SOLA SCRIPTURA THE FINAL AUTHORITY AND SOLE RULE OF FAITH

LoveGodsWord

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Christ’s disciples, who formed the early church, received and preached the gospel-God’s Word-before a word of the New Testament was written. That church continued to do so in the East and west. The gospel isn’t based on Scripture but rather the other way around, and that gospel has been held and preserved and protected since day one. Readers, who rely on Scripture alone OTOH, often disagree on significant truths of the faith. Whose interpretation, then, should we trust?
Nearly everything from the new testament scriptures came from the old testament scriptures. The gospel is the Word of God and is based on the scriptures which are the Word of God. That is why according to the scriptures the Word of God is our only standard of what truth is *John 17:17 revealed to those who turn away from men and pratyerfully seek God for it *John 14:26; John 16:13. Any disagreements on scripture can only be proven to be true or not true by the Word of God which is the standard of what truth is.

Hope this helps.
 
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Albion

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Christ’s disciples, who formed the early church, received and preached the gospel-God’s Word-before a word of the New Testament was written. That church continued to do so in the East and west. The gospel isn’t based on Scripture but rather the other way around, and that gospel has been held and preserved and protected since day one. Readers, who rely on Scripture alone OTOH, often disagree on significant truths of the faith. Whose interpretation, then, should we trust?

Sola Scriptura is not about which interpretation of God's word is true and which is false.
 
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fhansen

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Sola Scriptura is not about which interpretation of God's word is true and which is false.
Sure, and that’s the point. SS cannot guarantee or provides no mechanism for discerning which interpretation is correct, so it remains a sort of stifled doctrine, with more doctrine required in order to address the matter of actually knowing what Scripture means to say.
 
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fhansen

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Nearly everything from the new testament scriptures came from the old testament scriptures. The gospel is the Word of God and is based on the scriptures which are the Word of God. That is why according to the scriptures the Word of God is our only standard of what truth is *John 17:17 revealed to those who turn away from men and pratyerfully seek God for it *John 14:26; John 16:13. Any disagreements on scripture can only be proven to be true or not true by the Word of God which is the standard of what truth is.

Hope this helps.
It’s interesting that you say that. I wonder why anymore revelation was required, or why the Bereans or the Ethiopian Eunuch required any input from the church, from Christ’s disciples, in order to discern the meaning of Scripture.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It’s interesting that you say that. I wonder why anymore revelation was required, or why the Bereans or the Ethiopian Eunuch required any input from the church, from Christ’s disciples, in order to discern the meaning of Scripture.
According to the scriptures, God's true Church are all those who have the Word of God and believe and follow it. The Bareans studied the scriptures to see if these things were true or not. This only supports the scriptures already provided in the OP and throughout this thread by others supporting Sola scriptura.
 
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Albion

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Sure, and that’s the point. SS cannot guarantee or provides no mechanism for discerning which interpretation is correct, so it remains a sort of stifled doctrine, with more doctrine required in order to address the matter of actually knowing what Scripture means to say.

No, the term simply refers to something else.

Sola Scriptura does not refer to any particular interpretation of Scripture, or to the process of interpreting, nor does it imply that it doesn't matter which interpretation is accepted.
 
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rturner76

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Even after Jesus (a Jew, not a Catholic) returned, He had to prove it was He to the disciples. Since you can't produce evidence that Catholics wrote the Bible (or are even mentioned in Scripture) your statement is false.

It's funny how so many educated Protestants don't know the history of the Bible. People think all the Apostles god to whether and listened to God tell them what to write.

In the first days of Christianity, About 50 years after Christ was on the cross, Matthew wrote his gospel. Over the following 50 years, others wrote their versions of the gospel. At the same time, Apostles were planting churches all over the known world. They corresponded with the churches they started, giving instruction and encouragement.

Most of the Epistles were responses to letters received by those individual churches who wrote to the Apostles with concern about things that were happening in their churches. The letters were kept and circulated around all the churches along with the gospels and other writings by students of the Apostles like Barnabus and Plutarch (they have also written letters of instructions. However certain books were read in all of the churches. This collection of books is what became the New Testament.

