Has the Holy Spirit explicitly led you to keep the Sabbath?

clefty

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The Lord's day is the Sabbath day - Matthew 12:8. There is no mention of Sunday being "the Lords day" in the bible. This is a Catholic teaching that is not biblical.

Could also be judgement day?

Catholics do not teach it is Sunday as they claim they determined Sunday by their tradition and it is not in the Bible but by their claimed authority outside of scripture...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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What a load of garbage about Sunday being the day of worship for Apollos. What it fails to recognize is that pagans worships pagan gods every day of the week. How do you think each day of the week got its name? Every day of the week is named after a pagan god. By this logic one could just as easily say that Sabbatarians worship the god of Saturn because that’s what Saturday was named for. There’s nothing in the Christian church that involves worshipping apollos or any other pagan god.

For the Romans it was the venerable day of the Sun to the Sun God Sol Invictus. There is no scripture to tell Christians to worship God on Sunday and that Sunday is a Holy day. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has lead many to break God's 4th commandment handed down to Christianity from the Roman Catholic Church. Jesus warns us about following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9. BABYLON has fallen and God is calling all who have ears to hear back to his Word.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Could also be judgement day?
Catholics do not teach it is Sunday as they claim they determined Sunday by their tradition and it is not in the Bible but by their claimed authority outside of scripture...

Revelation 1:10 is not a reference to judgement day in the Greek. Catholics do teach the Lords' day is Sunday which is the origin of this teaching handed down to Christianity.
 
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clefty

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But neither is continuing in known unrepentant sin (breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments) once God gives us a knowledge of the truth and we reject it *Hebrews 10:26-31. We are saved by God's grace through faith. We keep God's commandments not to be saved but because we love God *John 14:15 which is the fruit of faith.

Yes that is also true...
 
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Bob S

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Sure here you go Bob...
HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH
Your welcome
You cannot even quote the verse as it is written. What does that say for your integrity???? 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Remember the verses pertaining to verse 9 tells us that the Hebrews never entered the rest God had for them. Yet there is still a rest that we can have. Well, The Hebrews observed the Seventh day yet they didn't enter that rest. You observe the same Seventh day same as the Hebrews did. The conundrum is that the rest you enter is not the same rest Hebrews 4:9 is referring. Our rest is TODAY as the verses reveal. Our rest is in Jesus. He has invited us to enter His rest and you ignore His invitation just as the Hebrews did.

My invitation still stands. Show us in the New Testament where we are to keep the Seventh day or for that matter any day.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You cannot even quote the verse as it is written. What does that say for your integrity???? 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Remember the verses pertaining to verse 9 tells us that the Hebrews never entered the rest God had for them. Yet there is still a rest that we can have. Well, The Hebrews observed the Seventh day yet they didn't enter that rest. You observe the same Seventh day same as the Hebrews did. The conundrum is that the rest you enter is not the same rest Hebrews 4:9 is referring. Our rest is TODAY as the verses reveal. Our rest is in Jesus. He has invited us to enter His rest and you ignore His invitation just as the Hebrews did.

My invitation still stands. Show us in the New Testament where we are to keep the Seventh day or for that matter any day.

Nope! That is definitely not true but no worries Bob lets see why through the scriptures. I did quote the verse as it is written. Firstly your ignoring the context of HEBREWS 4:1-5 which is in reference to the "seventh day Sabbath" that is defined as God's rest that many did not enter into because of their sins and unbelief. The gospel it says in v3 was preached unto them as well as us (two preaching of the Gospel; one in the days of Joshua but they did not believe and the 2nd in the day of JESUS) but did not profit them not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. It says here that "We which believe (present tense indicative) do enter into rest" That is "NOW" Bob not sometime in the future now we enter into God's Sabbath rest when we believe and follow the gospel of Gods' Word. Gods rest is defined in Hebrews 4:1-5 as the seventh day Sabbath of creation. "Now if you hear His voice (the Word), harden not your heart as in the day of the provocation." Psalms 95 is David's Psalm that Paul is referring to here the another day is the day of the Gospel of our Lord JESUS Christ where we which believe enter into God's Sabbath rest...

HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

No one rests in Christ by not believing God's Word and breaking God's commandments. This is exactly the group of people that we are being WARNED about in Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4.

