[moved] Where does God's Wrath begin in Revelation?

[iamlamad]

"Antichrist" doesn't appear in Revelation but most people believe he is in that book by another name.

Here is why some believe the false prophet is the little horn mentioned by Daniel:

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.
Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.


Same ten horned beast in both books and it is always a large Empire composed of Kings and kingdoms with 1 singular person ruling over it all and that person is the same person in both books called the little horn and false prophet.


Daniel - ten horned beast arises, little horn
Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet

Same person, two names/titles.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

These horns are little horns of a young lamb which is a direct reference to the little horn Daniel wrote of who is also the one we know as the Antichrist.

G721
????´??
arnion
ar-nee'-on
Diminutive from G704; a lambkin: - lamb.
Total KJV occurrences: 30

The little horn of Daniel is commonly believed to be the AC John wrote about and in Revelation there is a person with two little horns who appears after the ten horned beast just as the little horn in Daniel appears after the ten horned beast. Clearly the same person is in mind here.

some believe the false prophet is the little horn Sorry, I don't believe it. I don't believe their reasoning is valid.

 

[BABerean2]

His "second" coming or next coming will be only to the air FOR His bride - before the 70th week. His final coming (3rd coming) will be just AFTER the wedding feast and AFTER the 70th week.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about seven years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
(The New Covenant understanding of the chapter.)

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[iamlamad]

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about seven years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

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It seems, when we see letters before of after a name, we have a good guess they will be teaching error. It is certainly the case here.

 

[BABerean2]

It seems, when we see letters before of after a name, we have a good guess they will be teaching error. It is certainly the case here.

I would say Matthew, and Paul's letters to the Romans, and Galatians, would not be teaching error. Do you have any comments about what these scriptures say?


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[iamlamad]

I would say Matthew, and Paul's letters to the Romans, and Galatians, would not be teaching error. Do you have any comments about what these scriptures say?
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Peter had it right: some "ignorant and unstable people, distort [Paul's letters] as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Paul's gospel is very clear: He preached the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord as his gospel: that it is by and through the death and resurrection of our Lord that we can be saved. Paul is also very clear on the timing of the rapture: JUST before wrath. Therefore, figure out when wrath begins, and you will have the correct timing of the rapture. HINT: look at the 6th seal.

 

[Zao is life]

They may have been out in the open until the following occurred...

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Can you imagine an event that moves every mountain, and island out of its place?

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I never read this thread until I posted another one about the same thing. I wasted my time posting the other thread. Yourself, DavidPT and EWQ1938 have explained it all well.

 

[Timtofly]

Please explain.

Revelation 6:14
"The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place."

All the continents brought back as one, and mountains moved like furniture. No barrier between the rest of the world and Jerusalem. That is why everyone wants to hide in the caves. They understand God means business. They then soon forget.

 

[Timtofly]

How did you come up with that? It will probably be very close to 2000 years.

My apologies. I thought there was a mention of Daniel's times, times and a half of times. May have been in the other posters post.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, it is written that the whole world wonders and the Beast and worships him. But make no mistake, it is the false prophet performing false miracles that CAUSE the world to believe the great lie: that the first beast really IS God.

Did you ever notice that the False Prophet can only perform his false miracles IN THE SIGHT of the first Beast? Did you ever wonder WHY?

Satan and the false prophet have been friends for hundreds of years. Here on earth and in sheol.

 

[Timtofly]

He will certainly have the same spirit as the "Antichrist," but it is the first beast that will come "in the place of" Christ and pretend he is GOD.

The first beast is the false prophet. He will pretend to have lived a very long time. The second beast is Satan. He has been behind the scenes for 2500 years, while still going back and forth as the Adversary before God. Of course, the church playing the harlot, made things easier. He just had to martyr the church one by one.

 

[Timtofly]

I only pointed out that it was the first Beast - whom many call the Antichrist and whom I call the Antichrist Beast - is the beast who came from the water. It was the second beast - the False Prophet - who rose up from the earth.

