The 4 Beasts & the 4 Horsemen.

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Helmut-WK]

Daniel 7 and Revelation 13 refer to the mouth that speaks - great things.
This is the little horn.

Or someone similar to the little horn in OT (Antiochus Epiphanes).

Daniel 11 never mentions anything as to the actions of Antiochus IV.
It is linked to the vision that was shown in Daniel 10. The end of Daniel 10
refers to the truth and Daniel 11 reveals more as to this truth.

I can't follow you.

 

[Helmut-WK]

seal 1-----peace
seal 2 ----peace taken from the earth
seal 3 famine
and a voice is heard

The voice is the means to inform John about details of the famine. No need to read more into it.

Notice then in the 4th seal -----the voice.

That's KJV (or English grammar). In the Greek, there is no definite article. The voice is the voice of the fourth creature, this is a parallel to the other seals, where you read of the voice of the first to third beast, only that the wording is somewhat different.

There is no reason to identify the voice of the fourth beast in V.7 with the explaining voice in V.6.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Helmut-WK]

Daniel 10 is where he is shown a thing and a vision, then he mourns each time.

He mourns? I read he fades away. Until he got enough strength in 10:19. Then the angel tells him what he should know, and in 12:8 is the first word from Daniel after 10:19 - and this is no mourning.

Daniel 11:16
This verse refers to how Daniel was made in sorrow because of that vision.

You mean Dan 10:16.

by the vision...sorrow returned to him

The Hebrew word has several meanings, and "sorrow" does not fit as "pang" does, it was no mental, but physical stress that Daniel refers to.

2 Thess. 2 refers to what restrains.
there is first
a falling away, which occurs after the time of the abomination set up at the holy site

I can't find the word "abomination" in 2.Ts 2.

Daniel 11:36 seems to be when he will sit in the holy temple of God and exalt himself and speak against the real God.

Dan 11:36 is about the time after he got trouble with the Romans (Dan 11:30) and before he went north and dies (Dan 11:44), for more details look into the books of the Maccabees.

Is there any hint in the NT that all the details about Antiochus Epiphanes have a significance in the future? There is the abomination of desolation - the warning of Jesus made clear to the Christians that they should leave Jerusalem, and they did. Is there any passage in the Bible that says the abomination will have a third fulfillment in the last days?

The time of the church was hidden from the OT prophets, Eph 3:5. Daniel knew nothing about the time between the first and second coming of Christ.

A prophecy may have more than one fulfillment, but the parallels between the time Daniel prophesied about and the last days (there is also a parallel to the time of Noah) does not mean every detail in Daniel will be repeated in the last days of the church.

Daniel 12:11 mentions a time of 1290 days, and that links back to Daniel 11:31.

1290 days are 43 month - this time span is never referenced in the NT. So stop to mixing things.

 

[Helmut-WK]

The word "voice" was not used as to the other seals.

OK, lets sort the facts:
There is a voice in Rev 6:6, and there is a (!) voice in rev 6:7 which is identified as the voice of the fourth creature.
So the fourth creature spoke, as did the other creatures. The wording ids different, but what happened was the same.

heard the voice of the 4th beast say

Literally: "... I heard [a] voice of the fourth living [one] saying", which means that he heard a voice, which is identified as the voice of the fourth creature. In plain English, this is "I heard the voice of the fourth creature", but there is nothing which tells us to identify "a voice" in V.6 with "a voice" in V.7.

John introduces subjects to his readers.

Please note that in V.7 it is "a voice" in Greek, not "the voice".

Your interpretation rests on a trait that was introduced into the translation because of peculiarities of English grammar, and is not in the original text. Just imagine what will happen if an African reads into the Bible something that is suggested by the translation into his native language, and not in the original ...

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Joyous Song]

helmut: Again, you mix things up. It was not Marylin, it was me

Sorry for the mix up.


helmut: Not in every European languages. Replace "European" by "English", please.

It was the source I used to interpret that that gave European, so it goes back likely to our Saxon roots.


I disagree with this page on one point: While it was definitely not enough to read just one newspaper to get an unbiased view, you could arrive at a rather unbiased view by reading several different newspapers. And regarding the new SARS-COV-2 virus, the cause of covid-19, we have different media accessible. I got informed by the Korean KCDC (because I was in Korea at a crucial point), German television, John Hopkins (worldometer) and discussions in a Christian German social media, with discussions including people from Switzerland, Austria and even some other countries. But who only listen to Fox probably will be as "unbiased" as one who read only one newspaper.

All we now from our study in the seal that forth seal is a epidemic that causes a 1/4 of the population of the world or a specific nation or group of nations tied to Israel to die. True Covid-19 may just be a taste of what is to come instead of the real deal. Time will tell.

helmut:No virus comes literally "out of nowhere":

True yet HaShem, Praise be He can bring even natural occurrences to a different conclusion.


helmut:: There are plenty of viruses where vaccine only works for some time. As to covid-19, it is still unclear how long immunity will last. Some persons may have tested as "false positives" ...

This includes immunity from vaccines. This is why the makers of vaccines are loading these with anti-bodies hoping to get ahead of the attrition.

helmut: Again, this is not the4 first virus with such a feature.

But is is the first carrying all these nasty elements.

helmut:: At least there are viruses we know of that are more infectious. AFAIK know Ebola is one of them.

Ebola is to a point but Covid-19 really can be controlled only one way truly effectively over a long time: wearing masks, social distancing and avoiding crowds. All three acts are in essence "love your neighbor as yourself". So is it coincidence, perhaps but we should still learn from this one. If its not something worse will be coming.

helmut: On the other hand: Given the environmental crisis with animals losing their natural habitat, we will face more close contacts with animals that may allow a new virus to enter humans. The probability of new pandemics is rising.

Agreed, this could be this one came from. Indeed we strongly believe none of the judgments coming need only to come from G-d. We humans have created so much trouble for ourselves, Climate Change, and cancer causing agents everywhere are just two such man made future disasters.

helmut: And even known plagues can become serious dangers: Multi-resistant bacteria may cause a pandemic. Such bacteria are "breeded" by too much antibiotics (in hospitals, on animal farms, or ion pharmaceutic factories in India or otherwise), if you allow some loose expression. The odds are high that you will encounter more pandemics in your lifetime. Covid-19 is a precursor of more to come ...


I be posting two visionaries vision which actually predicted this thousands a years ago.

 

[Joyous Song]

Hi Joyous Song,

What a great name. Now thanks for popping in and look forward to discussing with you some time.

And I with you, thank you for being here as well.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[Timtofly]

Only the four beasts were present in that scene. John didn't say that he heard a voice from afar.
He didn't say "the voice", so it can only be that he heard the 4th beast speaking in the time of the
third seal.

in the midst of the four beasts say

not heard a voice from heaven or among crowds
John told us all things that he saw.

not there came a voice

Perhaps John was one of the voices?

 

[Helmut-WK]

Only the four beasts were present in that scene. John didn't say that he heard a voice from afar.

I again looked into Greek and found that in V.6 John didn't say he heard a voice, but said that he heard something like a voice. And he locates it in the midst of the four creatures. In that midst is the throne of God.

John told us all things that he saw.

He didn't tell that he could see from whom or what the sound like a voice originated.

We should not speculate too much, but my impression is that he heard what people affected by famine said (sellers or buyers of the goods mentioned).

 

[Helmut-WK]

None of this great tribulation and from Daniel 11:21 forward has to do with the life of Antiochus IV
as a ruler.

Dan 11:22-30 surely does.

PS: The 1335 days are 44.5 months, or 42 months + one month + another 1½ months.

EDIT: Typo