Saved by faith alone

[Blood Bought 1953]

Perhaps. Any view of OSAS that is different will be a contradiction.

My point was....if a person is truly saved....and then they change their theology...they remain saved.

Any “ True Believer “ can fall into error....God will bring him back to the Truth Of “ Nothing But The Blood” For Salvation, I Believe...If not— Grace has got it covered....

 

[GenemZ]

But in 1 Corinthians 13 Paul makes it clear that a person can have true faith without love.

Faith without love in this sense...

Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard
through the word about Christ." Rom 10:17​

Some people can sit in a church and learn the knowledge of the message (substance of faith) without being regenerate. Or, just be habitually in their flesh (carnal) They may just have a good academic mind, one that got them good grades on tests requiring recall.

These ones have faith. But, its dead faith. No love.

No love means? Not being filled with the Spirit! For one of the fruit of the Spirit is love.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness,
goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things
there is no law." Gal 5:22-23​

grace and peace

 

[RushMAN]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

If I may ask what were you before?

 

[BNR32FAN]

OK. Then what do you want to argue about? Why are you even talking to me?

I just wanted to point out the difference between what James and Paul were teaching. James is not teaching that we are justified (made right by God) by our works and faith while Paul was teaching that we are not justified (made right with God) by our works and faith. James’ reference was that Abraham’s works were evidence of his faith, not that Abraham was made right with God by his works along with his faith. If works and faith play a role in justification then the Judiasers were right and Paul had no reason to rebuke Peter.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Faith without love in this sense...

Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard
through the word about Christ." Rom 10:17​

Some people can sit in a church and learn the knowledge of the message (substance of faith) without being regenerate. Or, just be habitually in their flesh (carnal) They may just have a good academic mind, one that got them good grades on tests requiring recall.

These ones have faith. But, its dead faith. No love.

No love means? Not being filled with the Spirit! For one of the fruit of the Spirit is love.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness,
goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things
there is no law." Gal 5:22-23​

grace and peace

Yes I agree and if you look at James 2:14-16 notice the works he mentions. These are works that result from love. You’ll see a similarity in the works Jesus listed in Matthew 25:31-46 when He condemned the goats for not having done these works. Again these were also works that result from love.

 

[Albion]

I believe in faith through grace but how do we know when we have faith? I was wondering that if we are to assess the authenticity of our faith through the fruits it produces in our lives aren't we really in the same position of judging ourselves by our works?

I don't think judging by the works we perform would be the right thing to do since, after all, anyone can do charitable or helpful things and have no commitment to the Lord at all.

However, the best we can do is believe and trust. Everyone talks about belief, and almost never talks about trust, yet that is what Jesus told his own disciples they should do. Trust him for your salvation.

 

[friend of]

@Bible Highlighter off topic, but do you have kids?

 

[Nova2216]

That's like separating all the parts of your car and categorizing each one. But your wheels can not transport you. Nor ,can the brakes.

But, its your car with all its parts that gets you from point A to point B.

We are saved by One thing, consisting of many parts.

27 things do not save us. One thing that saves us is multidimensional in its operation.

One thing saves us from the Lake of Fire. The Cross.

Everything else is designed to save us from evil in this world, while we remain in the world after becoming saved from the Lake of Fire. We become saved from the Lake of Fire by believing in Christ. But be a failure at being saved from evil in this world will take place if we neglect the good fight to secure sound doctrine to think with and live with.

Well then, there is no need to BELIEVE then, is there.

 

[Nova2216]

I don't think judging by the works we perform would be the right thing to do since, after all, anyone can do charitable or helpful things and have no commitment to the Lord at all.

However, the best we can do is believe and trust. Everyone talks about belief, and almost never talks about trust, yet that is what Jesus told his own disciples they should do. Trust him for your salvation.

I may have a parachute on my back but I have not trusted it will keep me safe UNTIL I step out of an airplane at 10,000 feet.

Then I have trusted in that parachute to SAVE MY LIFE.

(Rom. 6:3-18)

16 Decide who to serve
17 Obey a certain doctrine (Rom.6:3-6) (Acts 8:5,12,23,26-40)
18 BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN ye became servants of righteousness. (Acts 11:26)

 

[Nova2216]

It may astound you to learn the word Believe can be translated as OBEY.


A Reply to a Denominational Preacher

(excerpt)

Page # 22

Christianity is a system of faith, and in that arrangement the individual who is converted to Christ undergoes that change by his personal belief. God's scheme of human redemption makes salvation contingent upon one's response to His plan.

