A simple command

[shilohsfoal]

It still does not mean that most of the prophecy was fulfilled in the person of Antoichus. To say that only the Pharisees interpreted it that way and only Rabbis interpret it that way doesn't hold ground either - the Jews were the people of God, the saints before the Christ Christ came and before the Gentile church, and no doubt they had already interpreted it that way by the time Christ came.

The Pharisees taught the abomination of desolation spoken if by the prophet Daniel was placed in 167 bc before Christ.

Christ taught the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel would be in the future.

Like I said. The Pharisees were wrong. Jesus is right. The Pharisees led many astay and still are today.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have thought about it, of course, but although you are right (in certain respects), you are also wrong in certain respects.

Doubtfully!

Just as Christ rules through humans who obey His authority, so the prince of the power of the air (Satan) now rules through humans who reject God's authority and the authority of His Christ,

So, your point is that has to do with HORN?

You're over-spiritualizing things

Quoting God's Word, word to word, is not "over-spirtiualizing things" God said that horn signifies power. It is up to you to receive it or not.

This dualism of yours is the foundation for A-Millennialism, yet just a little thought about it, accompanied by a belief in God's Word, and you will realize that in Christ, who became flesh, died and rose again, giving the whole creation the hope of deliverance from bondage to decay/corruption, there exists no dualistic chasm between God and His creation.

Huh? Your point is? What does this have to do with horn?! You are distracting issues.

Right now you have Satan bound, when apostles warn us that the devil roams about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, and apostles speak about the prince of the power of the air who now (at present time) works in the sons of disobedience.

Of course. Satan was bound FOR THE ELECT! Not for the world! Satan was bound so that Gospel can reach people to get saved. Although Satan's power to deceived has been restrained, he still works through unsaved people. When the building of the church is finished, with all Elect God intend to be sealed, as been sealed through the testimony of Two Witnesses, then God will loosened Satan and restore his power to deceive the nations once again.

There was always a human king and always will be a human king who becomes the horn

Who said that? You or God. Show us the Scripture instead of your personal interpretation.

governed by the prince of the power of the air.

This assumption does not make a horn, a man. Horn signifies POWER, not human male. That is God's definition. Not yours.

These facts are scriptural.

Oh, where are your verses that confirm "your" facts?

Your over-spiritualizing is erroneous

No, you are saying this, becasue you did not like what I quoted. Your problem is with God. Not me.

because I know that as humans we all (including you) tend to think we know, when we don't know.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 KJV
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you want to refute the Scripture I quoted explaining that horn signifies power. You need to show us the Scripture that says otherwise. You have not done it yet. Just personal rants filled with false accusations against me for "over-spiritualizing." In other words, you do not receive God's Word, word for word, that I testified.

 

[nolidad]

Yes there is a time frame. 42 months
At the beginning of the occupation the daily sacrifice is abolished. 1290 days later the abomination of desolation is placed.
3 1/2 years, a time, times and a half.

Daniel 12:7 And the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, raised his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by Him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, and times, and half a time. When the power of the holy people has finally been shattered, all these things will be completed."

Daniel 12:11 And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days.

And you are mixing two different prophecies concerning two different times and making them one!

Daniel 12 is the end, Daniel 11 was after Alexander the great!

 

[TribulationSigns]

And you are mixing two different prophecies concerning two different times and making them one!

Not at all.

Daniel 12 is the end, Daniel 11 was after Alexander the great!

A studies will be prepared for those chapters. Stay tuned!

 

[nolidad]

Not at all.



A studies will be prepared for those chapters. Stay tuned!

Saying no is easy! But your writings have long betrayed you.

Your study should be very interesting reading indeed!

 

[shilohsfoal]

And you are mixing two different prophecies concerning two different times and making them one!

Daniel 12 is the end, Daniel 11 was after Alexander the great!

Daniel 11is the time of the end.

Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

The king of the South is the beast attacking Jerusalem where the king of the norths soldiers are stationed. .

 

[Timtofly]

The Pharisees taught the abomination of desolation spoken if by the prophet Daniel was placed in 167 bc before Christ.

Christ taught the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel would be in the future.

Like I said. The Pharisees were wrong. Jesus is right. The Pharisees led many astay and still are today.

