20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[Gregory Thompson]

(8) Because these thousand years cannot be found anywhere else in Scripture, apart from the highly symbolic Revelation 20, Premil is forced to insert a thousand years in text after text where it doesn't exist. Objective Bible students should struggle with building their eschatology on the 3rd last chapter of the Bible, in a highly figurative setting, especially when we are supposedly talking about the 2nd greatest age ever. The scriptural silence elsewhere speaks loud to most of us!

This is where God speaks of the rest He enters into. I described it in an earlier post in more detail.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(9) Premil is constantly exalting the power and influence of Satan and diluting the sovereign power and influence of Christ. That is nowhere more evident than in their constant rubbishing of Christ’s current kingship over His enemies at the right hand of majesty on high. Whether they mean to or not, Premils are always highlighting what Satan is doing in our day instead of what Christ is doing. Premil portrays a BIG devil and a small god; Scripture presents a small devil and a BIG God. In Premil, Satan seems sovereign in this age and God is curtailed. Premils are always lauding the ability of Satan since the cross. In Scripture, Christ is sovereign and Satan is curtailed. Scripture is always lauding the ability of Christ since the cross. As a consequence, Premil portrays an impotent beat-down New Testament Church, whereas Scripture sees a victorious potent New Testament Church invading the nations with the good news of Christ and subjugating the powers of darkness as they do so. In Scripture Christ reigns over all creation as God and His new creation as Saviour.

Yeah, I think this may be a generation gap issue and not a Pre-Mil issue - this attitude is in other theologies as well.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(10) Another major error that Premil makes is that it constantly presents the Old Testament as if the new covenant has never arrived.

Not my theology.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Seven days of creation and Prophecy discussion

I believe there will be a thousand year reign of Christ because God is currently creating the new heavens and the new earth for us. When He is done, He will enter into His rest, and this will last for a thousand years because to the Lord a thousand years is actually like a day - that day, type thing.

Even if God does things differently, not a problem - it's not for us to know the times He has set in His power anyway.

So, we are in the millennium now? We are actually now in 2020 now.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(11) Because Premil lacks any corroboration in Scripture for a future 1,000 years’ age after the second coming, it invents 2 “last days” periods to allow Premil to fit. Mark 1 now, and Mark 2 after the second coming. Premils also invent 2 new heavens and new earths. Mark 1 they relate to their alleged future millennium and is sin-cursed and corrupt. Mark 2 is perfect and incorrupt and they equate it to 1,000 years+ after this.

I don't invent days, I just use the template outlined in Genesis.

I also read Mark chapter 1 and Mark chapter 2 but don't understand how it applies to this concept.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I find it helpful to apply the principles in scripture.

For example, in this passage it speaks of a chain that can bind Satan for 1000 years. So in prayer asking God about this chain and about binding wickedness, bore good fruit in spiritual warfare.

I don't believe in restoration of animal sacrifices, I tend to be of the "you're breaking a dog's neck" school of thought regarding that.

So you see how Christ spiritually bound Satan 2000 years ago?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So, we are in the millennium now? We are actually now in 2020 now.

The Millennium is when it happens. I don't care when it is, it's not my job to know. (Acts 1:7)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So you see how Christ spiritually bound Satan 2000 years ago?

But the nations are still deceived, so Satan is not bound currently.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(12) Premillennialists cannot even agree on the timing

That's because God is the time keeper, so we cannot know (Acts 1:7)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(13) Premil invents a 3rd group of humans that Scripture knows nothing of, that are too wicked to be raptured at the second coming and too righteous to be destroyed. It is these mortals, they argue, who populate their alleged future millennial earth. The reality is there are only two peoples in this world – the righteous and the unrighteous; those "in Adam" (the 1st birth) and those "in Christ" (2nd birth).

Yeah, I don't believe that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(14) Premil has an unhealthy obsessive focus on natural Israel, wrongly believing her to be God’s chosen people today under the new covenant.

Yeah, I don't believe that.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(15) General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the living and the dead,” “every man,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men every where,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. This shows that the Premil’s boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.

I don't claim to be a literalist.

The above paragraph doesn't make sense to me, kindly elaborate the point so I can agree/disagree.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(16) Premil takes common linguistic terms that are easily understood by the unindoctrinated observer in any language to mean the opposite to what they actually say. For example, Premil does not believe that "first" means first and "last" means last. The English words “first” and “last” are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. The word protos means first, as in the foremost in time, place, order or importance. The word eschatos on the other hand means end, last, farthest and final. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other.

Hmm, I can't remember any posts where I've done that. Must be a generation gap type thing.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(17) Premil does not believe that “the end” refers to the end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It is the termination point of a thing. When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then most sane theologians agree it is talking about “the beginning” of creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason I believe is because it cuts across a lot of their end-time theology they have been taught. But I believe we should treat both sayings similarly. Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

Hmmm I'm brimming with questions about this one.

End of which age though?

 

[Jipsah]

You forget that God`s measurements are by the lunar months - 30 days. You are referring to the solar calendar.

Sheer nonsense. God established the solar year in His design of ther solar system.

