Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[cakeandclouds]

their whole concept has been marxism in the guise of helping, lots of black people don't support this group---they've given million of dollars to the dnc from their donations...

 

[Ana the Ist]

How many complaints of excessive force did he have?

How many were valid?

My but aren't we blasé about the government killing citizens.

If you haven't realized that you live in a country where cops are frequently required to use force to defend themselves or others against an armed citizenry...I don't know what to tell you.

Unless we disarm everyone....you're never going to see a time when cops are 100% in the right 100% of the time. That's not reality...that's not how it works.

I find nothing honest in claiming it is a handout.

Well let's see....can we agree that what they want is for this money to go to black communities? They aren't going to be happy if it goes to some lower middle class white suburb.

Is there a difference in accountability between a private citizen and an agent of the state?

They require different solutions...to be sure.

I do not find your claim of less police being a cause credible. It might be less of a deterrent but it is not a cause.

Why? Because criminals don't take advantage of a lack of police?

 

[jgarden]

The original concept of BLM is Marxism.

"We actually do have an ideological frame... we are trained Marxists." - Patrisse Cullors, Co-Founder, #BlackLivesMatter

How obliging of the police to take the lives of a number of young "black" males while under their supervision and all of it recorded on video by 3rd parties!

It was the actions of the police that provided BLM with all the platform necessary to convince the nation of the justice of their cause - as for Marxists, I suspect one could count the number embedded in the nationwide protests on one hand!

 

[TexFire316]

Check the agenda of each side and follow the money. Who benefits the most by plunging this country into chaos and discord and halt the economy of this country?
What if are all being played as pawns on a master chess board? Who benefits if this country collapses by civil war or crashed economy?

 

[jgarden]

Check the agenda of each side and follow the money. Who benefits the most by plunging this country into chaos and discord and halt the economy of this country?
What if are all being played as pawns on a master chess board? Who benefits if this country collapses by civil war or crashed economy?

There is no evidence that the protesters were paid - that would have required a nationwide conspiracy that would have been impossible to remain secret!

The protests were spontaneous and based on the deaths of unarmed young "black" males videoed by 3rd parties while under police supervision - if those incidents were staged it would have required the co-operation of the police which would have been against their own self-interests!

 

[Radagast]

The protests were spontaneous

Well, no.

The early looting may have been spontaneous, but the worldwide protests were arranged by local organisers.

 

[istodolez]

The original concept of BLM is Marxism.

"We actually do have an ideological frame... we are trained Marxists." - Patrisse Cullors, Co-Founder, #BlackLivesMatter

Yet they failed to put ANYTHING about Marxism in their statement of what they are about.

But, in the end, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm not a BLM-dues-paying member. The stated organizational goals seem quite reasonable but BLM didn't create the need for this topic. Nor are they the only voice.

We're talking racism in the US. If the only way to divert the topic away so we can enjoy another century or two of systemic racism and the most current method is to focus on one single group and then NOT on their actual STATED POSITIONS but rather on some of the personal beliefs of a few members, then, good job! Job well done! If MLK had lived long enough I've no doubt the exact same argument would have applied to him (he was working on the "poor people's campaign" toward the end of his life and of course the US government has expended a HUGE amount of money and effort to try to find flaws in his personality in order to undercut his message...AND THAT ONE WAS ONE OF PEACE!)

And with this approach we can guarantee that we'll be right back here with people marching in the streets a few years down the line and you folks will be once again clutching your pearls and trying to figure out what is WRONG with these protestors.

It's the cycle. This is America's original sin and we can't give it up.

 

[istodolez]

Well, no.

The early looting may have been spontaneous, but the worldwide protests were arranged by local organisers.

Did they set it up months in advance? Did they send out advance teams and make arrangements for when the police would gas them? Did they work out timing with the various members of the press for when the reporters would be shot and have an eye taken out or be put under arrest? Did they get a permit so that they could have the President's Atty General gas them and drive them out of the streets?

Just curious because that's a LOT of planning.

 

[Lost4words]

A worthy read:

Which Lives Matter?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Check the agenda of each side and follow the money. Who benefits the most by plunging this country into chaos and discord and halt the economy of this country?

The man who claimed four years ago that only he could save the country from its (real or imagined) threats.

What if are all being played as pawns on a master chess board? Who benefits if this country collapses by civil war or crashed economy?

Vladimir Putin... and whoever he's got in his pocket.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Rocks....no offense...but that's never going to account for the disparity in crime rates we're seeing.

You'd have a point if that was what I was claiming. But it's not. This appears to be becoming a theme...

Why would you expect that?

Because statistically, one should expect two groups of people who commit the same crime at the same rate to be arrested at the same rate. Realistically, I know that's not what happens, but that's the null hypothesis that I'm starting from. When differences are observed, then I can start looking at reasons why. In your example, I can think of a couple reasons why white women might be arrested at a lower rate than white men for the same crime, but until I know that they are, speculating on the possibilities is pointless.

Similarly, with blacks and whites, the null hypothesis is that if they use drugs at the same rate, they should be arrested for possession at the same rate. This is not the case, so we move into the realm of exploring why that might happen. I've proposed a couple of (non-mutually-exclusive) explanations for this, including income disparities and an institutional bias against black people by the police. So far, all you've done is dismiss my claims out of hand with proposing any alternate explanations for the differences. If you can't do that, then I'm done with this discussion.

We could easily find a group of white men and women who use marijuana at roughly the same amount.

Okay, you do that.

 

[Belk]

How many were valid?