Sometimes both are right. The Pharisees at the time of Christ were not wrong in their Daniel prophecies. They were wrong in who the Messiah was. But even in being wrong in that was a fulfillment of prophecy. Now today's Pharisees are still wrong on the Resurrection and the Lamb's return. They claim the book of Revelation already happened and a Resurrection is still future. That is opposite of the Bible. The Resurrection happened at the Cross, and the book of Revelation and it's event have just started now. The only Resurrection will be of those who die after the 7th seal is opened. And Revelation happens in order. The Trumpets start only after the 7th seal, not before. The Resurrection happens after the battle of Armageddon. It happens on the first Monday of a literal 1000 year event. The sheep, wheat, and those beheaded will reign with Christ, the Lamb, for 1000 years while the goats and tares remain in Death, until the end of the 1000 years. This is the time of peace that Isaiah prophecied. The peace promised to David. The everlasting covenant with Abraham. It will last on this earth for 1000 years. It will extend into a totally new reality that we are not told much about. Adam's Garden of Eden, Paradise, will be the New Jerusalem separate from both heaven and earth.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Sometimes both are right. The Pharisees at the time of Christ were not wrong in their Daniel prophecies. They were wrong in who the Messiah was. But even in being wrong in that was a fulfillment of prophecy. Now today's Pharisees are still wrong on the Resurrection and the Lamb's return. They claim the book of Revelation already happened and a Resurrection is still future. That is opposite of the Bible. The Resurrection happened at the Cross, and the book of Revelation and it's event have just started now. The only Resurrection will be of those who die after the 7th seal is opened. And Revelation happens in order. The Trumpets start only after the 7th seal, not before. The Resurrection happens after the battle of Armageddon. It happens on the first Monday of a literal 1000 year event. The sheep, wheat, and those beheaded will reign with Christ, the Lamb, for 1000 years while the goats and tares remain in Death, until the end of the 1000 years. This is the time of peace that Isaiah prophecied. The peace promised to David. The everlasting covenant with Abraham. It will last on this earth for 1000 years. It will extend into a totally new reality that we are not told much about. Adam's Garden of Eden, Paradise, will be the New Jerusalem separate from both heaven and earth.

So you believe the Pharisees were right and Christ is wrong concerning Daniels prophecy.

Most Christians believe Christ.

 

[Timtofly]

So you believe the Pharisees were right and Christ is wrong concerning Daniels prophecy.

Most Christians believe Christ.

Both were right, perhaps modern imagination is wrong?

 

[shilohsfoal]

Both were right, perhaps modern imagination is wrong?

Both can't be right because they disagree.
Either the abomination of desolation spoke by Daniel was placed in 167 Bc like the Pharisees taught or it is placed at the time of the end like Daniel and Christ taught.

I have no idea why you have so much faith in the Pharisees. Do you believe they are as wise as they claimed to be?

 

[Timtofly]

Both can't be right because they disagree.
Either the abomination of desolation spoke by Daniel was placed in 167 Bc like the Pharisees taught or it is placed at the time of the end like Daniel and Christ taught.

I have no idea why you have so much faith in the Pharisees. Do you believe they are as wise as they claimed to be?

It is not that they are wise. It is more likely the same person or likeness will be the center of attention in both events. Today, people's imagination wants to place more into Revelation than it actually states. Trying to force events where they do not belong is the issue. There is no elaborate build up to the future event. Both sides are present. Humanity is fully aware. That Satan is allowed any time was already planned for. What happens will not be a surprise to any one after the 6th seal. The outcome will be known at that event. The problem is that some do not take the 6th seal seriously, or they place it in the wrong position. Those who claim the seals started in the 1st century would have no real concept of the importance of the 5th and 6th seals to begin with. The harvest is here and now, not over the last 2000 years.

 

[shilohsfoal]

It is not that they are wise. It is more likely the same person or likeness will be the center of attention in both events. Today, people's imagination wants to place more into Revelation than it actually states. Trying to force events where they do not belong is the issue. There is no elaborate build up to the future event. Both sides are present. Humanity is fully aware. That Satan is allowed any time was already planned for. What happens will not be a surprise to any one after the 6th seal. The outcome will be known at that event. The problem is that some do not take the 6th seal seriously, or they place it in the wrong position. Those who claim the seals started in the 1st century would have no real concept of the importance of the 5th and 6th seals to begin with. The harvest is here and now, not over the last 2000 years.

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

I really don't think the Pharisees understand Daniels prophecy. Only those who are wise do. But if you insist the Pharisees are wise, you then must believe they are clean.
I don't know why you have such faith in the Pharisees but it certainly is much.

 

[Timtofly]

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

I really don't think the Pharisees understand Daniels prophecy. Only those who are wise do. But if you insist the Pharisees are wise, you then must believe they are clean.
I don't know why you have such faith in the Pharisees but it certainly is much.

If you do not understand my post, what are you trying to point out? Are you saying no one can know anything about Daniel's prophecies? Even athiest understand history and theology.

 

[shilohsfoal]

If you do not understand my post, what are you trying to point out? Are you saying no one can know anything about Daniel's prophecies? Even athiest understand history and theology.

No, they don't understand Daniels prophecy.
If they did then God would have lied.

Only those who are wise will understand.

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

Do you really believe God could be wrong?
If one single wicked person understands Daniels prophecy then that would make God a lier.

 

[Timtofly]

No, they don't understand Daniels prophecy.
If they did then God would have lied.

Only those who are wise will understand.

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

Do you really believe God could be wrong?
If one single wicked person understands Daniels prophecy then that would make God a lier.

