Resurrection Evidence

[the iconoclast]

Basically, I need you to finish the following sentence:


My belief in the resurrection in Jesus is based primarily on _____________________________.

Hey hey cherub

Well seeing that you do not want your position under attack, I guess I'll go on the defensive and you can go on the offensive.

Why not and let's see what you got.
- that rhymes.

My belief in the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ is based for the most part - mainly - on the Gospels.

I read Scripture and knew I found my sheppard. I accepted Christ as my saviour and was given the Holy Spirit.

Cheers my dear

 

[BigV]

My belief in the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ is based for the most part - mainly - on the Gospels.

I read Scripture and knew I found my sheppard. I accepted Christ as my saviour and was given the Holy Spirit.

Cheers my dear

Case closed then. I appreciate your honesty. Many other Christians claim there is historical evidence, but you have a belief. And I can respect that.

Cheers.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Case closed then. I appreciate your honesty. Many other Christians claim there is historical evidence, but you have a belief. And I can respect that.

Cheers.

Do you mean you respect the honesty or do you respect the beliefs? Being respectful of beliefs is not a given. Take, for instance, Islam.

 

[the iconoclast]

Case closed then. I appreciate your honesty. Many other Christians claim there is historical evidence, but you have a belief. And I can respect that.

Cheers.

Hey hey big v.

Wow thanks.

 

[BigV]

Do you mean you respect the honesty or do you respect the beliefs? Being respectful of beliefs is not a given. Take, for instance, Islam.

I'd say I respect his honesty and beliefs. I respect beliefs of the Islam as well. Not the militant kind, of course, but there are plenty of kind Muslims. Old Testament, in my view, can be very similar to a radical Islam, but most Jews and Christians don't follow those bits literally. Most Muslims, in my view, are peaceful and find ways to explain away the violent passages.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I'd say I respect his honesty and beliefs. I respect beliefs of the Islam as well. Not the militant kind, of course, but there are plenty of kind Muslims. Old Testament, in my view, can be very similar to a radical Islam, but most Jews and Christians don't follow those bits literally. Most Muslims, in my view, are peaceful and find ways to explain away the violent passages.

I'll quote @BigV but anyone can answer. What does it mean to respect a belief? To say it is good to have? That it is OK to have? Honor it?

To me, this feels like saying I respect a rock. When I respect the law, I obey it. I'm not obeying someone's beliefs. So what does it mean?

I'm OK with saying that I respect the rights of someone to hold beliefs (I won't require you to not believe them). I might respect someone as honest (that is, I'm glad you're honest) who says "I don't know; I just believe".

But respecting a belief?

 

[BigV]

But respecting a belief?

In my usage of the term, I meant that I'm okay with @the iconoclast having his belief. I disagree with it, but to each their own. If someone wants to believe in Santa Claus, I respect their belief also. In essence, I'm respecting their right to a belief no matter how irrational it is.

 

[Tinker Grey]

In my usage of the term, I meant that I'm okay with @the iconoclast having his belief. I disagree with it, but to each their own. If someone wants to believe in Santa Claus, I respect their belief also. In essence, I'm respecting their right to a belief no matter how irrational it is.

I can go with that. Your phrasing is conventional, so I can't fault your use. But, I find the coventional statement semantically thin.

Anyone else?

 

[Chesterton]

I can go with that. Your phrasing is conventional, so I can't fault your use. But, I find the coventional statement semantically thin.

Anyone else?

I haven't read this thread for almost half a year, but thought I'd chime in. I pulled out my trusty old dictionary (I always prefer old dictionaries) and found that, used as a verb, there are two things relevant, which are different:

a. to consider worthy of high regard; esteem
b. to refrain from interfering with

So I think one can do b. without doing a. And I think b. is very important in all cases, but whether you hold a belief in high regard would have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

 

[GenemZ]

Often times, debate will transpire between believers and non-believers. At the end of some of these discussions, the believer will stop the debate, and state 'all that matters is that Jesus died for us, etc..'

I now ask....

What exactly makes the evidence(s) for a claimed resurrection so dang compelling, as opposed to claims of other messiahs, god(s), other?

Because at the end of the day, Jesus either rose from the dead, or He didn't. Are we justified in believing He did?

Jesus said....

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them,
and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

Do you honestly think I was wanting to become a Christian? Quite frankly, with all the dumb idiots and kooks running around it was the last place I would want to be.

Yet? .... Here I am. Saved. And, knowing I am.

"Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were
called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not
many were influential; not many were of noble birth." 1 Cor 1:26​

God will save anyone who will believe. Its not a place for snobs.

grace and peace......

 

[Nihilist Virus]

I'd say I respect his honesty and beliefs. I respect beliefs of the Islam as well. Not the militant kind, of course, but there are plenty of kind Muslims. Old Testament, in my view, can be very similar to a radical Islam, but most Jews and Christians don't follow those bits literally. Most Muslims, in my view, are peaceful and find ways to explain away the violent passages.

It sounds like you're saying you respect the actions that result from beliefs, and not the beliefs themselves.

I'm glad you seem to be saying you don't respect all religious views, though. If you highlight the entire page of a book, you've highlighted nothing. Respecting all beliefs means you basically respect no beliefs. To respect something is to hold it in a special regard over other things. I don't hold religious beliefs in special regard. I think the idea of doing that is just silly. One's religious beliefs are barely colored by the individual. Nobody sat down and said, "You know, I've never been told this, but I bet there was a guy called Jesus Christ who died for my sins."

