Conversion therapy

[Carl Emerson]

"any form of treatment" is a big umbrella.

 

[Philip_B]

For the thousandth time, it would depend on what you did and how you did it.

The complexity is the confusion of the deed and the person, and what I have observed of practice in this area it has tended to diminish a person created in the image and after the likeness of God themselves, and rather than lifting them up seems to be placing heavy burdens upon them. You have to be very sure that what you do is born of love for God and for the person, and not stemming from some form of homophobia be it clear or disguised. There are more profitable things for a christian to be doing.

 

[Paidiske]

"any form of treatment" is a big umbrella.

But not inappropriately so.

 

[Quartermaine]

Implying I am not honest does not help your cause.

Lets stick to the topic rather than slipping into slander.

i didn't say you. the claims of conversion or reparative therapy are demonstrably lies and as noted lying is not a spiritual act.

 

[Quartermaine]

Did Jesus make false claims?

Jesus didn't claim that homosexuality was an illness or a defect or even something that needed to be cured much less saying it could be "cured"

 

[Carl Emerson]

Lot and his family were the only ones righteous and sexual perversion was rife in Sodom.

Jesus as part of the Godhead rained down fire and brimstone and wiped the wickedness out.

And you think what they were doing was OK ???

This was the judgement of God.

I will go with that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus didn't claim that homosexuality was an illness or a defect or even something that needed to be cured much less saying it could be "cured"

So he guy in post #53 is a fake...

In our country, Sy Rogers was wonderfully set free and restored and ministered at a high level in the church. This was well known and his restoration was fully embraced by all.

Sy Rogers - Wikipedia

 

[honey badger]

Job and his family were the only ones righteous and sexual perversion was rife in Sodom.

Jesus as part of the Godhead rained down fire and brimstone and wiped the wickedness out.

And you think what they were doing was OK ???

This was the judgement of God.

I will go with that.

"Job and his family were the only ones righteous and sexual perversion was rife in Sodom."

Lot lived in Sodom, Job was from the land of Uz and he was not righteous but self righteous ...

 

[Carl Emerson]

"Job and his family were the only ones righteous and sexual perversion was rife in Sodom."

Lot lived in Sodom, Job was from the land of Uz and he was not righteous but self righteous ...

Sorry HB I was thinking of Lot and typed Job - senior moment.

I will change it...

 

[honey badger]

Sorry HB I was thinking of Lot and typed Job - senior moment.

I will change it...

no worries .... gave me a reason to post so as to get notified ....

 

[Anthony2019]

So he guy in post #53 is a fake...

In our country, Sy Rogers was wonderfully set free and restored and ministered at a high level in the church. This was well known and his restoration was fully embraced by all.

Sy Rogers - Wikipedia

I'm not saying that these kind of experiences cannot happen, but they are extremely rare. The overwhelming majority of Christians who are LGBT, even through prayer and counselling, have not been able to change their sexual orientation.

In 2012, Exodus International formally renounced conversation therapy due to the fact that 99.9% of people did not report a change in their sexual orientation.

Experience has consistently taught us that sexuality for the majority of people is fixed and unchangeable.

We are taught as Christians that God answers prayer according to His will. If thousands of Christian men and women are consistently praying for the same thing and nothing happens, we need to be asking ourselves whether what they are praying for is aligned with His will. I remain unconvinced that God wants to change people's sexuality and I think the church needs to start looking at a totally different pastoral approach.

 

[Carl Emerson]

In 2012, Exodus International formally renounced conversation therapy due to the fact that 99.9% of people did not report a change in their sexual orientation.

After all this dialogue, I still don't know exactly what the ministry entailed...

 

[Paidiske]

Detail seems hard to come by, but there is a little information here: Exodus International – WRSP

 

[Carl Emerson]

Mmmm... maybe the devil is in the detail which is hard to come by.