22

There are a number of words in the New Testament which belong to the same family and are translated faith or belief. It would help tremendously in the understanding of the subject to examine and define these words and observe how they are used in these passages of the word of God. The root word for faith is peitho, and it means "to persuade, or to be persuaded; to confide in, trust." This word is used 55 times in the New Testament. Here are some of the uses: (1) Trust. "He trusted in God" (Matthew 27:43). This is our word for faith. (2) Persuade. "... and am persuaded of the Lord Jesus" (Romans 14:14). (3)Confidence. "We have confidence in the Lord" (II Thessalonians 3:4). (4) Obey. Some seven times this word is translated obey. "As many as obeyed him ..." (Acts 5:36). "Obey them that have the rule over you" (Hebrews 13:17). "That they should not obey the truth" (Galatians 3:1; Romans 2:8; Galatians 5:7; Acts 5:37; James 3:3).

The word obey in these passages is from peitho, the root word for faith. "As many as obeyed him ... as many as were convinced and persuaded by him." The word pistis is a cognate (that is, related by birth; belonging to the same family of words) of peitho, used 244 times in the New Testament, and following is the definition of this word faith by the standard, reputable scholars of the New Testament language.

How the Lexicons Define Faith
Pistis (faith): "Used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e., a conviction full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah, the divinely appointed Author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ. In faith to give one's self up to" (-Henry William Thayer).

 

[Dkh587]

I just wanted to point out the difference between what James and Paul were teaching. James is not teaching that we are justified (made right by God) by our works and faith while Paul was teaching that we are not justified (made right with God) by our works and faith. James’ reference was that Abraham’s works were evidence of his faith, not that Abraham was made right with God by his works along with his faith. If works and faith play a role in justification then the Judiasers were right and Paul had no reason to rebuke Peter.

The Judaizers were wrong because they taught righteousness based on the traditions of the fathers(Judaism). Judaism is a manmade religion that teaches self-righteousness through adherence to their manmade traditions and commandments(now called the oral law)

Moses, the Prophets & the Messiah did not teach Judaism.

That is what Pharisees taught - they placed those traditions and commandments over the commands of God, as given to Moses. The Messiah constantly rebuked them for placing their traditions over the commandments of God.

Works complete faith.

 

[Dkh587]

It may astound you to learn the word Believe can be translated as OBEY.


A Reply to a Denominational Preacher

(excerpt)

Page # 22

Christianity is a system of faith, and in that arrangement the individual who is converted to Christ undergoes that change by his personal belief. God's scheme of human redemption makes salvation contingent upon one's response to His plan.

22

There are a number of words in the New Testament which belong to the same family and are translated faith or belief. It would help tremendously in the understanding of the subject to examine and define these words and observe how they are used in these passages of the word of God. The root word for faith is peitho, and it means "to persuade, or to be persuaded; to confide in, trust." This word is used 55 times in the New Testament. Here are some of the uses: (1) Trust. "He trusted in God" (Matthew 27:43). This is our word for faith. (2) Persuade. "... and am persuaded of the Lord Jesus" (Romans 14:14). (3)Confidence. "We have confidence in the Lord" (II Thessalonians 3:4). (4) Obey. Some seven times this word is translated obey. "As many as obeyed him ..." (Acts 5:36). "Obey them that have the rule over you" (Hebrews 13:17). "That they should not obey the truth" (Galatians 3:1; Romans 2:8; Galatians 5:7; Acts 5:37; James 3:3).

The word obey in these passages is from peitho, the root word for faith. "As many as obeyed him ... as many as were convinced and persuaded by him." The word pistis is a cognate (that is, related by birth; belonging to the same family of words) of peitho, used 244 times in the New Testament, and following is the definition of this word faith by the standard, reputable scholars of the New Testament language.

How the Lexicons Define Faith
Pistis (faith): "Used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e., a conviction full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah, the divinely appointed Author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ. In faith to give one's self up to" (-Henry William Thayer).

thanks for sharing this.

believing is directly tied into obeying throughout the entire Bible. Most people don’t have a correct understanding of what believing/trusting/faith is, so they are not able to make the connection between obedience & faith.

 

[GenemZ]

Yes I agree and if you look at James 2:14-16 notice the works he mentions. These are works that result from love. You’ll see a similarity in the works Jesus listed in Matthew 25:31-46 when He condemned the goats for not having done these works. Again these were also works that result from love.