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I haven't read this thread for almost half a year, but thought I'd chime in. I pulled out my trusty old dictionary (I always prefer old dictionaries) and found that, used as a verb, there are two things relevant, which are different:

a. to consider worthy of high regard; esteem
b. to refrain from interfering with

So I think one can do b. without doing a. And I think b. is very important in all cases, but whether you hold a belief in high regard would have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.

I am not sold on non interference. I respect that someone has the right to hold a belief, but I do not respect all beliefs and actively act against some beliefs. If a person holds a belief that they can flap their arms and fly then just refraining from interfering may be detrimental to the person holding the belief. We are seeing this play out with the black lives matter movement. Just respecting someones racist belief and do not interfere is not enough, some beliefs need to be challenged and eradicated, like flying or racism.

 

[GenemZ]

I am not sold on non interference. I respect that someone has the right to hold a belief, but I do not respect all beliefs and actively act against some beliefs. If a person holds a belief that they can flap their arms and fly then just refraining from interfering may be detrimental to the person holding the belief. We are seeing this play out with the black lives matter movement. Just respecting someones racist belief and do not interfere is not enough, some beliefs need to be challenged and eradicated, like flying or racism.

The person who thinks he can fly by flapping his wings should be free to fly off a cliff if he so chooses. But, he should not be free to jump off a building with people down below walking on the sidewalk.

You have your own biases. Why not have society eradicate those who reject belief in God?
"Godly Lives Matter" will see to it.

You do not understand human nature. For only God can show you the roots of racism and its eradication. Man is fallen and sinful. Self deceiving many times.

Eliminating racism is not achieved through legislation and law enforcement. For those who are racists will continue to think racism when they are not allowed to act upon it. Its not eliminated that way.

In a way, your solution runs parallel to religious legalism. Only, you are using secular powers to achieve your goal.

Legislation can not transform men. It only puts them in a straight jacket. It can dumb them down over time.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

The person who thinks he can fly by flapping his wings should be free to fly off a cliff if he so chooses. But, he should not be free to jump off a building with people down below walking on the sidewalk.

Really? You would just let a person that believes they can fly kill themselves without trying to stop them? Convince them that they cannot fly?

You have your own biases. Why not have society eradicate those who reject belief in God?
"Godly Lives Matter" will see to it.

Do you believe racism is something that is good for society? Should we not try to convince people that racism is wrong?

You do not understand human nature. For only God can show you the roots of racism and its eradication. Man is fallen and sinful. Self deceiving many times.

This has never been demonstrated.

Eliminating racism is not achieved through legislation and law enforcement. For those who are racists will continue to think racism when they are not allowed to act upon it. Its not eliminated that way.

I agree, I never said we should. We need legislation to ensure equality and we need education and dialogue to combat racism.

In a way, your solution runs parallel to religious legalism. Only, you are using secular powers to achieve your goal.

No. I am using the power of the government to ensure equality. That is it. I never said it can end racism.

Legislation can not transform men. It only puts them in a straight jacket. It can dumb them down over time.

I never said it could.

 

[Chesterton]

I am not sold on non interference. I respect that someone has the right to hold a belief, but I do not respect all beliefs and actively act against some beliefs. If a person holds a belief that they can flap their arms and fly then just refraining from interfering may be detrimental to the person holding the belief. We are seeing this play out with the black lives matter movement. Just respecting someones racist belief and do not interfere is not enough, some beliefs need to be challenged and eradicated, like flying or racism.

Well, believing you can fly would probably be due to mental illness, and we have various ways of trying to help people.

With "racism" I'm not sure what you mean, because that word could be applied by different people to a wide spectrum of things, from "I prefer to date my own kind" to genocide.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Well, believing you can fly would probably be due to mental illness, and we have various ways of trying to help people.

OK. Do you think we should try to change their belief that they can fly?

With "racism" I'm not sure what you mean, because that word could be applied by different people to a wide spectrum of things, from "I prefer to date my own kind" to genocide.

Both have the same root belief that other people due to physical differences are somehow different and that they are justified in genocide or not dating because of this. This thinking should be challenged and we should try to convince people that they are wrong.

 

[Chesterton]

OK. Do you think we should try to change their belief that they can fly?

I suppose I'd give it a shot. Wouldn't spend too much time on it, though. I mean, if they're crazy...

Both have the same root belief that other people due to physical differences are somehow different and that they are justified in genocide or not dating because of this. This thinking should be challenged and we should try to convince people that they are wrong.

You can challenge them to debate.

 

[GenemZ]

Really? You would just let a person that believes they can fly kill themselves without trying to stop them? Convince them that they cannot fly?

Only if they can not be convinced.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Well, believing you can fly would probably be due to mental illness, and we have various ways of trying to help people.

Religions hijack mental illnesses. For example, do you suffer from schizophrenia or is God speaking to you?

Does it come down to, "If the voices tell you to do something good/consistent with God, then it's God; if the voices tell you to do something bad/inconsistent with God, then it's mental illness or the devil"?

With "racism" I'm not sure what you mean, because that word could be applied by different people to a wide spectrum of things, from "I prefer to date my own kind" to genocide.

If you're just not attracted to people of a certain skin color, that's not racism. If you are genuinely attracted to them, but refuse to date them because of their race, then you are a racist.

 

[Chesterton]

Religions hijack mental illnesses. For example, do you suffer from schizophrenia or is God speaking to you?

Neither at the moment.

If you're just not attracted to people of a certain skin color, that's not racism. If you are genuinely attracted to them, but refuse to date them because of their race, then you are a racist.

That's your opinion. Others feel differently.