 

[DavidPT]

Fourthly, martyrdom was/is never limited to 42 months at the end as you claim. Every informed Bible student knows that. Martyrdom has occurred since the stoning of Stephen. Millions have been butchered by the beast system for their faith in the OT and NT, in the early Church, under the jackboot of Romanism, and right up until today. To limit martyrdom to 42 months at the end exposes your theological bias, your ignorance of history and your lack of objectivity.

You obviously are still not even grasping what I'm arguing, and you likely never will until you go through everything I proposed and show why and how those are the wrong conclusions to arrive at. I never once claimed martyrdom is limited to just 42 months. But I am claiming, in regards to worshiping the beast, and it's image, that martyrdom in particular is clearly limited to only 42 months.

A cpl of things to note. In Revelation 9 something is seen coming out of the pit, except it's not satan, it's locusts. According to Revelation 17, the beast that was, and is not, shall ascend out of the pit and go into perdition, and this is not satan either. This is the same beast, along with the false prophet, who both get cast alive into the LOF at the 2nd coming, and neither of these are satan. Therefore, there is not one single verse in Revelation before chapter 20, showing satan being released from the pit.

As to this 42 months in particular, it involves worshiping the beast's image, which is not even possible that there can even be an image to worship until Revelation 13:14-15 is fulfilled first.

As to the beast that was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the pit, do you propose that the 42 month reign is taking place during the time when it is not, IOW, when it's in the pit?

and I saw the souls of them----and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands(Revelation 20:4)---these have already been martyred before satan is even loosed, and they have been martyred by way of the beast that was, and is not, and will ascend out of the pit. Everyone should know this.

When do you propose they are martyred? A) When the beast was(before it's in the pit)? B)When the beast is not(when it's in the pit)? C) Or when the beast ascends from the pit(no longer in the pit)?

And since C) can't parallel the thousand years nor be after the thousand years, that means it fits before the thousand years, this being when the beast ascends out of the pit. The beast is not satan, therefore the beast can certainly ascend out of the pit before the thousand years, and satan can ascend out of the pit after the thousand years, without it contradicting anything.

BTW, this only works with Premil not Amil. Amil can't even work unless C) is meaning after the thousand years, and that the beast that was, and is not, is meaning satan.

Revelation 20:10 already proves the beast is not meaning satan---And the devil(not the beast nor false prophet, thus 1 entity) that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast(not the devil nor false prophet, thus another entity) and the false prophet(not the devil nor the beast, thus a third entity) are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[Timtofly]

No, it was not! Only the elect remnant within natural Israel was looking for that city. The rest were blinded and were of the devil.

Natural Israel still has most of the OT. Perhaps you could ask some of them?

 

[Timtofly]

So, we are in the millennium now? We are actually now in 2020 now.

Was Jesus born in the church age?

 

[sovereigngrace]

You obviously are still not even grasping what I'm arguing, and you likely never will until you go through everything I proposed and show why and how those are the wrong conclusions to arrive at. I never once claimed martyrdom is limited to just 42 months. But I am claiming, in regards to worshiping the beast, and it's image, that martyrdom in particular is clearly limited to only 42 months.

A cpl of things to note. In Revelation 9 something is seen coming out of the pit, except it's not satan, it's locusts. According to Revelation 17, the beast that was, and is not, shall ascend out of the pit and go into perdition, and this is not satan either. This is the same beast, along with the false prophet, who both get cast alive into the LOF at the 2nd coming, and neither of these are satan. Therefore, there is not one single verse in Revelation before chapter 20, showing satan being released from the pit.

As to this 42 months in particular, it involves worshiping the beast's image, which is not even possible that there can even be an image to worship until Revelation 13:14-15 is fulfilled first.

As to the beast that was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the pit, do you propose that the 42 month reign is taking place during the time when it is not, IOW, when it's in the pit?

and I saw the souls of them----and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands(Revelation 20:4)---these have already been martyred before satan is even loosed, and they have been martyred by way of the beast that was, and is not, and will ascend out of the pit. Everyone should know this.

When do you propose they are martyred? A) When the beast was(before it's in the pit)? B)When the beast is not(when it's in the pit)? C) Or when the beast ascends from the pit(no longer in the pit)?

And since C) can't parallel the thousand years nor be after the thousand years, that means it fits before the thousand years, this being when the beast ascends out of the pit. The beast is not satan, therefore the beast can certainly ascend out of the pit before the thousand years, and satan can ascend out of the pit after the thousand years, without it contradicting anything.

BTW, this only works with Premil not Amil. Amil can't even work unless C) is meaning after the thousand years, and that the beast that was, and is not, is meaning satan.

Revelation 20:10 already proves the beast is not meaning satan---And the devil(not the beast nor false prophet, thus 1 entity) that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast(not the devil nor false prophet, thus another entity) and the false prophet(not the devil nor the beast, thus a third entity) are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That is all mere opinion, but has no basis in Scripture. The beast and his evil have been around even though he and Satan have been put into a spiritual prison since the First Advent.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hmmm I'm brimming with questions about this one.

End of which age though?

I am seeing no evidence here just personal opinion. You clearly have no rebuttal to what I have said. Please address!

BTW, where is your corroboration for your opinion of Rev 20 for all the main Premil tenets? You have not even addressed that. Everything else is irrelevant because we are talking about private interpretation if you have nothing.