Once again, your welcome
 
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Bob S

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Bob, thanks for the answer. I am sorry for your experience with the SDA church. I think to be fair, your experience is not everyone's experience and its certainly not mine or the other 2+ million members. If our sole purpose is to bring people to God wouldn't your time be better served trying to persuade other non-believers into believing instead of hanging around on the Sabbath forums, who in your opinion, just have the wrong day (despite your admission there is no scriptural evidence that Sunday keeping is a day that God Blessed or asked us to keep Holy). It seems your reason for trying to persuade people to not keep God's Sabbath is a self-serving reason. If you don't think people who keep Sabbath will burn in hell, why don't spend your time bringing non-believers to God. Sabbath keepers already believe in God. Maybe something to pray about?

PS Also, I wrote once you provide scripture that God Blessed Sunday or made it Holy I would provide scripture on the new covenant. Since you could not do that I only referenced it. There's not much of a point to provide the scriptures, you know it but refuse to believe it. @LoveGodsWord has provided detailed scriptures for you multiple times.
Just a little parroting... Wouldn't it be better for you, instead of hanging around here, to go out and spread the Good news of the plan of salvation? Actually, I have no idea what you do for our Savior and I certainly would not judge you even if I knew. Judging is not part of my MOS and is well above my pay grade.

As to my believing Sabbath keepers JUST have the wrong day, I maybe you haven't been around long enough to realize that there are many cracks in the SDA belief system. This forum is just about Sabbath and the Law. I try to stay within those bounds. I would be glad to have a private conversation with you.

To me your post is the pot calling the kettle black. I certainly do not owe you what I do with my time, but for instance I will tell you that today I will be volunteering at our local hospital. Your judgment of me has no merit.

Now to the meat of our debate. Actually, it is a one sided debate because even though you promised to answer my request you continue to renege. Why do you put the burden on the back of LGW who I really do take issue.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Just a little parroting... Wouldn't it be better for you, instead of hanging around here, to go out and spread the Good news of the plan of salvation? Actually, I have no idea what you do for our Savior and I certainly would not judge you even if I knew. Judging is not part of my MOS and is well above my pay grade.

As to my believing Sabbath keepers JUST have the wrong day, I maybe you haven't been around long enough to realize that there are many cracks in the SDA belief system. This forum is just about Sabbath and the Law. I try to stay within those bounds. I would be glad to have a private conversation with you.

To me your post is the pot calling the kettle black. I certainly do not owe you what I do with my time, but for instance I will tell you that today I will be volunteering at our local hospital. Your judgment of me has no merit.

Now to the meat of our debate. Actually, it is a one sided debate because even though you promised to answer my request you continue to renege. Why do you put the burden on the back of LGW who I really do take issue.
I never regened I clearly stated as soon as you can provide any refences in the Bible that God deemed Sunday and day of "Rest" or made "Holy" or "Sanctified" or "Blessed" since you could not, the deal was off. That's how those sorts of things work.

Regarding not being around long enough in the SDA church, that's not the case. I was a Pastors Kid - SDA church. My grandma is the most devout SDA Christian I have ever known. To this day her face still glows. Living for God is not always easy, but the Bible says if we keep His commandments He will provide a Helper John 14:15-18. I lost my way for a while and lived for the world. Not to brag, but I was pretty successful in terms of worldly things. The thing that I was missing was peace. No material item, or stupid Netflix show, or any other worldly thing made me happy and I definitely did not have peace until I started obeying God's commandments. So your story is not everyones story. I wish things were different for you. Like I said before, I will pray for you.

I'll try to PM on the rest of our topic.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The Lord's day is the Sabbath day - Matthew 12:8. There is no mention of Sunday being "the Lords day" in the bible. This is a Catholic teaching that is not biblical.

There’s no mention of the Bible in the Bible either or it being the word of God. How do you know the Bible is the word of God?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Could also be judgement day?

Catholics do not teach it is Sunday as they claim they determined Sunday by their tradition and it is not in the Bible but by their claimed authority outside of scripture...

Their claimed authority as being churches established by the apostles. I can’t seem to find Ellen White listed among the apostles in my bible for some reason. :scratch:
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Their claimed authority as being churches established by the apostles. I can’t seem to find Ellen White listed among the apostles in my bible for some reason. :scratch:
Either is Sunday being a Holy day. Ellen White came long after the Bible was established. She has never claimed to be apostle in the Bible. Again, not sure what your point is.
 
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BNR32FAN

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For the Romans it was the venerable day of the Sun to the Sun God Sol Invictus. There is no scripture to tell Christians to worship God on Sunday and that Sunday is a Holy day. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has lead many to break God's 4th commandment handed down to Christianity from the Roman Catholic Church. Jesus warns us about following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9. BABYLON has fallen and God is calling all who have ears to hear back to his Word.