The purpose of the False Prophet is to persuade the world of the great lie: that the first beast really is the God of Israel. I don't think Daniel mentioned him at all. Of course the Little Horn in Daniel 7 (NOT in Daniel 8) is the first Beast of Rev. 13.

There is only one human involved. The same human as in the Greek king of Daniel 11.

Then Satan and the image which will be both man and Messiah. The number of the mark is the name of a man. Adam is that name and the number is representative of the fall and the restoration of that fall in this new form of mankind. That is what God allows Satan to do in Revelation 13.

 

[Timtofly]

The 7th Trumpet is to last 8 days. Sunday to Sunday. It is the Second Coming week.
Please tell us HOW you come to such a conclusion.

Not even an angel has that much air in his or hers lungs! A trumpet blast here is only a marker to start some event or events.

For the 7th trumpet, it marks the midpoint of the week, marks the time the "closing" happens in the throne room of heaven: authority and dominion over the world is taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ; and finally marks the moment the war will begin in the heavens: Satan to be cast down.

It is the Second Coming week. What do you mean here?

If the week remained whole, there would not be Satan's 3.5 years. There would be no 7 vials. Chapter 14 would be the end. Sorry, but the week (of years) WILL remain whole: 1260 days in the first half, 1260 days in the second half. This is written in stone, so to speak, and will most certainly come to pass. (the second half in Revelation goes from the 7th trumpet to the 7th vial.)

The Second Coming is the wedding feast. Not really. His "second" coming or next coming will be only to the air FOR His bride - before the 70th week. His final coming (3rd coming) will be just AFTER the wedding feast and AFTER the 70th week.

Angels don't need air. Revelation 10:7
"on the contrary, in the days of the sound from the seventh angel when he sounds his shofar, the hidden plan of God will be brought to completion, the Good News as he proclaimed it to his servants the prophets.”

The Second Coming week is the end of the first 3 types of harvest.
The church, rapture. Opening the seals.
The sheep and goats, Trumpets.
The wheat and tares, Thunders.

It is a celebration, the Wedding in preparation of the next 1000 years. It is a week of days. The week that gets the "sacrifice" interrupted.

The hidden plan that Adam's punishment is over. The completion of the restored church. Those descendants of Adam who trusted God even with a sinful nature telling them not to trust God. The whole truth and reason for creation itself. The GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL!!!

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation 6:14
"The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place."

All the continents brought back as one, and mountains moved like furniture. No barrier between the rest of the world and Jerusalem. That is why everyone wants to hide in the caves. They understand God means business. They then soon forget.

Thanks, but I think you are reading into that verse what is not there. Did you know that the great earthquake that hit Japan a few years back that caused that terrible tsunami - moved every mountain? In fact, it moved the axis of the earth a few inches, and moved the island of Japan by maybe 8 feet. But changing earth's axis, that quake moved every mountain out of its place.

They hide in caves because they saw the signs of the Day of the Lord and knew the DAY had come. They were not that scared of the quake: they were scared of GOD! It is myth that "no barrier between" Jerusalem and the rest of the world. Sorry, but the oceans will remain.

 

[iamlamad]

Angels don't need air. Revelation 10:7
"on the contrary, in the days of the sound from the seventh angel when he sounds his shofar, the hidden plan of God will be brought to completion, the Good News as he proclaimed it to his servants the prophets.”

The Second Coming week is the end of the first 3 types of harvest.
The church, rapture. Opening the seals.
The sheep and goats, Trumpets.
The wheat and tares, Thunders.

It is a celebration, the Wedding in preparation of the next 1000 years. It is a week of days. The week that gets the "sacrifice" interrupted.

The hidden plan that Adam's punishment is over. The completion of the restored church. Those descendants of Adam who trusted God even with a sinful nature telling them not to trust God. The whole truth and reason for creation itself. The GOOD NEWS of the GOSPEL!!!