The trouble with those who seek to do works to be saved? When you are led of the Spirit you do works that you do not even know are works. They seem like the natural thing to do, because what is done comes from a *transformed* mind. Those doing good works most likely would need someone to point them out to them to even realize it was a good work. Jesus will do that in the Great Evaluation of the saints.

 

[Jermayn]

I have gone back to "saved by faith alone". Why? One reason was I could find no peace when I had to look at my own life to see if I was saved. Do works matter? Surely so! By obedience we keep our faith, but it's by faith through the Holy Spirit we are connected to Christ, the cross, the forgiveness of sins. Through the Holy Spirit we are children of God.

Tim 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing.

What many fail to understand is that there are 2 kinds of faith; living and dead. A person with living faith obeys the commands of the Lord Jesus and evidence of this can be seen by his or her baring the fruits of the Spirit. Those with dead faith give lip service to the Lord and nothing more. They bare the fruits of the flesh and Jesus describes them as the seeds the fell on shallow soil and the seeds that were choked out by the thorns in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13). James Ch. 2 goes into detail about living and dead faith and explicitly says that dead faith will not save anyone. I had professed Christianity for about 28 years when the Lord opened my eyes to this. I recall being confused by that particular chapter on faith (James Ch. 2) and asking God to show me the meaning. A few days later this thought came to my mind that if I were in a room with a bunch of non-believers and we had to give an account of our lives, no one would be able to recognize who the Christian in the room was. There was another experience I had that I'll refrain from covering right now because of the length of the post, but that's when everything made sense, and it was truly amazing and life altering.

 

[Basil the Great]

Where does it say that?

Matthew 25: 34-46

 

[GenemZ]

Well then, there is no need to BELIEVE then, is there.

...... hello?

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 25: 34-46

No, the parable describes the separation of sheep and goats. Then it describes their behavior. Their behavior doesn’t make them sheep or goats.

 

[Basil the Great]

No, the parable describes the separation of sheep and goats. Then it describes their behavior. Their behavior doesn’t make them sheep or goats.

I guess we read it a little differently, Ham.

 

[GenemZ]

No, the parable describes the separation of sheep and goats. Then it describes their behavior. Their behavior doesn’t make them sheep or goats.

Agreed. That would be backwards if it did. It does not make them sheep or goats. Being sheep or goats makes them do what they do. Those who are God's will act one way. Those who reject God will act another. Keep in mind, that speaks of doing what they did under a time of greater pressure with a potential to have their lives threatened. During times like that our true self comes to the surface.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Judaizers were wrong because they taught righteousness based on the traditions of the fathers(Judaism). Judaism is a manmade religion that teaches self-righteousness through adherence to their manmade traditions and commandments(now called the oral law)

Moses, the Prophets & the Messiah did not teach Judaism.

That is what Pharisees taught - they placed those traditions and commandments over the commands of God, as given to Moses. The Messiah constantly rebuked them for placing their traditions over the commandments of God.

Works complete faith.

The law was a stumbling block intentionally implemented by God to show the Jews their need of a Savior. The Jews believed that the laws were implemented to ensure that they did keep God’s commandments. They did not plan to hold their own traditions above God’s commandments. Take Paul for example. Paul fully thought he was keeping God’s commandments by persecuting Christians until Jesus came to him and opened his eyes. Paul had no intention of disobeying God’s commandments when he hunted, beat, and arrested Christians. The Pharisees are a bad example to use for most Judaisers because for many of them their heart was dark and they were boastful of their self righteousness. This wasn’t true with most Judaisers. Most of them were devoted servants of God who believed that while Jesus is the Messiah, God’s commandments for the Jews must still be kept. They lacked the understanding that it was not by the letter of the law that their salvation could be attained but only by their faith in Christ could they be saved. This is why Paul had to explain this to them. But the moment the works themselves become a determining factor in our salvation then salvation is no longer by grace, a free and unmerited favor of God. It’s not about the works themselves, it’s about the motivation behind the works. Love is the key. Love is not a work, it is a gift. Love is compassion, an emotion. The goats weren’t condemned because they lacked works. Look at the works Jesus listed there, they all derive from love, every one of them. The goats lacked love. The two most important commandments, love is at the very foundation of both of them. How do we abide in Christ? By loving one another. Faith and works is not the formula for salvation my friend, it’s faith and love. When you love someone the works will always be present. As long as you have faith and love the rest will work itself out naturally.