Acts 15 the apostles abolished circumcision by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, or so they claim. How do you know that this was from the Holy Spirit and not their own “man made teaching that breaks God’s commandments”?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Acts 15 the apostles abolished circumcision by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, or so they claim. How do you know that this was from the Holy Spirit and not their own “man made teaching that breaks God’s commandments”?
Can you please show me where circumcision is in Gods 10 commandments?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Either is Sunday being a Holy day. Ellen White came long after the Bible was established. She has never claimed to be apostle in the Bible, more of a messenger. Again, not sure what your point is.

So Ellen White has more authority in the church than the church the apostles established? She is somehow able to interpret the scriptures more accurately than the church the apostles established?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Can you please show me where circumcision is in Gods 10 commandments?

Why are only God’s 10 commandments to be obeyed. I thought we were talking about God’s commandments not just 10 of them and can you please point out where the dietary laws are in the 10 commandments?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So Ellen White has more authority in the church than the church the apostles established? She is somehow able to interpret the scriptures more accurately than the church the apostles established?
No, the Bible is the sole authority. The Bible scriptures are pretty clear for the most part, most just choose not to go by the Bible and instead rely on man-made traditions. The SDA church is based on the Bible teachings. Ellen White helped form the church on the basis Saturday is the Sabbath like God wrote with His own finger and Jesus and His disciples kept. Don't you want use Jesus as our example and follow His way instead of the tradition of man?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Why are only God’s 10 commandments to be obeyed. I thought we were talking about God’s commandments not just 10 of them and can you please point out where the dietary laws are in the 10 commandments?
You were talking about circumcision. The dietary guidelines are not in Gods commandments, but since He created us He left those for us to know what foods are good for us and which foods are not. There is a study that breaks down all of the unclean foods and research has shown they are unhealthy. I'll see if I can find it.

Seems like you ask a lot of questions, but never answer any. :scratch:
 
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BNR32FAN

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No, the Bible is the sole authority. The Bible scriptures are pretty clear for the most part, most just choose not to go by the Bible and instead rely on man-made traditions. The SDA church is based on the Bible teachings. Ellen White helped form the church on the basis Saturday is the Sabbath like God wrote with His own finger and Jesus and His disciples kept. Don't you want use Jesus as our example and follow His way instead of the tradition of man?

How do you know the Bible is the sole authority?
 
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BNR32FAN

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You were talking about circumcision. The dietary guidelines are not in Gods commandments, but since He created us He left those for us to know what foods are good for us and which foods are not. There is a study that breaks down all of the unclean foods and research has shown they are unhealthy. I'll see if I can find it.

Seems like you ask a lot of questions, but never answer any. :scratch:

Im sorry what question did I miss?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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This was not the study I was looking for about how unhealthy the unclean foods are listed in the Bible, but it will do for now. God sure knows what is best for us after all He is our creator.

Chapter Three - The Dangers of Unclean Meats— A Medical Perspective

Why are some meats considered unclean by God? As noted earlier, it is not God’s intention to deny mankind legitimate pleasure and enjoyment from the consumption of foods. Look at the vast array of foods—with an incredible variety of textures and flavors—God has created for us to enjoy. Does it really make sense that God would forbid man to eat pork, catfish, shellfish, rabbit, and numerous other meats for any reason except to protect us from damaging or ruining our health?

One of the key purposes of the Bible is to reveal things to mankind that we could not otherwise discover on our own. God tells us in Scripture which animals are not good for food because we would simply have no other way of knowing. Trial and error may effectively indicate that a certain food is harmful if there is immediate and consistent harm following consumption. But the long -term consumption of unclean meats typically results in the slow, chronic degeneration of one’s health—something that cannot be easily traced to a specific cause.

Modern medical science is finally beginning to “catch up” to God as they discover why certain animal meats are less healthy than others. But from their perspective, the picture is far from black and white. For example, people are routinely warned of the dangers of eating pork, yet told that proper cooking is the solution. But why not just stop eating pork altogether?


Pork—A “Homo-Toxin”
Of all the world’s animals, the pig is one of the most unclean—yet it is hailed as the “other white meat.” Pigs are ravenous scavengers and will eat any kind of food, including garbage, maggots, rodents, rotting carcasses, excrement—even their own offspring. Farmers often use pigs as virtual “garbage disposals”—which includes things like dead chickens. But even farmers who claim their pigs are fed a grain-only diet cannot stop the animals from eating rodents (carriers of numerous parasites and diseases) and feces.

