LDS Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

[mmksparbud]

I believe is the real Jesus Christ of the Bible:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | John 14:24)

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

(New Testament | John 17:20 - 26)

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(New Testament | John 13:34 - 35)

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 13:13)

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

(New Testament | James 1:22)

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

None of this has anything to do with what I said.

 

[mmksparbud]

How did God create Himself out of nothing and/or when did nothing exist including God because God is not nothing?

I say there never was a time when nothing existed because God has always existed.

God was not ever created. He always was. You guys don't get it. It is not something the human mind can comprehend so man makes up stories that he can more easily relate to---like God was a human man before He became God. But that only leads to who created the first one---There is no first one, there is only God, from always. You keep saying the same stupid thing. God created from nothing, not that God came from nothing. You just keep going in circles--GOD CREATED everything from nothing. He always was and is not from any other man---God the Father has no Father, and He has no grand children either and only one Son.

 

[He is the way]

God was not ever created. He always was. You guys don't get it. It is not something the human mind can comprehend so man makes up stories that he can more easily relate to---like God was a human man before He became God. But that only leads to who created the first one---There is no first one, there is only God, from always. You keep saying the same stupid thing. God created from nothing, not that God came from nothing. You just keep going in circles--GOD CREATED everything from nothing. He always was and is not from any other man---God the Father has no Father, and He has no grand children either and only one Son.

You said: "GOD CREATED everything from nothing." That is not possible unless God created Himself, because God is something.

 

[He is the way]

None of this has anything to do with what I said.

Then you agree with all of these scriptures?

 

[mmksparbud]

You said: "GOD CREATED everything from nothing." That is not possible unless God created Himself, because God is something.

We've gone through this countless times. The creator is never counted as part of His creation. An artist is noit considered a part of the paint, nor clay a part of the potter. God spoke and it was so, He commanded and it stood fast. Look up sound waves, they are discovering more and more about the power of sound waves. Our God needed no pre-existing matter. The power of His voice creates. Your god needs preexisting matter for he has no power to create with His voice.

 

[mmksparbud]

Then you agree with all of these scriptures?

They have nothing to do with the subject, but why would anyone disagree with those scriptures? It is not the topic and you are trying to sidetrack. Actually, none of this is on topic. Topic is the Book of Abraham.

 

[He is the way]

We've gone through this countless times. The creator is never counted as part of His creation. An artist is noit considered a part of the paint, nor clay a part of the potter. God spoke and it was so, He commanded and it stood fast. Look up sound waves, they are discovering more and more about the power of sound waves. Our God needed no pre-existing matter. The power of His voice creates. Your god needs preexisting matter for he has no power to create with His voice.

There is NO voice without matter. There is no God without matter. There is NO existence without matter. Matter had to come first for there to even be an existence. God exists because there is matter.

 

[He is the way]

They have nothing to do with the subject, but why would anyone disagree with those scriptures? It is not the topic and you are trying to sidetrack. Actually, none of this is on topic. Topic is the Book of Abraham.

You were the one that said I did not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. I believe in all of those scriptures, you don't believe that Jesus is one with the Father in glory and perfection just as we can be one with Them. The Bible does NOT say they are one in substance.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is NO voice without matter. There is no God without matter. There is NO existence without matter. Matter had to come first for there to even be an existence. God exists because there is matter.

LOL!! This is the God of the universe! Not your puny, ineffectual no power to do anything god! Our God created physics! And you have no idea what you are talking about, you are going by what someone said. The bible says His voice created---and that is what happened--you do not know. You are going by what scientists used to say. They kniow better now, you do not even keep up with what the godless scientists have to say! You just do not get His power----matter exists because God exists!! You guys are soooo backwards thinking.

 

[mmksparbud]

You were the one that said I did not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. I believe in all of those scriptures, you don't believe that Jesus is one with the Father in glory and perfection just as we can be one with Them. The Bible does NOT say they are one in substance.

We've already gone through all the ways your Christ is not the Christ of the bible. Those scriptures are all you know. They are universal to all Christians and have nothing to do with the true believes you have of your Christ. This is the milk---your veggie burger is a whole different thing. God the Father and God the Son were One before Jesus became human. As usual, you have everything backwards, you have a human god fathering a spirit child that becomes human to learn how to become a God---totally not the God or Son of the bible, only the Father and Son of JS.

 

[He is the way]

LOL!! This is the God of the universe! Not your puny, ineffectual no power to do anything god! Our God created physics! And you have no idea what you are talking about, you are going by what someone said. The bible says His voice created---and that is what happened--you do not know. You are going by what scientists used to say. They kniow better now, you do not even keep up with what the godless scientists have to say! You just do not get His power----matter exists because God exists!! You guys are soooo backwards thinking.

God exists because matter exists. God has always existed and matter has always existed. God formed the earth:

(Old Testament | Psalms 90:2)

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. God did not come out of nothing.

 

[Leaf473]

Moses is credited with writing the first five books of the Old testament. We rely heavily on those first five books. It was Moses who gave to us the ten commandments from God. It was Moses who freed God's people out of captivity through God's power. Jesus spoke of Moses and of what he said. Those who did not follow Moses did not fare so well. Moses was not perfect, but he was a prophet of God. Those who follow God's prophets are on the right track.

what I'm hearing is that the test is multiple Witnesses.
not necessarily all human Witnesses, for example miracles count as a kind of witness, it sounds like.

the first miracle that I can find that Moses does in front of other people is throwing down his walking stick and turning it into a snake.
he does this in front of pharaoh and all of his officials.

was Joseph able to perform a miracle like this on demand?
in front of the leader of a significant Nation, with lots of high-ranking officials watching?

next Moses turns the entire Nile River into blood.
again, he does this on demand.
did Joseph do a miracle like this?
I'm pretty sure he didn't, it would be common knowledge if he did.

