Something doesn't feel right about BLM

[istodolez]

Nice try if you can't prove me wrong then I guess my assertion stands.

That is not how logic works. Sorry.

I guess every white person killed by police was armed and dangerous then. Or perhaps the real reason is because the media doesn't care. It's not as exciting and divisive as black people being killed.

Your point, your burden of proof.

I will take it back if you prove me wrong.

I cannot make YOUR point for you if YOU don't care enough about your point to SUPPORT it. I'm really sorry, I wish logic was more forgiving but it isn't.

And if YOU don't care about your point, I don't care about your point!

 

[istodolez]

Just give us a post number, because I have been reading the thread and haven't seen one yet.

Tired of picking up the slack for folks. If you want something you have to work for it. Well, I should say I'VE had to work for what I've gotten. Perhaps everyone has simply given you everything you have.

 

[istodolez]

The actual grievances, and actual message has been hijacked by this extremist group that by their own words in the clip want to bring down capitalism.

Extremists exist. By this metric I am able to point to extremists on the Right to paint the entire Conservative movement. That's, of course, obviously irrational, but I can definitely join your game.

Ending capitalism by pulling down a statue that is a tribute to emancipating the slaves; does what exactly for black lives?

Who is proposing the end of capitalism? Extremists? Ohhhhh....

Sorry, this is lunacy in my point of view

Lunacy to listen to people who are aggrieved? Interesting. You won't make it far in life with that view.

. I no longer care what BLM's message is at this point.

Especially when you focus only on the EXTREMISTS. Let's try this. There are a lot of Neo-Nazis who like Trump and would call themselves Republicans/Conservatives. So by YOUR metric I can assume ALL REPUBLICANS/CONSERVATIVES are neo-nazis.

Do you see the point?

I would rather stand with blacks that are arguing for actual issues in their communities.

We had our chance for 400 years. MLK gave us a great path forward. We found it convenient to ignore his message and throw a few sops out by naming some streets after him. And systemic racism is still here with us.

You know why? Because we didn't listen. Or as you would call it "lunacy".

 

[LostMarbels]

Tired of picking up the slack for folks. If you want something you have to work for it. Well, I should say I'VE had to work for what I've gotten. Perhaps everyone has simply given you everything you have.

Interestingly out of 67 posts I do not seem to see where you mentioned any laws that specifically only target blacks and no other race.

 

[rjs330]

Tired of picking up the slack for folks. If you want something you have to work for it. Well, I should say I'VE had to work for what I've gotten. Perhaps everyone has simply given you everything you have.

Just give me one law. Just one off the top of your head. You don't have to look anything up.

 

[rjs330]

That is not how logic works. Sorry.



Your point, your burden of proof.



I cannot make YOUR point for you if YOU don't care enough about your point to SUPPORT it. I'm really sorry, I wish logic was more forgiving but it isn't.

And if YOU don't care about your point, I don't care about your point!

That's because you can't prove me wrong. And you know it. I tried to prove that the press and others cared about white people being killed as much as they cared about black people being killed. Guess what I found? Nada. They don't. Others don't either cause I couldn't actually find anything. So by virtue of being unable to locate anything my point is proven. Unless you can prove differently. My guess is you couldn't either.

 

[LostMarbels]

Especially when you focus only on the EXTREMISTS. Let's try this. There are a lot of Neo-Nazis who like Trump and would call themselves Republicans/Conservatives. So by YOUR metric I can assume ALL REPUBLICANS/CONSERVATIVES are neo-nazis.

Do you see the point?

Dems are bank rolling these people. And money donated to this faction are going to Biden campaign among other already elected Democratic officials.

How many times do I need to call BLM a separatist faction that hijacked, commandeered, seized, took over, taken possession of, snatched the actual movement and purpose of the movement before you get it?

They do not represent the lay person, average Joe citizenry. They represent the political interests of those democrats in office supporting them.

 

[rjs330]

Interestingly out of 67 posts I do not seem to see where you mentioned any laws that specifically only target blacks and no other race.

View attachment 279538

I made the assertion that black deaths are covered all the time in the media and on the web while white deaths are not in regards to the police. And he seems to disagree. But cannot prove that they are. It's kind of a tactic of his now.

 

[Speedwell]

Interestingly out of 67 posts I do not seem to see where you mentioned any laws that specifically only target blacks and no other race.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. --Anatole France

 

[LostMarbels]

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. --Anatole France

The point I was attempting to convey is I have pointed out laws that originated expressly to target former slaves, blacks. Gun legislation being one of them. Whites already had the "right" to own firearms. But what was to happen if we let a bunch of disgruntled former slaves own them? 'They might group up and come after me for how I treated them in the fields.'

It was just happenstance, not by design, that poor and less affluent working class whites were affected by gun legislation.

 

[jardiniere]

Why do people play games if they are honestly interested in solutions? Are we going to play the whole game that no one knows what I am referring to again? Like as if no one actually knows what I am saying?

LostMarbles, I don't watch mainstream media. So this is what I know. I know Candace Owens is a conservative who is black. I know there are black conservatives. I also know there are many, many, many "communities", some which are labeled "black". You asked me if "the black community" treats her a certain way... that is the same thought processes that presume all blacks think the same, as if there is only one black community.

But that's a false way to set up an argument, because the premise isn't true...there are many black communities, and some of them align with Candace, and some don't. To make a false premise that there is just a single "black community" is to make my argument for me, that you believe all blacks think alike, and that they can thusly be controlled easily. Yeah, that's just wrong.

