[moved] Where does God's Wrath begin in Revelation?

[5thKingdom]

And the Day of the Lord begins, like a thief in the night. .

1Th 5:4-5
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day
should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light,
and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

 

[fwGod]

All I asked was if you are dispensationalist or not ? I would like a yes or no. If you are, then you can respond to some of other posters (not me) who have a big battle going on in this forum with dispenationalism. I don't want to get involved that battle, nor dragged into it.

I am a futurist, but not a dispensationalist. So I should not have to defend it. But by the same token, I have not taken up any war on dispensationalists.

I was never a part of that upbringing nor ever subscribed to the approach. It is not part of my thinking.

I guess it bothers you that I have much the same position as you. That would not indicate getting involved in a battle.

But if you don't want to discuss anything about your position then just quit responding to my posts because as long as you respond I feel obligated to respond back.

 

[5thKingdom]

In Revelation, in one place. In Revelation 13:1, beast has the dual representation of being a kingdom, and a king..

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

WHERE do you see "dual representations"???

A beast having seven heads and ten horns
and upon HIS horns ten crowns
and upon HIS heads the name of blashpemy

Where is the Kingdom and the King?

It shows the BEAST as the Anti-Christ (HIS)

/

 

[5thKingdom]

I said:
The Abomination of Desolation "standing" (ruling) in the
"Holy Place" (Body of Believers of the Fourth Kingdom) is
the same as the "Man of Sin" who is "sitting" (ruling) in the
"Temple" (Body of Believers of the Fourth Kingdom) so the
answer of WHERE this occurs is in the "Body of Believers"
during the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

It is a preposterous claim that the beast is the 100's of millions of people of the world who will worship the beast (themselves?), and be there on the temple mount - to be cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's return..

Tell me Douggg...
What makes you think the "ten virgins" went forth into
the world?

What makes you think the CONTEXT of the "ten virgins"
is more than the church?

.

 

[iamlamad]

I said:
The Abomination of Desolation "standing" (ruling) in the
"Holy Place" (Body of Believers of the Fourth Kingdom) is
the same as the "Man of Sin" who is "sitting" (ruling) in the
"Temple" (Body of Believers of the Fourth Kingdom) so the
answer of WHERE this occurs is in the "Body of Believers"
during the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]





Tell me Douggg...
What makes you think the "ten virgins" went forth into
the world?

What makes you think the CONTEXT of the "ten virgins"
is more than the church?

.

Oh my! One more in a long line of those who thinks they know, when in fact, they don't.

 

[iamlamad]

The very end of the tribulation period is God's wrath poured out on the earth.

.

How strange when the Day of His wrath begins in chapter 6, before any part of the 70th week (chapters 8-16). I will go with John here.

 

[iamlamad]

Sorry but I was responding to another poster.

And, as an aside... I doubt that Satan has a hand in anything that God is doing or even knows what God is going to do next...

Usually true; but in this case, he was the God of this world that God wanted to send out His church into. God always does things legally. It was Satan's world.

 

[Timtofly]

Unfortunately, there are some who get confused about the 7th trumpet, and think this is before the 42 month reign of the beast, rather than after it, the fact Revelation 13 is after chapter 11 rather than before it, maybe being one reason why, among others.

The 7th Trumpet is not just a sound. It is a days long event. It is an angel who starts blowing the Trumpet in Celebration of the whole week of the Second Coming. All 8 days from Sunday morning to Sunday evening.

The 3.5 year time frame (of Satan) happens on Wednesday (if it happens). So this mighty Angel will not stop blowing even during the 3.5 years. Those extra 1260 days are still included in one long week.

The vials are poured out at the end. They are not in the 3.5 years. They are the second half of the week. Wednesday evening picks back up while the bodies of the 2 witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem. Jerusalem was the city were the festivities began. So, while the 2 witnesses remain unmoved, the seven vials are poured out, and the 7th Trumpet is still blowing. On Sunday while the 2 witnesses arise and ascend to heaven, God Himself gathers all humanity left into the plain of Megiddo. Then in the last few hours all humanity is harvested. The false prophet and the image are thrown into the lake of fire. The rest go to sheol, until the end of the 1000 years. Sunday by end of day, those beheaded or killed during the last 5+ years are resurrected. Monday starts the 1000 year reign. Because of the elects sake, Matthew 24:22 it is a shortened time frame. It does not go on for years and years.