At this time there were Bishops in Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Ethiopia, Syria, and many others that are still in operation today in an unbroken succession of Bishops. This is called Apostolic succession. Every Bishop can trace back to 50-100 AD every Bishop there ever was down to the Apostles themselves
 
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rturner76

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Here is the history of how The universal (that's what Catholic means) Church

By the early 3rd century Origen of Alexandria may have been using the same 27 books as in the modern New Testament, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Revelation[8] (see also Antilegomena). Likewise by 200 the Muratorian fragment shows that there existed a set of Christian writings somewhat similar to what is now the New Testament, which included four gospels and argued against objections to them.[9] Thus, while there was plenty of discussion in the Early Church over the New Testament canon, the "major" writings were accepted by almost all Christian authorities by the middle of the second century.[10]

The next two hundred years followed a similar process of continual discussion throughout the entire Church, and localized refinements of acceptance. This process was not yet complete at the time of the First Council of Nicaea in 325, though substantial progress had been made by then. Though a list was clearly necessary to fulfill Constantine's commission in 331 of fifty copies of the Bible for the Church at Constantinople, no concrete evidence exists to indicate that it was considered to be a formal canon. In the absence of a canonical list, the resolution of questions would normally have been directed through the see of Constantinople, in consultation with Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea (who was given the commission), and perhaps other bishops who were available locally.

In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books that would formally become the New Testament canon,[11] and he used the word "canonized" (kanonizomena) in regard to them.[12] The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) was the Council of Rome, held by Pope Damasus I (382). A second council was held at the Synod of Hippo (393) reaffirming the previous council list. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Council of Carthage (397) and the Council of Carthage (419).[13] These councils took place under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed.[14] Pope Damasus I's Council of Rome in 382, if the Decretum Gelasianum is correctly associated with it, issued a biblical canon identical to that mentioned above,[11] or if not the list is at least a 6th-century compilation[15] claiming a 4th-century imprimatur.[16] Likewise, Damasus's commissioning of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, c. 383, was instrumental in the fixation of the canon in the West.[17] In 405, Pope Innocent I sent a list of the sacred books to a Gallic bishop, Exsuperius of Toulouse. When these bishops and councils spoke on the matter, however, they were not defining something new, but instead "were ratifying what had already become the mind of the church."[18] Thus, from the 5th century onward, the Western Church was unanimous concerning the New Testament canon.[19]
Source:
Wikipedia The same information is available elsewhere but they have the most concise essay.
See, this was not a book that fell out of the sky from heaven. These books were decided on by The Church, not the Apostles or Christ.
 
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rturner76

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According to the scriptures, God's true Church are all those who have the Word of God and believe and follow it. The Bareans studied the scriptures to see if these things were true or not. This only supports the scriptures already provided in the OP and throughout this thread by others supporting Sola scriptura

Did you know they "The Word" of God is actually Jesus Christ? The "scriptures" they talk about in the Bible is the Talmud, not the New Testament. It hadn't been made yet. These were Jews. Actually, Peter wanted to make it a requirement that Christians become Jews first. He saw it as a sect of Judaism, not a separate religion.

The Church always taught that the Bible was divinely inspired. Here's the rub see. The Catholic Church wants people to read the Bible with guidance from a man of God who has studied the Bible and is an expert on it's interpretation. Protestants read the Bible as laymen and each one has their own different interpretation. Just look at how many denominations and nondenominational there are. There is no continuity with Protestants. How can all the 1000's of different "Sola Scriptura" churches have different doctrines if they are 100% from the Bible with the correct interpretation?

There are many sacred traditions that came 100-200 years before the NT was even put together.

Faith alone is not enough. You must live that faith and repent when you backslide. The Bible does not contradict itself, right?

James 2:17
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James 2:24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Titus 1:16 - They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

Galatians 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Colossians 3:23-24 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ

And so on........So our faith saves us but we keep the faith with our works or else our faith is hollow, no substance.









 
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The Church always taught that the Bible was divinely inspired. Here's the rub see. The Catholic Church wants people to read the Bible with guidance from a man of God who has studied the Bible and is an expert on it's interpretation. Protestants read the Bible as laymen and each one has their own different interpretation. Just look at how many denominations and nondenominational there are. There is no continuity with Protestants. How can all the 1000's of different "Sola Scriptura" churches have different doctrines if they are 100% from the Bible with the correct interpretation?