Life is messy, and while we are social creatures, we are also individuals. To set up our thinking processes to be as accurate as possible when dealing with real life information, which is often spotty and missing data, we have to be flexible and hold several, seemingly opposite, viewpoints in mind when evaluating what we know. Nothing is ever all black or all white, not even colors.

 

[KCfromNC]

Apparently. Meth and opioids, too.

I'm not sure, typically when I see complaints about culture being responsible there's references to certain genres of music. So maybe country and/or western is an issue? Certainly it is a plague I'd like to see addressed.

 

[KCfromNC]

You have zero evidence that ID laws are racist.

The judge ruling on the subject disagrees - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9MDZdoTx7ZWR1plSHRPd08wbDQ/view

Faced with this record, we can only conclude that the North
Carolina General Assembly enacted the challenged provisions of
the law with discriminatory intent.​

 

[istodolez]

Just give me one law. Just one off the top of your head. You don't have to look anything up.

Voter ID laws
Mandatory Sentencing Laws
Laws allowing the district attorney to "charge stack" to force plea deals vs jury trials
The "War on Drugs"

But the game you folks want to play is "If they can only name x number of laws and it is < 1000000 then there is no such thing as systemic racism". Or some variant thereof.

The number of laws per se is NOT the topic of discussion.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So, again, why is the RATE higher in the black community than in the white community?

Nobody knows for sure. All anyone can do is speculate. There’s no single answer that will reflect the details each individual case. You can’t generalize something like this it’s impossible to give an accurate answer.

 

[istodolez]

Nobody knows for sure.
All anyone can do is speculate. There’s no single answer that will reflect the details each individual case. You can’t generalize something like this it’s impossible to give an accurate answer.

Well, perhaps if you are white you have the privilege to simply throw your hands up, call it an unsolvable mystery and ignore the problem. It's easy enough to do. But when black people tell you repeatedly and constantly that these things impact them (even well-to-do black people) then there's your clue!

But by all means, let's just throw up our hands, give up paying attention to it, assume it is a "mysterious unknown force" and watch our cities burn. That sounds like a solid plan. "Let them eat cake" if you will.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. And there's no better way to not know history or not see what is coming than to simply throw our hands up and ignore the problems.

 

[rturner76]

Please be respectful in this thread regardless of the opinions of others! Thank you!

I don't know about you, but for me, something about the Black Lives Matter movement just seems a little... off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about it doesn't seem right, and it's deeply unsettling to me that everyone has jumped on the bandwagon to declare that they stand with BLM.

Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with believing that "black lives matter" because, in actuality, they DO matter! Everyone's life matters, and I think that it's okay that we're focusing on black lives mattering too right now... BUT, at the same time, I think there's something very wrong going on when there are "white" people apologizing for being white, police officers being targeted with awful slogans that say that they're ALL terrible people, and people are using the name of BLM to violently riot in the streets.

But I think one of the things that unsettles me the most is the fact that just about every single company and celebrity, even overseas, have said that they are standing with BLM. Something about that tips me off as very blatant "virtue-signaling" and like they're using this to profit off of us. Maybe this last point has more to do with the companies and not the BLM movement itself, but it still makes me thing something really "not right" is going on here. In other words, I'm highly skeptical of everyone and everything right now.

Is it just me? Am I crazy in thinking that something might not be so right about the BLM movement?? Someone please let me know.

Here is the worst aspects IMO of "the BLM Movement" actually the worst two:

1) "BLM" is not owned by anyone and there is no national or really even local hierarchy. This allows any small or large group of people to co-opt the name and add it to their rage/desire to rampage. People want action right now when it's done relatively slowly through the courts and legislature.

2) Because there is no official leadership, especially nationally, there is no unified GOAL No specific law they are trying to get passed. Unless the goal is to raise awareness that black lives matter. So a BLM group in the south might try to tear down a monument. A BLM labeled group might lead a prayer vigil in any city. It's kind of more battle cry than an organization.

 

[DaisyDay]

George Floyd died of a heart attack not strangulation. This might interest you.

27 CR 20 12646 Complaint

George Floyd refused to enter the police vehicle claiming that he was claustrophobic and saying several times “I can’t breathe” while he was still standing in the door of the vehicle. Then when they tried to put him in the vehicle he dropped to the ground resisting the officers. So he didn’t appear to be claustrophobic when they removed him from the vehicle he was in when they found him and he was claiming he couldn’t breathe while he was still standing before ever going to the ground. The coroner specifically stated that he died of a heart attack not asphyxia or strangulation.

From your own source:

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (ME) conducted Mr. Floyd’s autopsy on May 26, 2020. The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings....The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.

For those who claim that numbers don't lie: Why Statistics Don’t Capture The Full Extent Of The Systemic Bias In Policing

 

[BNR32FAN]

While I understand your point, no one deserves to be held down begging for their lives like that. I will not give that a pass no matter what the circumstance of that case may be.

Floyd was saying I can’t breathe and saying mama while he was still standing. That sounds like hysterical delusion or possibly intoxication. You have to take into consideration how many times officers deal with this type of behavior. It’s something they deal with on almost a daily basis.

 

[BNR32FAN]

They have been discussed on this very thread at length.

But by all means please keep "demanding" them to be repeated for you.

Thanks for pointing that out and please forgive me for not noticing those discussions buried somewhere in the 400+ posts in this thread.