You are making judgment calls out of context. Verse 8 says Daniel did not understand either. You condem Daniel, in your rush to prove God is a liar? It seems to me that most here do not understand either, because they just make stuff up including taking verses out of context to make a point. That is not what the Bible was written for. Verse 10 is still a future event. How can it apply to any one today, much less 2000 years ago? People who do not understand right now have nothing to do with those verses from Daniel 12. We today have been deceived by Satan to believe that a lie is the truth, and a truth seems like a lie.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You are making judgment calls out of context. Verse 8 says Daniel did not understand either. You condem Daniel, in your rush to prove God is a liar? It seems to me that most here do not understand either, because they just make stuff up including taking verses out of context to make a point. That is not what the Bible was written for. Verse 10 is still a future event. How can it apply to any one today, much less 2000 years ago? People who do not understand right now have nothing to do with those verses from Daniel 12. We today have been deceived by Satan to believe that a lie is the truth, and a truth seems like a lie.

The verse does not say every prophet Including Daniel must understand. The text says none of the wicked will understand.

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

But according to you, the entire sect of the Pharisees do understand.
Why would you believe God is wrong or do you honestly believe the Pharisees are wise?
Do you also believe the Pharisees are purified and spotless?

 

[Timtofly]

The verse does not say every prophet Including Daniel must understand. The text says none of the wicked will understand.

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

But according to you, the entire sect of the Pharisees do understand.
Why would you believe God is wrong or do you honestly believe the Pharisees are wise?
Do you also believe the Pharisees are purified and spotless?

Taking a verse out of context can be made to say whatever you want it to say. You do not seem to be too concerned about how you use Scripture. If you did, these false assumptions would not be an issue. Not understanding is the issue. You still have not pointed out any contradictions, other than false assumptions. What the Pharisees knew is not even the point. Perhaps addressing the point would be a wiser choice? Knowing that something is true, does not change a person's heart and attitude. One can deny the truth even with full understanding.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Taking a verse out of context can be made to say whatever you want it to say. You do not seem to be too concerned about how you use Scripture. If you did, these false assumptions would not be an issue. Not understanding is the issue. You still have not pointed out any contradictions, other than false assumptions. What the Pharisees knew is not even the point. Perhaps addressing the point would be a wiser choice? Knowing that something is true, does not change a person's heart and attitude. One can deny the truth even with full understanding.

I'm not taking one verse out of context. I'm saying this verse is about the context which is Daniels prophecy

Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless, and refined, but the wicked will continue to act wickedly. None of the wicked will understand, but the wise will understand.

Fact is the Pharisees were wrong and Christ is right.
The wicked Pharisees taught that the abomination of desolation was placed in 167 bc.
Jesus said that it had not been placed yet in the gospel.

You claim the wicked Pharisees sect understand Daniels prophecy. God say NONE OF THE WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND.

Now you claim I'm taking the verse out of context because you believe the same thing the wicked Pharisees sect believes. It's your choice to believe the Pharisees Insted of studying to find thier error.
Its your choice.
Matthew 24:15 KJV: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Matthew 24:16 KJV: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24:17 KJV: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matthew 24:18 KJV: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matthew 24:19 KJV: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matthew 24:20 KJV: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matthew 24:21 KJV: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Daniel 12:1 KJV: And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Daniel 12:2 KJV: And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Zao is life]

There was always a human king and always will be a human king who becomes the horn

Who said that? You or God. Show us the Scripture instead of your personal interpretation.

governed by the prince of the power of the air.

This assumption does not make a horn, a man. Horn signifies POWER, not human male. That is God's definition. Not yours.

No, you are saying this, becasue you did not like what I quoted. Your problem is with God. Not me.

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 KJV
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If you want to refute the Scripture I quoted explaining that horn signifies power. You need to show us the Scripture that says otherwise. You have not done it yet. Just personal rants filled with false accusations against me for "over-spiritualizing." In other words, you do not receive God's Word, word for word, that I testified.

The Word of God Himself tells us that the horns represent (human) kings:-

"And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another (king) shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he (the king symbolized by the horn)) shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and plot to change times and laws. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time.

But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end." (Dan 7:24-26).

"And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have received no kingdom yet, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast." (Rev 17:12-13).

"Then I lifted up my eyes, and looked. And behold, a ram with two horns stood before the Canal having two horns, and the two horns were high, but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last." (Dan 8:3)

"The ram which you saw having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the shaggy goat is the king of Greece. And the great horn between his eyes is the first king." (Dan 8:20-21).

The Word of God Himself tells us that the horns represent (human) kings. I think you've been watching too much sci-ifi ("May the horn be with you" and all that).

 

[nolidad]

Daniel 11is the time of the end.

Daniel 11:40 At the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, but the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots, horsemen, and many ships, invading many countries and sweeping through them like a flood.

The king of the South is the beast attacking Jerusalem where the king of the norths soldiers are stationed. .

The Beast is the Antichrist and does no such thing! Everytime the "end" appears it doesn't mean last days! context determines time and here it is the time of the end of Antiochus reign! All you need do is read a history of Antiochus (Epiphanes) and his conquests, wars and death and you see it fulfills Daniel 11 fully!