But is the Catholic church really any more united than the Protestant churches? Just anecdotally, I don't know one Roman Catholic who believes in transubstantiation, and I would say most do not believe that doing good works, while good in themselves and which can make you feel closer to God, do not in themselves make you right with God, it's that sincerely saying sorry and forgiveness does. So I just wonder what this claim to unity actually means.

We cannot get away from the need to personally interpret the things we read or are being told if they are to make sense to us and if we are to believe them whether that is Scripture alone or Scriputure + Tradition + the Magisterium. No two Protestants think exactly alike and no two Catholics do either. The unity is that we all belong to the family of God.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Here is the history of how The universal (that's what Catholic means) Church

By the early 3rd century Origen of Alexandria may have been using the same 27 books as in the modern New Testament, though there were still disputes over the canonicity of Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Revelation[8] (see also Antilegomena). Likewise by 200 the Muratorian fragment shows that there existed a set of Christian writings somewhat similar to what is now the New Testament, which included four gospels and argued against objections to them.[9] Thus, while there was plenty of discussion in the Early Church over the New Testament canon, the "major" writings were accepted by almost all Christian authorities by the middle of the second century.[10]

The next two hundred years followed a similar process of continual discussion throughout the entire Church, and localized refinements of acceptance. This process was not yet complete at the time of the First Council of Nicaea in 325, though substantial progress had been made by then. Though a list was clearly necessary to fulfill Constantine's commission in 331 of fifty copies of the Bible for the Church at Constantinople, no concrete evidence exists to indicate that it was considered to be a formal canon. In the absence of a canonical list, the resolution of questions would normally have been directed through the see of Constantinople, in consultation with Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea (who was given the commission), and perhaps other bishops who were available locally.

In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books that would formally become the New Testament canon,[11] and he used the word "canonized" (kanonizomena) in regard to them.[12] The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) was the Council of Rome, held by Pope Damasus I (382). A second council was held at the Synod of Hippo (393) reaffirming the previous council list. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Council of Carthage (397) and the Council of Carthage (419).[13] These councils took place under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed.[14] Pope Damasus I's Council of Rome in 382, if the Decretum Gelasianum is correctly associated with it, issued a biblical canon identical to that mentioned above,[11] or if not the list is at least a 6th-century compilation[15] claiming a 4th-century imprimatur.[16] Likewise, Damasus's commissioning of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, c. 383, was instrumental in the fixation of the canon in the West.[17] In 405, Pope Innocent I sent a list of the sacred books to a Gallic bishop, Exsuperius of Toulouse. When these bishops and councils spoke on the matter, however, they were not defining something new, but instead "were ratifying what had already become the mind of the church."[18] Thus, from the 5th century onward, the Western Church was unanimous concerning the New Testament canon.[19]

See, this was not a book that fell out of the sky from heaven. These books were decided on by The Church, not the Apostles or Christ.

Hi rturner, please post your source if the above is not your work (Wikipedia??) No one says that the bible is a book that fell out of the sky from heaven. The books were indeed decided on by the Church but you should add as directed by God. All the books that make up the bible however are all indeed scripture given to men by God and that is the reason they were collectively added to the bible. My point here is that these books and scriptures existed long before the Catholic church tried to do something with them in 367 AD and have their origin from the old testament prophets, JESUS and the Apostles which make up the scriptures and the written Word of God as we have them today. So your point here is what?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Did you know they "The Word" of God is actually Jesus Christ? The "scriptures" they talk about in the Bible is the Talmud, not the New Testament. It hadn't been made yet. These were Jews. Actually, Peter wanted to make it a requirement that Christians become Jews first. He saw it as a sect of Judaism, not a separate religion.

The Church always taught that the Bible was divinely inspired. Here's the rub see. The Catholic Church wants people to read the Bible with guidance from a man of God who has studied the Bible and is an expert on it's interpretation. Protestants read the Bible as laymen and each one has their own different interpretation. Just look at how many denominations and nondenominational there are. There is no continuity with Protestants. How can all the 1000's of different "Sola Scriptura" churches have different doctrines if they are 100% from the Bible with the correct interpretation?

There are many sacred traditions that came 100-200 years before the NT was even put together.

Faith alone is not enough. You must live that faith and repent when you backslide. The Bible does not contradict itself, right?