The Second Coming is one week. Satan could get 3.5 years in the middle on Wednesday. The two witnesses lay dead 3.5 days. Starting on a Wednesday afternoon to Sunday early in the morning. That is the extent of the 7th Trumpet and the 7 vials. God's wrath. The few years leading up to the Second Coming are the 6 Trumpets and the 7 Thunderings. No one includes them, but they will happen after the 6th Trumpet. The church age cannot go past 1990 years from 30AD. Any human who does actual work (of any kind) after the start of the Second Coming, will be cursed with the mark 666. The business about economy is not the money. It is the labor. One cannot buy, sale or trade, without work. That was Adam's physical punishment.

By the sweat of the brow. By the mark 666 on the brow. Adam's punishment is over. Now; we are programmed by God to work. Now is over. God is telling us work and labor are over. What has stopped work and labor? God has. The 4th seal happened because the first 3 did not stop labor. Labor keeps going, because humans do not want to stop. The 6th seal happens and God rearranges the earth. Yet humans will soon forget God and attempt to keep working. God will send judgment after judgment and humans will still want to keep working.

Today we face a choice. Work of God, eternal rewards. Work of human carnal flesh, temporal pleasure while God keeps forcing humans to stop working. Yet some want to endure to the end. Endure by winning lost souls, or endure for sinful pleasure and what money can buy? By the middle of the Second Coming it will be either work, or get your head chopped off to prevent the body from working. Those with an expiration date of 666, will be rotten as if their names were never in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[5thKingdom]

Oh my! One more in a long line of those who thinks they know, when in fact, they don't.

Child... why don't you provide some SCRIPTURE instead of
pretending your "feelings" prove something?

Can you do that?
name the chapter and verse that refutes my words.
Otherwise you are only embarrassing yourself.

.

 

[Timtofly]

... actually happens in Revelation.

If you go to 1Thessalonians5, it is when the saying "Peace and Safety" is stopped. And the Day of the Lord begins, like a thief in the night. Which the implication is the beginning of the Day of the Lord is when God's wrath begins because of what it says in 1Thessalonians5:

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The Day of the Lord is the whole 1000 year period. The week of the Second Coming is the week leading up to the Day of the Lord. There are 3.5 years before the Second Coming when the Seals, Trumpets and Thunders gather the whole world in a harvest. It is Jacob trouble, birth pains. All humanity will be harvested. Rapture, death, separation of the sheep from the goats. Then the fire of the tares, and the wheat harvest. Jesus had 3.5 years and then was "cut off". The Trumpets and Thunderings are the last years of Jesus' earthly ministry. It is preparation of the actual Day of the Lord. The last 1000 years in this created reality.

 

[5thKingdom]

Oh my! One more in a long line of those who thinks they know, when in fact, they don't.

I will tell you what child..
I will post a new thread on Daniel's Abomination
and then you will have a chance to offer SCRIPTURE
(instead of your "feelings") to refute what I say...

Is that fair enough?

BTW... I just posted a new thread on the "Final Harvest".
Maybe you can find some SCRIPTURE to refute something
on that thread... I noticed earlier today that you were left
speechless. Come-on... impress us with your Biblical
knowledge on the Final Harvest.

Instead... read the thread and LEARN SOMETHING NEW

.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

The Day of the Lord is the whole 1000 year period. The week of the Second Coming is the week leading up to the Day of the Lord. There are 3.5 years before the Second Coming when the Seals, Trumpets and Thunders gather the whole world in a harvest. It is Jacob trouble, birth pains. All humanity will be harvested. Rapture, death, separation of the sheep from the goats. Then the fire of the tares, and the wheat harvest. Jesus had 3.5 years and then was "cut off". The Trumpets and Thunderings are the last years of Jesus' earthly ministry. It is preparation of the actual Day of the Lord. The last 1000 years in this created reality.

When the Bible talks about 3.5 "times" and 3.5 "days" and
3.5 years (42 months) and 3.5 "watches of the night"...
please tell me WHY in the world you think the 3.5 "years"
is a literal time period?

Do you just IGNORE the other 3.5 periods?
Is THAT how you harmonize Scripture?

.

