Saved by faith alone

[Bible Highlighter]

@Bible Highlighter off topic, but do you have kids?

While I have on rare occasions let a few details about me slip. I really strive not to do such things. No offense, but I am not ultimately here to talk about my personal life. I strive to not to do so because this is what leads to the problems we see happen on the internet (like with Facebook and Twitter). I am here to talk primarily about the things of the Lord. Besides, surely you can make a generic real world example that I can relate to without trying to make it personal.

In any event, whether you agree or disagree, may God bless you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The trouble with those who seek to do works to be saved? When you are led of the Spirit you do works that you do not even know are works. They seem like the natural thing to do, because what is done comes from a *transformed* mind. Those doing good works most likely would need someone to point them out to them to even realize it was a good work. Jesus will do that in the Great Evaluation of the saints.

In most cases the works must be present but I don’t believe it is true in all cases. A person must come to have faith in Christ and love for others before their time here on earth is finished. Now I believe this is possible to achieve in a person’s final moments in this world. I think the thief on the cross is a good example of this. Now some could argue that he did do a minuscule amount of works before his death and I wouldn’t argue against that but ultimately I think he truly did have a repentance of his sin, he did believe and acknowledge Christ, and I’d be willing to bet that if he had the opportunity he would’ve done good works resulting from love because at that time he was abiding in Christ. He couldn’t be saved unless he was abiding in Christ. Now one thing I’m not sure of in this case is, perhaps he had done works resulting from love before his conversion and perhaps these were taken into account. I really can’t say for sure. Our works are only filthy rags in God’s sight until we are justified and cleansed by Jesus’ sacrifice. After that our good works are pleasing to God, but Jesus’ sacrifice transcends time. So is it possible that after our conversion and justification that our previous works are no longer stained by our sins and can then be pleasing to God? That’s a question I haven’t found a definite answer to in scripture. What are your thoughts?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Good day, Bible Highlighter

I am ordering soon 1 and 2 Thessalonians is another release in the Zondervan Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament series.

1 and 2 Thessalonians

So I will pay close attention to the exegesis of the text in it's context, not sure what that has to do with the grammatical construction of the single text you quoted from 2 peter...

As for your silly assertions (basless as they are)... men love darkness and hate light.
so, they love not the truth not hard to understand. to them that are perishing it is foolishness.

Gill notes:

because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved; by the "truth" is meant either Christ the truth of types, the sum of promises, in whom the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are, and by whom grace and truth came; or the Gospel, often called truth, and the word of truth, it coming from the God of truth, has for its subject Christ the truth, is dictated and directed into by the spirit of truth, and contains nothing but truth: and by "the love" of it is meant, either the loveliness of it, for truth is an amiable, lovely thing, in its nature and use; or an affection for it, which there is, where true faith in it is, for faith works by love: there may be a flashy affection for the truths of the Gospel, where there is no true faith in Christ, or the root of the matter is not, as in the stony ground hearers; and there may be an historical faith in the doctrines of the Gospel, where the power of them is denied, and there is no true hearty love for them; and in these persons there is neither faith nor love; the truths of the Gospel are neither believed by them, nor are they affected with them, that so, they might be saved; for where there is true faith in the Gospel of Christ, and in Christ the substance of it, there is salvation; the reason therefore of these men's perishing is not the decree of God, nor even want of the means of grace, the revelation of the Gospel, but their rejection and contempt of it.


In Him,

Bill



2 Thessalonians 2 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)2 Thessalonians 2 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)

Okay. John Gill is a Calvinist. No doubt that is why you quoted from his commentary. I cannot presume the reasons why John Gill quoted how "might be saved" works in his version of Calvinism. There are many shades of Calvinism; And I don't have time to bother with what some Calvinist believes in the past when I find Calvinism to be highly unbiblical.

But in traditional Calvinism: "might be saved" is not something that exists in the world of Calvinism as we know it today.

In traditional Calvinism today: One is either elected to reprobation or one is elected to salvation. There is no “might be saved” that enters into the equation in what we know of the popular version of Calvinism today.