I'm all in favor of following prophets of God!

but it's easy to claim to be a prophet of God, so it's good to be able to test people who make the claim, imo.

 

[Leaf473]

In the temple we do ordinances for our dead ancestors so they can progress towards the Celestial kingdom. Jesus also went to the spirit prison. As far as I know we do not teach that a person must have a temple recommend in order to have eternal life.

in LDS teaching, how is eternal life obtained?

 

[Leaf473]

I would not say that that website is of the Devil, but it seems to me that they do not have the fullness of the gospel. I did searches for commandments, and priesthood and found nothing. That being said I do like the work they are doing.

okay... you wouldn't say that that website is of the Devil,
would you say that it is of God?

 

[He is the way]

We've already gone through all the ways your Christ is not the Christ of the bible. Those scriptures are all you know. They are universal to all Christians and have nothing to do with the true believes you have of your Christ. This is the milk---your veggie burger is a whole different thing. God the Father and God the Son were One before Jesus became human. As usual, you have everything backwards, you have a human god fathering a spirit child that becomes human to learn how to become a God---totally not the God or Son of the bible, only the Father and Son of JS.

Don't you believe that Jesus was Fathered by God the Father. Don't you believe that the Father sent Him? Don't you believe that He did the will of the Father and NOT His own will:

(New Testament | John 5:28 - 31)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

 

[He is the way]

what I'm hearing is that the test is multiple Witnesses.
not necessarily all human Witnesses, for example miracles count as a kind of witness, it sounds like.

the first miracle that I can find that Moses does in front of other people is throwing down his walking stick and turning it into a snake.
he does this in front of pharaoh and all of his officials.

was Joseph able to perform a miracle like this on demand?
in front of the leader of a significant Nation, with lots of high-ranking officials watching?

next Moses turns the entire Nile River into blood.
again, he does this on demand.
did Joseph do a miracle like this?
I'm pretty sure he didn't, it would be common knowledge if he did.

I'm all in favor of following prophets of God!

but it's easy to claim to be a prophet of God, so it's good to be able to test people who make the claim, imo.

Through revelation given to Joseph Smith we got the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. With God's help Joseph was able to heal the sick and prophesy of future events. People had visions and spoke in tongues. Through the authority of the priesthood president Snow brought his niece back from the dead. Many miracles have been given to the saints. That being said it is wrong to seek after a sign:

(New Testament | Matthew 16:4)

4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Do you remember the sign of the prophet Jonas?

 

[He is the way]

in LDS teaching, how is eternal life obtained?

Eternal life is obtained by keeping the commandments:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 

[He is the way]

okay... you wouldn't say that that website is of the Devil,
would you say that it is of God?

(New Testament | Mark 9:38 - 41)

38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

 

[mmksparbud]

Don't you believe that Jesus was Fathered by God the Father. Don't you believe that the Father sent Him? Don't you believe that He did the will of the Father and NOT His own will:

(New Testament | John 5:28 - 31)

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

They were both one from everlasting. No, the Father did not create the son as some spiritual child with one of His wives, that had to become human in order to learn to be a god. None of that stuff is in the bible. So no---it is not the same Jesus no matter how much you want it to be. Just because we share a few similarities does not make those differences go away. You want only to focus on the similar to make you look more Christian---you are not. Your Jesus just plain is not ours and does not exist. Ours did create from nothing, ours was never created, ours was one substance with His Father until He became human. Even the reason He became human is not the same. Ours came to save us unto Himself. Ours came as our Creator and Savior, not in order to learn how to become god. Your version cheapens what the Creator did. He left a realm where He was One with the Father, a magnificent position, the creator of all things, the Creator of all the angels, worshipped and adored---He humbled Himself and became much lower than the angels He created in order for us to spend eternity with Him and His Father. He and the Father will have us in His presence for eternity---all those He saves, not just a few so called "exalted" ones who have done some things that was never asked to be done!!

 

[He is the way]

They were both one from everlasting. No, the Father did not create the son as some spiritual child with one of His wives, that had to become human in order to learn to be a god. None of that stuff is in the bible. So no---it is not the same Jesus no matter how much you want it to be. Just because we share a few similarities does not make those differences go away. You want only to focus on the similar to make you look more Christian---you are not. Your Jesus just plain is not ours and does not exist. Ours did create from nothing, ours was never created, ours was one substance with His Father until He became human. Even the reason He became human is not the same. Ours came to save us unto Himself. Ours came as our Creator and Savior, not in order to learn how to become god. Your version cheapens what the Creator did. He left a realm where He was One with the Father, a magnificent position, the creator of all things, the Creator of all the angels, worshipped and adored---He humbled Himself and became much lower than the angels He created in order for us to spend eternity with Him and His Father. He and the Father will have us in His presence for eternity---all those He saves, not just a few so called "exalted" ones who have done some things that was never asked to be done!!

So you say Jesus is of one SUBSTANCE with the Father, and you believe that SUBSTANCE has always existed. That means that SUBSTANCE (matter) has always existed.

sub·stance
/ˈsəbstəns/
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noun

1. 1.
   a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
   "a steel tube coated with a waxy substance"
   
   Similar:
   material
   
   matter
   
   stuff
   
2. 2.
   the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.
   "proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"