 

[5thKingdom]

How strange when the Day of His wrath begins in chapter 6, before any part of the 70th week (chapters 8-16). I will go with John here.

What is strange is that ANYBODY would think that
Revelations is written in chronological order.

The Beast is killed in chapter 6 and chapter 11
and chapter 18 and chapter 19... WHY in the world
would you EVER think Revelations is chronological?

Seriously... I really want to know.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

As no one has yet showed me that anyone other than the 2 Witnesses go to heaven;

Since the BIBLE says the 2 Witnesses are the two "olive trees"
and the two "candlesticks"... why in the world do you think
they represent two individuals?


Rev 11:4
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks
standing before the God of the earth.


Please have the decency to RESPOND and do not run away and hide
every time you are corrected from SCRIPTURE.
.

 

[5thKingdom]

The False Prophet is not himself a King. He is a "false" prophet who will claim to be Elijah, the prophet..

I have heard a lot of "private interpretations" in my time...
please tell me WHY you think the False Prophet of Revelations
is NOT the same man as the "Little Horn" of Daniel 7 and WHY
you think he will claim to be Elijah?

Do you have any SCRIPTURE to support those claims...
or are they just from your imagination?

.

 

[JacksBratt]

Usually true; but in this case, he was the God of this world that God wanted to send out His church into. God always does things legally. It was Satan's world.

I agree, this is Satan's world.. But... Satan has no idea of certain things... like that Crucifying Christ saved the world.. or Satan would not have put Judas up to the betrayal...

Or the time of Christ's return... Or, well, a lot of things that God knows but Satan is ignorant of.


For Satan.. he is much more intelligent than us and knows way more than we do.. But God... created him and he is just that... a created being. .

 

[BABerean2]

How strange when the Day of His wrath begins in chapter 6, before any part of the 70th week (chapters 8-16). I will go with John here.

How strange that we also find signs in the sun, moon, and stars, in Revelation chapter 6, just as they are found in the Olivet Discourse at the Second Coming of Christ.

I will also go with John there.


How strange that you can ignore Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which reveal at time period of about seven years when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

I will go with Matthew, and Paul, who reveal the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

It is not that they have "no" purpose. I only state that their MAIN purpose is the prevent the book from being opened to get Satan kicked off his throne UNLESS or until someone can be found worthy to take the book and open the seals.

Do you not see that the devil is involved in some of the seals that is sealing that book? I am convinced that the "book" is the lease document to earth. Satan usurped Adam's lease and took Adam's great authority and dominion. So God was on the outside looking in, so to speak. Satan because the "god" of this world, and has held that position since Adam. Therefore I think Satan certainly had something to do with the seals.

I see Satan's hand in getting this book sealed so that only someone who could rise from the dead to become the redeemer would be worthy. I am convinced That Satan was SURE no man would ever be able to escape from hell!

God wanted to send out the church (seal 1). Satan OF COURSE would not want that. I can guess He said, "if you send out the church, I get the right to STOP the church (or the advance of the gospel) and cause martyrs. GOd then might have said, "You can use wars, famines, pestilences, and wild beasts, but you are limited to only 1/4 of the earth."

God's goal will be to get the book opened:
5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book...
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book,

The seals, it seems, were there so that NO ONE - not even God himself - could open the seals: ONLY someone who could prevail over death under or by His own power. Did you notice, once a seal is opened, it is never mentioned again?

OF COURSE God wanted to send out the church to make disciples of all nations. But God did not want wars. It is Satan who starts wars. God is not a murderer. It is Satan to does pestilences. It goes without saying, God does not want martyrs. But Satan is the god of this world.

You have an amazing imagination...
saying not even God could open the book and
pretending the Satan could frustrate God.
Just amazing.

.

 

[BABerean2]

Who's wrath is poured out with the seven seals, seven trumpets and the seven bowls?

Do you think the seven seals will be opened in the future?


Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

The 7th Trumpet is not just a sound. It is a days long event.

WRONG...
The Seventh Trumpet is the SAME as the Third Woe and the
duration of both is ETERNAL. The people who are cast into
the Lake of Fire during the Third Woe suffer for ETERNITY...

But, I am interested... WHY in the world (by that I mean what
SCRIPTURE teaches) do you think the Third Woe is 24 hours?

Please have the decency to RESPOND and do not run and hide
when corrected from the Bible. Thank you.

.