I just don't agree with Calvinism because too many verses have to be changed or ignored in order to make it work. But we can agree to disagree. Not looking to get into an endless debate with you here. I already pointed out the problems in the verses I already shown. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will see and hear what I am talking about.

Besides, this thread is not really about Calvinism.
It's about faith alone (Which is another belief I find to be unbiblical).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think that parable is a lesson to Christians who know Christ, but are unwilling to share, enjoy it, explain it unto others. That servant who hid the talent was only concerned about his own salvation, a selfish Christian. He wasn't doing the Lord's work on earth. He/she had an attitude of- 'Oh well i'm saved now, i have no need to spread the Gospel to others'

And the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30).

Gnashing of teeth is what wolves do.

 

[friend of]

Sorry Jason I was just asking because if you have kids or you understood what it was like to have kids you would probably not disown them entirely even if they did stuff that you didn't like right? They would still do your kids and you would still love them dearly even if they didn't follow your orders every single time. I think God is like that in our relationship with him as well. Just a comment I'm curious was if you do agree or disagree

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry Jason I was just asking because if you have kids or you understood what it was like to have kids you would probably not disown them entirely even if they did stuff that you didn't like right? They would still do your kids and you would still love them dearly even if they didn't follow your orders every single time. I think God is like that in our relationship with him as well. Just a comment I'm curious was if you do agree or disagree

The children of the kingdom are said to be cast into outer darkness.

"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:12).​

In the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32): When the prodigal son came home from his riotous life of sin and he sought forgiveness with his father, his father said that his son was "dead" and is "alive again." The son was said to be "lost" and now he is "found." Generally when we talk about the "lost" in the Bible, they are the unsaved or spiritually lost. In other words, the parable is utilizing spiritual terms. The son was spiritually dead when he was living a life of sin, and when he came back home to the father and sought forgiveness with him, he became alive again spiritually. This truth is confirmed by James 5:19-20.

You can even be in the Kingdom and be cast out because of sin or iniquity.

For the Son of Man (Jesus) will one day send forth his angels and they will gather out of His Kingdom all who offend (sin) and those who do iniquity (intense sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:41-42).​

Also, I doubt very much that if a father's son turned out to be Hitler, and this son desired to kill their own father and his own family that he would be considered as a son by his father and that he would be willing to welcome home to fellowship with his family over a meal. Why would the father do that if the son was seeking to hurt him and his other loved family members? Such a son would show that he is no longer a beloved son of the family because such a son would destroy the family's existence. You cannot have a family if they are dead and gone.

There are serious sins to God and they break fellowship with God because He is a holy, just, and good God. We cannot condone sin and think we can be saved. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2:16 says that we have the mind of Christ. Most Christians today believe they can sin and still be saved on some level. That this is okay for a believer to think this way. But Jesus never had this kind of thinking. How could He? Jesus is God. He could never condone sin. So if we are to truly have the mind of Christ, we cannot justify sin on some level, as well.

 

[Daryn]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Yeshua is the savior of all men just as the word of God says. If one confesses Yeshua as the Christ they enter the New Earth and if they dont then they still enter the New Earth only via the Lake of Fire which purifies and one will confess Yeshua as the Christ.

 

[Jonaitis]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Your obedience does not sustain your faith, that's the independent work of the Holy Spirit. Your obedience is the fruit of your faith. If you are bearing good fruit, then you are displaying an outward expression of your faith. It is the evidence that you are a believer.

 

[Radagast]

Yeshua is the savior of all men just as the word of God says. If one confesses Yeshua as the Christ they enter the New Earth and if they dont then they still enter the New Earth only via the Lake of Fire which purifies and one will confess Yeshua as the Christ.

That's not what the Bible says.

 

[friend of]

Also, I doubt very much that if a father's son turned out to be Hitler, and this son desired to kill their own father and his own family that he would be considered as a son by his father and that he would be willing to welcome home to fellowship with his family over a meal.

Okay, but that is excessive. Most parents dont foster murderous children.