Personally I think that it is not about banning a 'therapy' but making it illegal to disagree with the hypothesis that sexual preference is inborn and cant be changed.

Yet some do... so at that point the whole thrust for enforcing a theory to be believed is in itself ethically wrong.

Using law to force belief is in itself abuse in my opinion.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[honey badger]

Mmmm... maybe the devil is in the detail which is hard to come by.

Personally I think that it is not about banning a 'therapy' but making it illegal to disagree with the hypothesis that sexual preference is inborn and cant be changed.

Yet some do... so at that point the whole thrust for enforcing a theory to be believed is in itself ethically wrong.

Using law to force belief is in itself abuse in my opinion.

Thanks for the discussion.

in the light of the scriptures which speak to our souls journey of a there and back , in order to keep the law of our Father we must first keep the law of our mother, seeing we can only turn from sin when we understand what sin is ... understanding that this is the purpose of God for His law/word/seed/son as a truth cast down is where we pick it back up again ... it is a baptism of water or a rest unto death of which the baptism of fire as the second death is a rest unto life .... a casting down and a picking back up ...

i see homosexuality and every other description of sin as an effect of sin, and seeing those who minister in the church be they trained psychologists or psychiatrists or not have no knowledge let alone understanding of what the cause of sin is, prey tell how are they to administer any therapy to the effect of something they do not know the cause of !

kind of like ... no just like trying to remove a speck from someone's eye whist you have a beam in your own ....

 

[Quartermaine]

So he guy in post #53 is a fake...

I addressed him in post #73.

 

[Quartermaine]

I'm not saying that these kind of experiences cannot happen, but they are extremely rare. The overwhelming majority of Christians who are LGBT, even through prayer and counselling, have not been able to change their sexual orientation.

In 2012, Exodus International formally renounced conversation therapy due to the fact that 99.9% of people did not report a change in their sexual orientation.

Experience has consistently taught us that sexuality for the majority of people is fixed and unchangeable.

We are taught as Christians that God answers prayer according to His will. If thousands of Christian men and women are consistently praying for the same thing and nothing happens, we need to be asking ourselves whether what they are praying for is aligned with His will. I remain unconvinced that God wants to change people's sexuality and I think the church needs to start looking at a totally different pastoral approach.

Sy Rogers refereed to himself as a "former homosexual" not as a heterosexual, he didn't change his orientation.

 

[Quartermaine]

Mmmm... maybe the devil is in the detail which is hard to come by.

Personally I think that it is not about banning a 'therapy' but making it illegal to disagree with the hypothesis that sexual preference is inborn and cant be changed.

Yet some do... so at that point the whole thrust for enforcing a theory to be believed is in itself ethically wrong.

Using law to force belief is in itself abuse in my opinion.

Thanks for the discussion.

you can disagree with anything you want. you can disagree that bacteria and viruses cause illness and and insist that disease is the result of ghosts of long dead extra-terrestrials feeding off the life force of the living but if you pose as a doctor and use a vacuum cleaner to treat covid 19 then you will be stopped by the authorities.

 

[Anthony2019]

you can disagree with anything you want. you can disagree that bacteria and viruses cause illness and and insist that disease is the result of ghosts of long dead extra-terrestrials feeding off the life force of the living but if you pose as a doctor and use a vacuum cleaner to treat covid 19 then you will be stopped by the authorities.

Your description made me chuckle!
Personally I believe that faith communities should be free to believe whatever they like regarding sexuality. I don't necessarily agree with their views, but that is their choice. And if people choose to go to their services to seek their support, then again that is their choice.
What I don't agree with is that people who promote conversion therapy should be allowed to practice as licensed therapists. Since the therapies they offer are primarily based on their own personal beliefs rather than evidence based practice, they do not meet the professional and regulatory requirements for becoming a practitioner.

 

[nolidad]

so they aren't still mis-defining them

I do not know what the manuals are defining orientation and identity as now. They may or may not have changed. They do change a lot!