James 2:17
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:26 - For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James 2:24 - Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Matthew 5:16 - Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Hebrews 11:6 - But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Titus 1:16 - They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

Galatians 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Colossians 3:23-24 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ

And so on........So our faith saves us but we keep the faith with our works or else our faith is hollow, no substance.

The only record we have today of JESUS is the written Word of God. He is revealed through the scriptures by and through the Holy Spirit which is God's promise to those who believe and follow God's Word in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:11; 1 John 2:27; John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17 which are conditional promises on continuing to believe and follow Gods Word *John 8:31-36. The scriptures you have provided here only support what is being shared with you in the OP. According to the scriptures our works do not save us. They are the fruit of our faith and demonstrate that we have faith in God's Word. Once again faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God not of works lest anyman should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9
 
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Albion

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It's funny how so many educated Protestants don't know the history of the Bible. People think all the Apostles god to whether and listened to God tell them what to write.
That seems to have become the next favorite line of the opponents of Sola Scriptura here on these forums. But it absolutely avoids the issue.

Yes, we know that the Bible wasn't complete on Pentecost Sunday. However, these writings, once completed and accepted by the Church as inspired, were considered by the Church to be...

--Complete

--Divinely Inspired, and

--Official.


Pardon the redundancy, but is that not so?
..........................................................................
Your own denomination, no less than the ones the rest of us belong to, affirms that the Bible is God's own word given to Mankind for the same purpose as all the Sola Scriptura advocates here believe.

And we all have access to it. Therefore, this argument is useless which says in effect, "No, it cannot be considered to be authoritative. Do not trust it. We must instead defer to some theoretical oral tradition that no one can produce and which cannot be shown to be different in content from the testimony of Sacred Scripture."
 
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BobRyan

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SOLA SCRIPTURA THE FINAL AUTHORITY AND SOLE RULE OF FAITH

The first recorded words of the serpent were “Did God really say?” *GENESIS 3:1. This question was designed to instill doubt and uncertainty about the trustworthiness and authority of God’s words. God had spoken clearly to our first parents; they were obliged to believe and obey. Then the serpent appeared, and the authority of God’s word was his first target.

The enemy has never stopped attacking that target; indeed, he continues to this day. He wants to undermine our trust in the authority of God’s word.

According to the scriptures, there is no salvation without Gods Word because salvation is by faith in God's Word alone (Sola scriptura) as it is written in the scriptures...

Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith (faith comes by the Word of God); and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Romans 14:23 ...whatsoever is not of faith is sin

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Matthew 4:4 Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

.................

A challenge to the enemies of Sola scriptura as the final authority and sole rule of faith and salvation. According to the scriptures alone no word = no faith and no faith = no salvation *Romans 10:17; Ephesians 2:8. Now how about you prove that scripture is not all sufficent when it is God's Word that states word for word that it is?

Q1. Please prove from the that "scripture is not the sole rule of faith" Where does faith come from in your view and what is the sole rule of faith ?

Q2. If we are only saved by God's Grace through faith *Epehsians 2:8 and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17 how can you have faith when there is no Word?

Q3. If we are told to not believe everyone but to test the Spirits if they are of God or not *1 JOHN 4:1-3 how are we to test them and to know what is truth and what is not truth if scripture is not the final standard to what truth is?

amen to that!
 
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You have been posted scripture which are the words of JESUS and the Apostles and prophets. In response you deny God's Word with your words.

I can only surmise you didn't read my posts in their entirety. As I said before, I do not deny God's Word be it written or spoken. And just because you say it, does not make it true. Sorry. What I do deny is your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of Scripture. Even if you do consider yourself 'infallible' as you stated on post #125, which quite frankly,

I find this very odd coming from a Protestant. What I also find odd, is how the other non-Catholic posters are giving you a pass. I guarantee, if it were a Catholic claiming to be infallible as you did, they would be all over that in a New Yourk minute! What's up with that people. Double standard?

There is only one standard of truth according to the scriptures and that is God's Word (John 17:17; John 8:31-32; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; 2 Timothy 3:16).

Very interesting coming from a person that cites many Scripture passages in their argument for SS. However, is this case you are incorrect. If you recall, my quest to you was."For the Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth - is it the Bible?" Why are you incorrect? Because of 1 Tim. 3:15. "But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth." The Church is the pillar and foundation of "truth". Oops! Looks like you have quite the dilemma here. Sooooo... are you going to claim that the Holy Spirit got it wrong, or did you?

