Conversion therapy

[Paidiske]

You need to stop sinning or at least want to to be a christian, you cannot embrace your sins and be a christian, a thief, liar, murderer, fornicator, adulterer, homosexual, need to stop doing all that or you will be on step one, 'the repentance of your sins' all your 'christian' life. I don't know if such person who at least doesn't try to stop sinning is going to find the favour of God.

Lets go back to the gospel as it really is please.

Again, we need to disambiguate orientation and behaviour.

 

[NBB]

Again, we need to disambiguate orientation and behaviour.

A person who has only 'gay feelings' problems and is ashamed of it wouldn't want to call themselves gay.

 

[Paidiske]

A person who has only 'gay feelings' problems and is ashamed of it wouldn't want to call themselves gay.

Well, I don't know that it's that simple. I know that some Christians find that kind of language helpful for describing their struggles. Either way, it's not the orientation which Scripture speaks against, but particular actions.

 

[NBB]

Well, I don't know that it's that simple. I know that some Christians find that kind of language helpful for describing their struggles. Either way, it's not the orientation which Scripture speaks against, but particular actions.

I said that because people usually say they 'identify' with this or that, and that thing is something they like/approve of...

If orientation is where your are headed or what you aim for, then you don't want to aim that way, also i don't think wanting to steal something is something God would approve of, same with wanting romance/sexual stuff with people of your same gender. Basically you don't have here an 'orientation' you have a problem that you need help from God to deal with it.

 

[Paidiske]

If orientation is where your are headed or what you aim for...

That's not what it means in this context.

 

[nolidad]

the only quacks i know of are those engaging in conversion therapy and none of them are psychiatrists.

I agree there are quacks seeking to do "conversion therapy".

But quacks abound everywhere is you expand whom you get to know!

 

[Carl Emerson]

You need to stop sinning or at least want to to be a christian, you cannot embrace your sins and be a christian, a thief, liar, murderer, fornicator, adulterer, homosexual, need to stop doing all that or you will be on step one, 'the repentance of your sins' all your 'christian' life. I don't know if such person who at least doesn't try to stop sinning is going to find the favour of God.

Lets go back to the gospel as it really is please.

I agree with you but it seems God has a timetable to deal with issues in each life - not all issues are touched with His redemptive hand on day one.

Personally I believe that Paul is talking about this in 1 Cor 4:5

 

[Junia]

I agree with you but it seems God has a timetable to deal with issues in each life - not all issues are touched with His redemptive hand on day one.

Personally I believe that Paul is talking about this in 1 Cor 4:5

I

Amen!!

 

[Junia]

If orientation is a form of temptation as Carl says and this makes sense to me, then as temptation is not sin, someone who is same sex attracted can honour God by staying celibate and therefore not giving into their temptation and thus sinning

I hAve seen God set some Christians free from same sex attractions, myself included, and I have also seen Christians (whom for reasons I have no idea of) have not been set free but choose not to act on their feelings. I don't know why they aren't set free but I do see how much they love Jesus and how much they don't want to sin against Him. I actually have great respect for them because they could easily buy into the lie that their sexuality defines them and so they might as well give in to it,but they choose to please God instead.

 

[Junia]

There is judgement for wilful sin. Never for temptation, mental disorder, weakness, addiction, etc...

Many Christian alcoholics who have become sober and repented with help from aa programmes refer to themselves as recovering alcoholics, Because they know they are just one sip away from slipping back into their sin of drunkenness, yet still other Christian alcoholics have been set free and have No desire to drink excessively at all. The latter don't refer to themselves by their former label of alcoholic because their deliverance has been 100% complete. Both types of Christian alcoholic are honouring God, both types are no longer committing the sin of drunkeness. One group is set free completely the other hasn't yet or may never be, but neither group are sinning. Same with someone with an eating issue that goes to OA or a gambler that goes to GA. some still have the disease or temptation, others will not have. The point isn't what label you call yourself, it is whether you are sinning wilfully against God by feeding your addiction/temptation or resisting it and denying it.

 

[Junia]

Bear in mind it is possible for a Christian to be accepted by the Lord and into heaven even if they have not been delivered of every issue, demon etc that plagues them

Demon oppression or having temptations isn't what we are judged on when we die. The intent of our heart towards God is. Are we wilfully sinning and refusing to repent or are we fighting against sin but struggling and sometimes falling but getting up and repenting again? There is a huge difference

 

[Douggg]

If someone has transitioned (physically and/or socially), and chooses to detransition, that's a matter for them and their health team.

The church can support that decision by that person, as I mentioned, in practical ways, in emotional ways, and so on; what it can't do is try to tell that person that they should detransition, or in any way try to coerce or control that process.

Also, you seem to be conflating sexuality and gender identity, and that's probably not helpful.

Politics aside, the church should speak out against homosexuality because God says it is wrong.

Politics noted, see who is initiating the ban - if it is coming primarily from the homosexual community - they have an agenda to make homosexuality an acceptable life style. Christians should never submit to that forced agenda coming from homosexuals.

 

[Paidiske]

Did you read the thread?

This is not about anyone's "agenda," except the agenda to prevent harmful, deceitful practices.

 

[james.mcc.]

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

I need help! For years now I have been running from God and struggling with my sexuality. I am finally ready to give in and let God take over. I’m tired of succumbing to the wiles of the Devil and the fleshes desires. I need some money to be able to go to the Conversion Counceling offered by my old church. Please can anyone help me get back on the right track to live a pure and God-honoring life.

 

[dms1972]

We are at election time and the Govt has announced intention to ban 'Converson Therapy' for those who wish to transition back to biological gender. (Forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, I am no expert.)

What I would like to know is if this therapy is Christian based. (I suspect not)

I would also like to know if such a ban might prohibit legitimate ministries in the church from assisting such a transition.

We in NewZealand have a Govt. trying to lead the world in 'progressive legislation'

Thanks for your help.

I thought "conversion therapy" refered to therapy for homosexual to hetrosexual change? Might be helpful to clarify what exactly is being refered to by the rather vague term "conversion therapy".

 

[dms1972]

"Conversion therapy is the pseudoscientific practice of trying to change an individual's sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to heterosexual using psychological, physical, or spiritual interventions." (From wikipedia). It would also generally cover trying to change someone's gender identity.

It is not necessarily Christian based, although as I noted, there are Christian groups who engage in various conversion therapies.

Do you think hetrosexuality was / is God's intention for men and women, and that homosexuality is due to the Fall?

 

[Paidiske]

Do you think hetrosexuality was / is God's intention for men and women, and that homosexuality is due to the Fall?

I think homosexuality is an outcome of our neurological development in utero. I would hesitate to proclaim all developmental issues as being due to the fall, as I don't think we always know why some things happen.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

What can we expect from critics and others if the Spirit leads a preaching or teaching of repentance from fornication and masturbation, so sexual sins, and someone there with the throng is homosexual or Lesbian?

 

[dms1972]

I think homosexuality is an outcome of our neurological development in utero. I would hesitate to proclaim all developmental issues as being due to the fall, as I don't think we always know why some things happen.

I am not aware of any studies that show that it is solely due to in utero factors, or a gene. Recnt research suggests sexual attraction cannot be pinned down to any single factor.

There is no ‘gay gene.’ There is no ‘straight gene.’ Sexuality is just complex, study confirms

 

[Carl Emerson]

What can we expect from critics and others if the Spirit leads a preaching or teaching of repentance from fornication and masturbation, so sexual sins, and someone there with the throng is homosexual or Lesbian?

You expose yourself to the possibility of legal action as the definition of 'conversion therapy' is very broad.