Angels might not "need" air, but it will take air to sound a trumpet.

You are mistaken. The church has been waiting at the 5th seal martyrs of the church age since the beginning of the church age. We are all waiting on the rapture that will trigger the 6th seal and the start of judgment.
Then the 7th seal and the opening of the 70th week.
Then the trumpets: 1-6
Then the thunders
Then the 7th trumpet and midpoint of the week

Who knows where the parable of the tares plays out in Revelation. A guess might be the 6th trumpet killing of 1/3 of the population. Do you know?

The marriage and supper come after the entire Week has finished. God will wait for all the "guests" for the marriage. (Old Testament saints)

 

[iamlamad]

There is only one human involved. The same human as in the Greek king of Daniel 11.

Then Satan and the image which will be both man and Messiah. The number of the mark is the name of a man. Adam is that name and the number is representative of the fall and the restoration of that fall in this new form of mankind. That is what God allows Satan to do in Revelation 13.

Sorry, wrong again. There are TWO human's involved:

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Satan and the image which will be both man and Messiah Myth: Satan is the devil and the image will be man made. And the Messiah came 2000 years ago and went back to heaven.
Adam is that name Just a guess.
the number is representative of the fall and the restoration of that fall in this new form of mankind. Another guess.

 

[Timtofly]

Thanks, but I think you are reading into that verse what is not there. Did you know that the great earthquake that hit Japan a few years back that caused that terrible tsunami - moved every mountain? In fact, it moved the axis of the earth a few inches, and moved the island of Japan by maybe 8 feet. But changing earth's axis, that quake moved every mountain out of its place.

They hide in caves because they saw the signs of the Day of the Lord and knew the DAY had come. They were not that scared of the quake: they were scared of GOD! It is myth that "no barrier between" Jerusalem and the rest of the world. Sorry, but the oceans will remain.

I will be prepared when it happens.
You can figure out what happens at that time, I guess.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry, wrong again. There are TWO human's involved:

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Satan and the image which will be both man and Messiah Myth: Satan is the devil and the image will be man made. And the Messiah came 2000 years ago and went back to heaven.
Adam is that name Just a guess.
the number is representative of the fall and the restoration of that fall in this new form of mankind. Another guess.

So a human actually comes out of sheol?

 

[iamlamad]

The first beast is the false prophet. He will pretend to have lived a very long time. The second beast is Satan. He has been behind the scenes for 2500 years, while still going back and forth as the Adversary before God. Of course, the church playing the harlot, made things easier. He just had to martyr the church one by one.

Why is it you get everything backwards? The first beast is from the water and is what 99.99% of the church world calls the Antichrist. He is the main figure in the last half of the week, with the false prophet only his assistant.

First, ask: which beast was named "beast" first in Revelation? He will be the primary "beast."

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. [Satan is not "the beast," or the FP.]

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

WHICH "the beast?" Of course the primary or first beast John mentioned.

Who do they worship? "The Beast." (the first)
Who wins wars? "the Beast." (the first)
Who was given 42 months? "The Beast." (The first)
Who makes war with the saints? "The Beast." (The first)

Who is the second beast? "another beast"
Who exercises all the power of the first beast? "Another beast."
Who worships who? the "another beast" causes the world to worship the first beast.
Who has to be in the sight of the first beast to do miracles? "another beast."

When John only writes "the Beast" it ALWAYS refers to the first beast. The False prophet is the SECOND beast.

 

[iamlamad]

Satan and the false prophet have been friends for hundreds of years. Here on earth and in sheol.

Sorry, the FP is a man and does not live for hundreds of years. Ever heard of Maitreya? He may well be the FP to come. Only a guess.

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation 6:14
"The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place."

All the continents brought back as one, and mountains moved like furniture. No barrier between the rest of the world and Jerusalem. That is why everyone wants to hide in the caves. They understand God means business. They then soon forget.

I disagree with everything here.