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LDS Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

He is the way

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Caint nobody EARN salvation or eternal life
C'mon, man!
Eternal life is NOT free:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Where does the Bible say that salvation or eternal life is free?
 
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Leaf473

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Joseph Smith was not perfect and neither were the other prophets except for Jesus Christ. That being said, when Joseph Smith spoke in the name of God, it was scripture:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 68:4)

4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.
if Joseph did some stuff good and some stuff evil, how do we apply the test you spoke of to him? or anyone?

also is there a place online where I can read the entire chapter 68 of the doctrine and covenants?
 
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Leaf473

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Eternal life is NOT free:

(New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 28)

25 ¶ And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Where does the Bible say that salvation or eternal life is free?
well, this came to mind
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I think that God meets us where we are.
the Rich Young ruler came to Jesus and asked him what he (the ruler) had to do.

as far as I can tell, no one in the gospels ever just asks Jesus for eternal life.
interesting to speculate what it would have happened if they had!
 
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He is the way

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if Joseph did some stuff good and some stuff evil, how do we apply the test you spoke of to him? or anyone?

also is there a place online where I can read the entire chapter 68 of the doctrine and covenants?
Moses wrote most of the Old Testament and is considered a prophet of God. That being said we know that Moses was not perfect. However those who did not heed his words or the words of God given to Moses, did not fare well. It is indeed important to follow the prophet even if he is not perfect.
 
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He is the way

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well, this came to mind
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I think that God meets us where we are.
the Rich Young ruler came to Jesus and asked him what he (the ruler) had to do.

as far as I can tell, no one in the gospels ever just asks Jesus for eternal life.
interesting to speculate what it would have happened if they had!
True and although Nicodemus did not ask for eternal life Jesus make it clear what he had to do to to get to God's kingdom:

(New Testament | John 3:2 - 7)

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Of course this was about baptism for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.
 
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mmksparbud

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Moses wrote most of the Old Testament and is considered a prophet of God. That being said we know that Moses was not perfect. However those who did not heed his words or the words of God given to Moses, did not fare well. It is indeed important to follow the prophet even if he is not perfect.

And it is also very important that a prophet of God be proven to be a prophet of God---A true prophet of God points always to Jesus and to the sure word of God---JS points to himself as the more perfect word of God, that alone makes him a false prophet. A false prophet is just a more perfect liar.
 
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And it is also very important that a prophet of God be proven to be a prophet of God---A true prophet of God points always to Jesus and to the sure word of God---JS points to himself as the more perfect word of God, that alone makes him a false prophet. A false prophet is just a more perfect liar.
No, you are wrong, Joseph Smith points to Jesus Christ as does the Book of Mormon:

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 17)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
 
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mmksparbud

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No, you are wrong, Joseph Smith points to Jesus Christ as does the Book of Mormon:

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 17)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.


Oh, please! Do I have to go digging up all those quotes from a very arrogant young man you says his works are more accurate than the bible, and that he did more than Jesus Himself had done? You know I will if you insist. But you know them as well As I do. JS always pointed to himself.
 
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He is the way

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Oh, please! Do I have to go digging up all those quotes from a very arrogant young man you says his works are more accurate than the bible, and that he did more than Jesus Himself had done? You know I will if you insist. But you know them as well As I do. JS always pointed to himself.
The Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, but it was revealed to us by God as another testament of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, but he was not perfect.
 
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mmksparbud

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The Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, but it was revealed to us by God as another testament of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, but he was not perfect.


The bible is the word of God. The word of God is what is used to determine if what a man says is actually from God. So right there, the BOM is not of God.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 
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Leaf473

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Moses wrote most of the Old Testament and is considered a prophet of God. That being said we know that Moses was not perfect. However those who did not heed his words or the words of God given to Moses, did not fare well. It is indeed important to follow the prophet even if he is not perfect.
I believe that Moses is credited with writing at most 5 of the 39 books of the Old testament

I believe you spoke of a test, "a way to know", in post 170
LDS - Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

Moroni 7
"16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him."

I agree that people are not perfect.
how then do we apply the test to them?
do we say that Moses was "right on" when he parted the red sea, but made a mistake when he struck the rock?

do we evaluate each action separately?
also, does the test apply just to people or also to what they write?
 
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Leaf473

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True and although Nicodemus did not ask for eternal life Jesus make it clear what he had to do to to get to God's kingdom:

(New Testament | John 3:2 - 7)

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Of course this was about baptism for the remission of sins and receiving the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.
I wouldn't disagree with that, though I think there's at least one passage where people receive the holy Spirit without being touched.

do LDS teach that things such as a temple recommend our required for eternal life?
 
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Leaf473

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No, you are wrong, Joseph Smith points to Jesus Christ as does the Book of Mormon:

(Book of Mormon | Moroni 7:12 - 17)

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.
13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.
14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.
15 For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night.
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.
here is a website that points to Christ and emphasizes good things like hope, salvation, righteousness, love, and charity.

http://christconsciousnessministries.org/

is it from God?
many orthodox Christians would say it is not.
what would LDS people say?
 
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He is the way

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The bible is the word of God. The word of God is what is used to determine if what a man says is actually from God. So right there, the BOM is not of God.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
So why do you believe in another gospel and another Christ? Do you teach people to LOVE Jesus Christ and keep His commandments?
 