Swine are excellent incubators of toxic parasites and viruses, and often carry a variety of disease-causing organisms while appearing to be healthy. According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), numerous viruses and other infectious agents are brought into the United States each year in pigs (mostly from China). Of course, you’re probably familiar with H1N1, better known as the “swine flu”—a virus that has made the leap from pig to human.3

In his book The Genesis Diet, Dr. Gordon Tessler writes that “the indiscriminate eating patterns of omnivores like pigs make them disease carriers. Pigs are known to carry up to 200 diseases and 18 different parasites and worms, including the deadly [round] worm called trichinella spiralis…. Trichinosis [the disease caused by this particular worm] can mimic other diseases such as arthritis, rheumatism, or typhoid fever…. Perhaps many other diseases are misdiagnosed [when] their real cause is … [the] many parasites found in the flesh of the unclean swine. A person may be committing slow suicide when he or she eats bacon, ham, sausage, or pork chops.” Tessler adds that pork “should be considered a homo-toxin (human poison) and the probable cause of many common sicknesses and degenerative diseases.” 4

As a disease, trichinosis was once quite common—and fatal. Once ingested via infected meat, trichinella spiralis cysts are dissolved in the stomach, releasing the young worms. The worms then pass into the small intestine where they mature and mate. The female lays eggs that develop into immature worms, which travel extensively though the arteries into muscle tissue where they become encysted.

Both tapeworms (also carried by pigs) and trichinosis can cause a significant inflammatory response in the body, leading to numerous chronic conditions. Often, however, there are no obvious symptoms—or the symptoms resemble those of other illnesses (such as the flu). This has led to the frequent misdiagnosis or nondiagnosis of the disease. The CDC reports that just under three dozen cases of pork related trichinosis occurred from 1997 to 2007.5 These are officially diagnosed cases. But because the disease goes easily unrecognized, some believe as many as one in six are infected in the United States and Canada! 6

Research conducted in Bolivia illustrates the point that trichinosis can be unknowingly prevalent in a population. The Bolivian government noted that zero cases of trichinosis had been reported over a period of several years. Puzzled, they began testing pigs, and discovered that at least 25 percent were infected. Subsequently, they tested a cross-section of the general population and discovered widespread infection. The primary symptoms of trichinosis in humans are headaches, muscle aches, fever, and swelling of the extremities. Because these are nonspecific symptoms that do not necessarily indicate any one particular disease, those infected were simply unaware that they were suffering from trichinosis. 7

This begs the question: how many people unknowingly suffer from pork-derived trichinosis while assuming that they are dealing with a common degenerative condition?

Central to the problem is that the CDC declares pork safe as long as it is well cooked. But apparently not everyone cooks pork well enough! The fact is, trichinosis is actually difficult to kill when cooking. This is why there are so many warnings about eating undercooked pork. The CDC gives this warning on their Web site: “If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.”8 But God had long ago warned people of this very risk—don’t defile yourself by eating what is unclean.

Dr. Rex Russell has studied the dangers of pork for decades. A graduate of Baylor School of Medicine in Houston, Texas, Russell writes: “Many outbreaks of vicious infections have developed in so-called cooked food. If the food is [biblically] unclean, don’t count on cooking it to protect you…. A sobering report from Scotland revealed that food poisoning by toxins, virus or bacteria occurred in spite of thorough inspection at every stage of food preparation, including handling and cooking.” 9

He continues: “One reason for God’s rule forbidding pork is that the digestive system of a pig is completely different from that of a cow…. Pigs are gluttonous, never knowing when to stop eating. Their stomach acids become diluted because of the volume of food, allowing all kinds of vermin to pass through this [would-be] protective barrier. Parasites, bacteria, viruses, and toxins can pass into the pigs flesh because of overeating. These toxins and infectious agents can be passed on to humans when they eat a pig’s flesh.” 10

Why do pigs carry more disease and toxins than other farm animals? Aside from the dangerous garbage they typically eat, part of the answer has to do with their digestive systems. A pig digests whatever it eats rather quickly, in four hours or less. This fast transit time does not allow for the efficient removal of toxins from the system; the result is that toxins tend to be absorbed and stored in fat, muscle tissue, and organs—which are then eaten by people. Another issue is that pigs lack toxin-eliminating sweat glands. Thus, swine are typically toxin-saturated, and cooking does nothing to eliminate toxins. 11

By contrast, a cow takes a good 24 hours to digest the grass, hay, or grain it has eaten. This is typical of clean animals that chew the cud. The slow transit time—made possible by their multi-stomach design—allows for complete digestion and the efficient removal of any present toxins.