No one said that biblical tradition if it is based on God's Word should be rejected so your argument here is not relevant to this discussion.

Sure it is. It even say's in the Bible that everything Jesus did or said was recorded in Scripture. (Jn.21:25).

Yet here you are not able to prove why it is you deny the very Word of God that has been shared with you.

Again, I do not deny God's Word, just your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of it. Sorry.

You still did not answer the question asked of you which is simply based on the scriptures in Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16; Romans 10:17; Romans 14:23 which are God's Words not mine.

Sure I did, you don't except my answer because it dosen't conform to your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation and man made unbiblical belief of SS.

Did you wish to have another go? "If salvation is by God's grace THROUGH FAITH how can you have God's salvation if you deny his Word?"

Don't need too, cause I already did. Sorry

No dear friend, I mean just what was posted earlier. Your posts and claims in this thread topic have been shown by the very writings of JESUS and the APOSTLES and Prophets to be in contradiction to the scriptures. You have been provided God's Word which is not my words but God's Word. Your response has only been to deny God's Word with your words which are not God's Word but your words. I know who I believe and it is not you. I do not judge you as you are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day according to the very scriptures we accept or reject *John 12:47-48. For me I only share his Words because he must increase and I (my opinion) must decrease.

Repetition post. And with it, I will keep repeating...I do not deny God's Word, just your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of it. Sorry.

I read your post indeed and that is why I asked you directly if you do not accept Sola scriptura as the final authority of what is truth and what is error, what is your standard of truth and error?

Sola Scriptura is in error.

Surely not the Pope and Church doctrine that is not biblical?

Again, SS may be your limitation, but please don't try to make it mine!

You did not answer this question. How can you know what truth is if you do not even have a definition of what truth is?

Ahhh... this coming from a person that didn't know for the Christian, what is the pillar and ground of the truth is?? Come on man!!

Yet Gods' Word alone defines truth as the very Word of God *John 17:17 which is the only definition of what truth is and why it is the final authority of truth and error accoring to the very words of JESUS.

What is in error, is not you quoting Scripture directly, but your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of it. And I am not about to risk my eternal soul on your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of it. I would also urge everyone else not to do so either!! Sorry.

Let me ask you again, what is your standard of truth and error if it is not the Word of God that you deny is the final authority of truth and error?

No.... what you should actually say is...."Let me repeat my self again". And my responce would be.... again.....I do not deny God's Word, be it written or spoken, but your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of it. Sorry.


Hope this is helpful.

No, your constant repetition is not helpful. Sorry


Have a Blessed day
 
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Albion

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As I said before, I do not deny God's Word be it written or spoken. And just because you say it, does not make it true. Sorry. What I do deny is your fallible, non-authoritative, personal interpretation of Scripture.
If so, you are off-topic.

The topic here is "SOLA SCRIPTURA THE FINAL AUTHORITY AND SOLE RULE OF FAITH"
 
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fhansen

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amen to that!
Of course it needn't be mentioned that you more than likely disagree on several points of Scriptural interpretation with the OP. Or maybe that doesn't matter. You both believe you have the correct source of revelation at least, regardless of whether or not you agree on many things it says.
 
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fhansen

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No, the term simply refers to something else.

Sola Scriptura does not refer to any particular interpretation of Scripture, or to the process of interpreting, nor does it imply that it doesn't matter which interpretation is accepted.
Yes, I understand. By itself it's a totally useless doctrine, which cannot even serve its purpose as teaching the appropriate use of Scripture.
 
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Albion

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Y You both believe you have the correct source of revelation at least, regardless of whether or not you agree on many things it says

Why, we have to wonder, would that be unimportant--having the correct/true/reliable source of information to work from?
 
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fhansen

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According to the scriptures, God's true Church are all those who have the Word of God and believe and follow it.
Soundspretty good.

The Bareans studied the scriptures to see if these things were true or not. This only supports the scriptures already provided in the OP and throughout this thread by others supporting Sola scriptura.
And yet the Bereans would've never arrived at the gospel on their own based on their understanding of Scripture without the input of the church, the church whose members later wrote the New Testament.
 
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