How on earth would I know? But given the current circumstances it certainly seems likely some of them might of been. I believe that this is what BLM is trying to change. That officers who exhibit problematic tendencies are held accountable.

If you haven't realized that you live in a country where cops are frequently required to use force to defend themselves or others against an armed citizenry...I don't know what to tell you.

I disagree that it is required. It seems to me that other countries, even ones that are armed, manage this better then us.

Unless we disarm everyone....you're never going to see a time when cops are 100% in the right 100% of the time. That's not reality...that's not how it works.

We are never going to see a time when cops are 100% right no matter what. That is why I think we should rethink our strategy, not double down on one that fails so often.

Well let's see....can we agree that what they want is for this money to go to black communities? They aren't going to be happy if it goes to some lower middle class white suburb.

Let us say instead they want this money to go to troubled communities. Many of them with black majorities.

They require different solutions...to be sure.




Why? Because criminals don't take advantage of a lack of police?

Because a lack of police is not causing people to commit crimes. It might be failing to deter them but it is not a cause.

 

[rambot]

How many were valid?




If you haven't realized that you live in a country where cops are frequently required to use force to defend themselves or others against an armed citizenry...I don't know what to tell you.

?

What is so exceptional about America cops "are reqcircumstances whereuired" kill so many unarmed people?

You think there are no crazy people in other countries? You think no one else does drugs?

I'm not surprised you wouldn't know what to tell him.

 

[rambot]

The original concept of BLM is Marxism.

"We actually do have an ideological frame... we are trained Marxists." - Patrisse Cullors, Co-Founder, #BlackLivesMatter

I LOVE this video because
1. it's thrown up as a dog whistle.
2. There is 0 context
3. Nobody knows what that means.
4. It's demonstrably untrue or at least irrelevant to the movement.

 

[Chesterton]

In what way is black people wanting to attention to how they are treated by agents of the government Marxist? Please be specific.

That would be an excellent question to ask Ms. Cullors and her "trained Marxist" friends who started BLM. (And while you're at it, maybe ask them who trained them.) I'd also ask in what way things like toppling statues will help how blacks are treated by agents of the government. And ask why they're so concerned with "agents of the government" when they treat each other much, much worse.

We might get a clue straight from the horse's mouth - Marx himself in The Communist Manifesto:

In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary
movement against the existing social and political order of
things.
...
They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by
the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.​

 

[Chesterton]

If the only way to divert the topic away so we can enjoy another century or two of systemic racism and the most current method is to focus on one single group and then NOT on their actual STATED POSITIONS but rather on some of the personal beliefs of a few members, then, good job!

The only systemic racism in the U.S. is practiced against whites and Asians.

 

[Belk]

That would be an excellent question to ask Ms. Cullors and her "trained Marxist" friends who started BLM. (And while you're at it, maybe ask them who trained them.) I'd also ask in what way things like toppling statues will help how blacks are treated by agents of the government. And ask why they're so concerned with "agents of the government" when they treat each other much, much worse.

We might get a clue straight from the horse's mouth - Marx himself in The Communist Manifesto:

In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary
movement against the existing social and political order of
things.
...
They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by
the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions.​

So you have no idea how they are Marxist you just accept that they are? Is that correct?

 

[istodolez]

The only systemic racism in the U.S. is practiced against whites and Asians.

I'm a white guy and I can't tell you ANY case of racism against me. Even if I could find one it would waaaaay be balanced out by the amazing levels of privilege I have for just showing up white! It's even better when I'm white, cis-gendered and MALE! Seriously...I have NEVER been stopped by the police because I "fit the description" even though there are like 10X more white guys around than black guys. I have NEVER been stopped for driving my car through a specific neighborhood because I didn't "fit in there". And I've NEVER ONCE been thrown to the ground by the police because I happened to be standing by the street after going to Western Union.

To my knowledge I've never been followed around a store...maybe I was but I never noticed it. Olde midwesterners didn't tell me I smelled. I have lived in squalor but no one said it was because I was white and "couldn't keep things nice".

I have it really good as a white man. I can't imagine it being much easier for me. Maybe if I was wealthier but statistically I'm more wealthy than just about any black person you randomly choose. Regardless of their skill or ability.

I'm actually kind of embarrassed by how easy my life has been relatively speaking.

What about you? What's your story?

 

[Chesterton]

So you have no idea how they are Marxist you just accept that they are? Is that correct?

No, incorrect. As I said, like true Marxists they want to overthrow all existing social conditions, which is why they ask you to "Join the Movement to fight for Freedom, Liberation and Justice". Why are they talking about freedom and liberation? Why are they concerned with immigration? Why are they concerned with the transgender cause? Why do they want to abolish the family unit? Why do they want to "move beyond the narrow nationalism that is all too prevalent in Black communities." (You can get all this stuff and more from their various internet media.) What's all that got to do with police brutality?

 

[Chesterton]

What about you? What's your story?

Since you asked, I did share some stuff in a thread earlier this month. Just a few things, doesn't cover all my experiences:
Being Black In America: 'We Have A Place In This World Too'
Being Black In America: 'We Have A Place In This World Too'
Being Black In America: 'We Have A Place In This World Too'
Being Black In America: 'We Have A Place In This World Too'

Olde midwesterners didn't tell me I smelled.

A black lady once seemed to take great pride in trying to embarrass me by loudly saying "P.U." next to me in a convenience store full of people. I'd been sweating all day and was on my way home to shower, stopped in for a drink.