 

[friend of]

Would you cast your own child into hell just cuz they make mistakes and disobey you from time to time? I should hope and think not

 

[GenemZ]

The Judaizers were wrong because they taught righteousness based on the traditions of the fathers(Judaism). Judaism is a manmade religion that teaches self-righteousness through adherence to their manmade traditions and commandments(now called the oral law)

Moses, the Prophets & the Messiah did not teach Judaism.

That is what Pharisees taught - they placed those traditions and commandments over the commands of God, as given to Moses. The Messiah constantly rebuked them for placing their traditions over the commandments of God.

Just a point is needed please.

The Gospels were Jesus setting Judaism straight.

Moses, the Prophets & the Messiah did teach Judaism.

The Pharisees taught Phariseeism. Not Judaism. Jesus taught perfect Judaism.

Both the Pharisees and Sadducees were killed and wiped out in 70AD when Rome destroyed Jerusalem.

 

[klutedavid]

I don't believe we aren't saved because we don't hold to faith alone, but that it's the faith alone that saves us.

By grace through faith.

 

[klutedavid]

John 14:15 'if you love me keep my commandments"

That's extremely important in keeping the faith in Christ our redeemer.

Personally i believe keeping Christ's commandments takes place within the heart of a true Christian. All the characteristics/traits/attitudes/behaviour Paul, Peter, and others NT saints explained in detail was there to help edify the early church in fulfilling the law.

The reformed/messianic church which separated itself from Paganism/Judiasm didn't need to be in bondage to OT laws, dietary laws, ceremonies and other practices.

We as blood bought Christians are free from those things, but our behaviour and attitudes needs corrected at times because we're still in a sinfull state. That correction may come come from the Lord himself, through our minister, our friends in Christ, our elders, deacons, the bible or even by self examination.

But which set of commandments?

The commandments Noah was given?

The commandments Moses was given?

The commandments specified in Acts 15?

The commandments that Jesus gave?

The commandments that Paul gave?

 

[zoidar]

If I may ask what were you before?

Saved by faith plus works.

 

[zoidar]

Besides, this thread is not really about Calvinism.
It's about faith alone (Which is another belief I find to be unbiblical).

How can I know I'm saved if salvation depends on my works? I have to look at myself, right? That's where my problem started. I could never see me good enough.

 

[Hmm]

I don't think judging by the works we perform would be the right thing to do since, after all, anyone can do charitable or helpful things and have no commitment to the Lord at all.

However, the best we can do is believe and trust. Everyone talks about belief, and almost never talks about trust, yet that is what Jesus told his own disciples they should do. Trust him for your salvation.

Thanks. Trust is a good word to use alongside belief because belief has an intellectual quality about it while trust suggests that decision and commitment is involved as well.

Could I ask another question? This may be very hypothetical but suppose someone feels that they have a faith and that they believe and trust in God as much as they can. Suppose also though that they don't notice any changes in their lives. They're not bearing any fruit such as finding any peace for example. I suppose my question is, is this possible? Is it possible to have a real faith but not naturally develop these fruits of the spirit? Or is it a clear sign that the person is doing something wrong and has not thought his/her faith through properly for example? Lots of question marks there but it's really only one question!

 

[zoidar]

But in 1 Corinthians 13 Paul makes it clear that a person can have true faith without love.


“If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:1-3‬ ‭NASB‬‬

How else can someone speak with the tongue of angels or prophecy if not by the Holy Spirit? How can someone possess the Holy Spirit without a true faith? How can someone move mountains without true faith?

It's poetic. From this we could draw the conclusion that you don't need faith to be saved, since love is bigger than faith. Some liberal Christians believe that. Even a Buddhist or a Muslim can be great in love. Not fully sure how to understand it, more than the love of Christ to us and through us is the biggest thing.

 

[zoidar]

Your obedience does not sustain your faith, that's the independent work of the Holy Spirit. Your obedience is the fruit of your faith. If you are bearing good fruit, then you are displaying an outward expression of your faith. It is the evidence that you are a believer.

Sometimes we have to be brave. Even the biggest believer can choose poorly. It's a matter of choosing good even when it's terribly hard to do so. Some believers may renounce Christ if their lives depends on it.

 

[Hammster]

I guess we read it a little differently, Ham.

I read it as it’s written.