this covenant, God makes promises to these people and asks them to fulfill certain commitments.

In total, there are four Old Testament covenants—one with Noah, one with Abraham, one with the Israelites, and one with King David. All these covenants serve the purpose of creating a new partnership into which God can eventually invite all humankind. Unfortunately, Israel eventually breaks these covenants with God.

Nevertheless, throughout the Old Testament, prophets talked about a day when God would once again create a new covenant, one that would completely restore all the broken covenants that came before it. This new covenant was fulfilled by God's Son, Jesus Christ. ~ "Covenants in the Bible | BibleProject™" Covenants in the Bible | BibleProject™​

Sorry for the last post without a response.

You don't see a 7 year covenant in the Scripture?

Well then let me post it for about the 15th time!

Dan. 9: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,

It don't get much plainer than that! A he (you say is Jesus) will establish a powerful covenant (gabar) with many for 7 years (one week)

Now you demand that Jesus is spoken of in this verse of Daniel and He establishes the New covenant with many for 7 years beginning in 27 AD according to you. So we don't know what happened to the covenant in 34 AD because you also call this an everlasting covenant! I also agree the new covenant is everlasting but let us look at the actual words of teh new covenant again, for about teh tenth time:

JER 31:

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:

36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

1. God says the New covenant is with all of Israel and all of Judah (that is the meaning of the house of)
1A. Daniel 9 says that covenant is with just many.

2. Verse 32 this covenant is unlike the covenant made (Mosaic) which Israel broke.
2A No mention of this in the 7 year covenant of Daniel 9

3. God will be the God of Israel and Judah and write His laws in their heart!
3A. Halfway through Daniel 9 the stat of overspreading of abominations and desolations begin.

4. Every Jew will know the Lord and God will forgive all their iniquity!
4A Where is forgiveness mentioned in Daniel 9???

You correctly say the new covenant is everlasting but the Daniel 9 covenant is only for 7 years! that is plain language that shows the covenant in Daniel 9 is not the new covenant. Not all Jews know the Lord and that is a requirement of the new covenant- which according to you r last quote was fulfilled in Jesus!

I await to see your allegorical opinings to make Daniel 9 and Jeremiah 31 speak of the same covenant!

 

[nolidad]

The text of Daniel 9 says the covenant was "confirmed" with Daniel's people for a period of 7 years.
It does not say the covenant ended after that point.

but the argument is made that the covenant in Daniel 9 is the new covenant! And in my last post I showed in answering mikgal1 why this is theologically, grammatically, exegetically and biblically impossible.

You did not really answer the question of when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, based on what Paul said in Romans 1:16?
When did it occur, and how long did it last?

Well then let me be very specific.

The gospel of the kingdom ( simply repent for the kingdom of god is at hand) Started with John the Baptist in 27 AD. Jesus and the disciples preach the gospel of the kingdom starting after the call of the twelve until approx. 29 AD, when the nation of Israel committed the unpardonable sin and th eoffer of teh kingdom was removed from that generation.

However the gospel of salvation (trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and you will be saved) did not begin until after Pentecost. It was not preached before then.

I already showed the dates of when Cornelius, the first known gentile saved heard teh gospel and when Paul first started his ministry of preaching the gospel to the gentiles (after he first went to teh Jews in every town). And the historic timeline does not fit the allegorical 7 years!

There was a period of time when Jesus specifically commanded that the Gospel be taken only to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7.

I really really hope you do not believe that the gospel the disciples preached then is the same gospel we preach now!

If Christ's death is in Daniel 9, nobody can honestly say the New Covenant is not a part of Daniel 9 based on the verse below.

That is a joining of the two passages with no merit!

1. Daniel is just reporting on the future death of the Messiah.
2. In Daniel 9 Messiah dies after 69 weeks! that screws up yours and mikgals and the video guys timelines! That means Jesus died in 27 AD.
3. IT DOES NOY SAY Messiah is cut off after 69 1/2 weeks!
4. Jesus cannot be cut aff after 69 weeks and then at 69 1/2 weeks causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease (which they didn't)

 

[nolidad]

That is what the Bible says in Matthew 26:28, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and many other places.


The text of Daniel 9 says the covenant was "confirmed" with Daniel's people for a period of 7 years.
It does not say the covenant ended after that point.


If Christ's death is in Daniel 9, nobody can honestly say the New Covenant is not a part of Daniel 9 based on the verse below.

Heb 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


There was a period of time when Jesus specifically commanded that the Gospel be taken only to Israel in Matthew 10:5-7.


You did not really answer the question of when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, based on what Paul said in Romans 1:16?
When did it occur, and how long did it last?


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

You posted this guy before and He is still today as he was when you first posted him.

He lies about this Riveral priest. He also is guilty of allegorizing Scriptures to force them to fit into his reinterpretation of Daniel.

If you simply reads the prophecy of Daniel as written, and searched history for the answers, you will find that Daniel 9:27 is not finished! And it certainly cannot ever be ( I used to think to even the most far out allegorist) the new covenant! For if it is the new covenant then you and Mikgal are saying that the new covenant is no longer going out to Jews! Because the covenant of Daniel 9 was made for only 7 years.

It is not the exclusive preaching of the gospel to Jews only- The new covenant does not say that and that thought is simply dishonestly applying opinion ot the SCriptures!