Pigs have high histamine levels (no doubt as an immune response to their own toxicity), which cause allergic reactions in many people. Their tissues are also particularly rich in sulfur. Too much sulfur is dangerous because it causes a corresponding loss of calcium, potentially leading to osteoporosis (in general, meat-rich diets are linked to bone loss). Moreover, studies have shown that over 50 percent of pigs are contaminated with salmonella by the time they reach the processing plant (compare this to only 15 percent of clean animals). 12


A Mysterious Swine Related Blood Disorder
Aside from the dangers already discussed, the consumption of pork appears to have a mysterious detrimental effect on human blood clotting mechanisms. In her book Nourishing Traditions, Sally Fallon writes: “Investigation into the effects of pork consumption on blood chemistry has revealed serious changes [lasting] for several hours after pork is consumed. The pork used [in theses tests] was organic and free of trichinosis, so the changes that occurred in the blood were due to some other factor, possibly a protein unique to pork. In the laboratory, pork is one of the best mediums for feeding the growth of cancer cells. The prohibition against pork found in the Bible and the Koran may thus derive from something other than a concern for parasite contamination.” 13

Fallon cites a study conducted by the Weston Price Foundation on the effects of pork consumption on blood chemistry. The organization’s findings were summarized by Beverly Rubik, Ph.D.— who participated in the study—in the Foundation’s quarterly journal Wise Traditions in Food, Farming and the Healing Arts. According to Rubik, the research involved feeding either marinated or nonmarinated cooked pork chops to test subjects, followed by an analysis of their blood chemistry over a period of several hours. Blood can be easily monitored for rapid changes in response to the introduction of substances such as nutrients, drugs, toxins, etc. The blood was examined using advanced dark-field microscopes, which give an excellent view of the blood’s “biological terrain” including such factors as the stickiness of red blood cells and their tendency to aggregate and clot, as well as the formation of fibrin, the chief clotting protein.

The study demonstrated that the consumption of non-marinated pork has a profound effect on human blood chemistry. Rubik writes: “The results show unequivocally that consuming un-marinated cooked pork shows a significant negative effect on the blood. Five hours after consumption, subjects showed extremely coagulated blood, with extensive red blood cell (RBC) rouleaux (cells in the formation of stacked coins), RBC aggregates, and the presence of clotting factors, especially fibrin.” She adds that “not a single free-floating RBC was observed” in the blood samples. 14

The changes “appeared quite rapidly, in less than ten minutes after blood draw, and did not clear up during an hour of observing the blood under the microscope.” Moreover, some of the subjects “felt fatigued after eating the pork chop, which suggests reduced peripheral blood circulation due to RBC stickiness and aggregation. Because the tiniest micro-capillaries are smaller than the diameter of a single blood cell, each cell must pass through singly and deform its shape in order to do so; blood cell aggregates simply cannot pass through [such capillaries].” 15

It is widely accepted that blood clotting disorders are a causative factor in chronic systemic inflammation, which is at the root of chronic disease. Rubik notes that “this condition in the blood, if chronic, is associated with increased risk of chronic degenerative disease, including cardiovascular disease, cancer, autoimmune disorders and others.” 16

Apparently, the consumption of marinated pork does not produce the same changes in blood clotting as caused by the consumption of non-marinated pork. Rubik and her colleagues are at a loss to explain why. She speculates that “pork contains a toxin”—or perhaps, as suggested by Fallon, an unidentified rogue protein—“that heat alone from cooking cannot destroy,” but is somehow rendered harmless through the fermentation of marinating. 17

Much of the pork consumed today is not marinated. Yet how many people who routinely eat pork are aware of the serious changes taking place in their blood chemistry? Undoubtedly, pork’s ability to restrict normal micro-capillary blood flow is a significant factor in today’s epidemic of degenerative disease.


Rabbits Eat Their Own Excrement
Rabbit is still consumed in many parts of the world, including the United States. While rabbits do chew the cud, they have paws and not cloven hooves. Thus, they are defined as unclean in Scripture. But even the hare’s chewing of cud is suspect, being unlike that of other ruminants. In order for the rabbit to obtain sufficient nutrients from the vegetation it eats, it must ferment what it ingests. This requires a fermentation chamber with an alkaline environment. Unlike the cow, the rabbit does not have a rumen, or “prestomach”—but it does have an unusually large caecum. In rabbits, the caecum (basically a pouch where nutrients are absorbed) is located between the intestine and the rectum. According to researchers, the cud the rabbit chews comes from this area and is contaminated with feces. Thus, the rabbit is coprophagic—an animal that consumes its own excrement. 18

Consequently, the toxicity levels of rabbits are significantly higher than in other herbivores. Bile salts, fatty acids, gases, and ammonia levels are all at unacceptable levels for human consumption. Many other rodents have similar digestive issues.
 
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