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He is the way

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I believe that Moses is credited with writing at most 5 of the 39 books of the Old testament

I believe you spoke of a test, "a way to know", in post 170
LDS - Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham is False

Moroni 7
"16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.
17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him."

I agree that people are not perfect.
how then do we apply the test to them?
do we say that Moses was "right on" when he parted the red sea, but made a mistake when he struck the rock?

do we evaluate each action separately?
also, does the test apply just to people or also to what they write?
Moses is credited with writing the first five books of the Old testament. We rely heavily on those first five books. It was Moses who gave to us the ten commandments from God. It was Moses who freed God's people out of captivity through God's power. Jesus spoke of Moses and of what he said. Those who did not follow Moses did not fare so well. Moses was not perfect, but he was a prophet of God. Those who follow God's prophets are on the right track.
 
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He is the way

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I wouldn't disagree with that, though I think there's at least one passage where people receive the holy Spirit without being touched.

do LDS teach that things such as a temple recommend our required for eternal life?
In the temple we do ordinances for our dead ancestors so they can progress towards the Celestial kingdom. Jesus also went to the spirit prison. As far as I know we do not teach that a person must have a temple recommend in order to have eternal life.
 
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He is the way

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here is a website that points to Christ and emphasizes good things like hope, salvation, righteousness, love, and charity.

http://christconsciousnessministries.org/

is it from God?
many orthodox Christians would say it is not.
what would LDS people say?
I would not say that that website is of the Devil, but it seems to me that they do not have the fullness of the gospel. I did searches for commandments, and priesthood and found nothing. That being said I do like the work they are doing.
 
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mmksparbud

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So why do you believe in another gospel and another Christ? Do you teach people to LOVE Jesus Christ and keep His commandments?


And what makes you think I believe in another gospel than what Jesus and the disciples taught? It is the LDS who believe "a different gospel" and years ago, that was the exact wording they used. They changed it to sound more mainline. Your Christ is not the Christ of the bible, that has ben shown over and over. He is very different from the one the bible describes. You love that Christ---the one that was created by a human man that became God. The one that can not create from nothing, the one that did not create Satan but is his brother, the one that was not God until he came here to learn how to be perfect. See=---you've been shown that the real Christ created all things, from nothing, and therefore created Lucifer and is His creator, not his brother. It is the same Jesus that created Adam and Eve and who, when He says be fruitful and multiply---they are able to do so without first having to sin. The Jesus of the bible was God with the Father and of the same substance until He became human in order to save that creation from their sin. Get back to the real Christ, the one of the bible, not the one of the imagination of a man---that Christ is not able to do much, ours is ABLE---PERIOD. We love that Christ and keep His commandments because we love Him, not in order to be partially saved and He saves all who choose Him, completely, all will be in presence of the Father---ALL the saved, not an elect few who adhere to commands He never gave.
 
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He is the way

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And what makes you think I believe in another gospel than what Jesus and the disciples taught? It is the LDS who believe "a different gospel" and years ago, that was the exact wording they used. They changed it to sound more mainline. Your Christ is not the Christ of the bible, that has ben shown over and over. He is very different from the one the bible describes. You love that Christ---the one that was created by a human man that became God. The one that can not create from nothing, the one that did not create Satan but is his brother, the one that was not God until he came here to learn how to be perfect. See=---you've been shown that the real Christ created all things, from nothing, and therefore created Lucifer and is His creator, not his brother. It is the same Jesus that created Adam and Eve and who, when He says be fruitful and multiply---they are able to do so without first having to sin. The Jesus of the bible was God with the Father and of the same substance until He became human in order to save that creation from their sin. Get back to the real Christ, the one of the bible, not the one of the imagination of a man---that Christ is not able to do much, ours is ABLE---PERIOD. We love that Christ and keep His commandments because we love Him, not in order to be partially saved and He saves all who choose Him, completely, all will be in presence of the Father---ALL the saved, not an elect few who adhere to commands He never gave.
I believe is the real Jesus Christ of the Bible:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

(New Testament | John 14:24)

24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

(New Testament | John 17:20 - 26)

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:9)

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

(New Testament | John 13:34 - 35)

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 13:13)

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

(New Testament | James 1:22)

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
 
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And what makes you think I believe in another gospel than what Jesus and the disciples taught? It is the LDS who believe "a different gospel" and years ago, that was the exact wording they used. They changed it to sound more mainline. Your Christ is not the Christ of the bible, that has ben shown over and over. He is very different from the one the bible describes. You love that Christ---the one that was created by a human man that became God. The one that can not create from nothing, the one that did not create Satan but is his brother, the one that was not God until he came here to learn how to be perfect. See=---you've been shown that the real Christ created all things, from nothing, and therefore created Lucifer and is His creator, not his brother. It is the same Jesus that created Adam and Eve and who, when He says be fruitful and multiply---they are able to do so without first having to sin. The Jesus of the bible was God with the Father and of the same substance until He became human in order to save that creation from their sin. Get back to the real Christ, the one of the bible, not the one of the imagination of a man---that Christ is not able to do much, ours is ABLE---PERIOD. We love that Christ and keep His commandments because we love Him, not in order to be partially saved and He saves all who choose Him, completely, all will be in presence of the Father---ALL the saved, not an elect few who adhere to commands He never gave.
How did God create Himself out of nothing and/or when did nothing exist including God because God is not nothing?

I say there never was a time when nothing existed because God has always existed.
 
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