Civil Rights Law Protects L.G.B.T. Workers, Supreme Court Rules

[Hank77]

But if they are going to provide a public service, such as teaching in schools then they ought to play by the same anti-discrimination laws as everyone else.

Christian schools are private schools. I don't know of any in the US that receive any public funding. Parents pay tuition.

 

[stevil]

Christian schools are private schools. I don't know of any in the US that receive any public funding. Parents pay tuition.

Teaching children is a public service. It is selling eduction.
Just like selling apples is a public service.

We wouldn't be happy with an apple shop that only sells to non gays. And we wouldn't be happy with an apply shop that only hires non gay casheirs.
Why are we happy with a school that won't hire gay teachers or will fire a teacher who marries a person that the school owner doesn't think is moral enough?

 

[hedrick]

I think you are right--when challenged, they will likely permit a religious exemption.

I'm not even sure I disagree. The main concern in Catholic schools is that standards are being enforced that neither teachers not students agree with. And probably not even most priests. But that's Catholics' problem to solve, not the courts.

 

[Hank77]

Teaching children is a public service. It is selling eduction.

It's a public service in a public school system.

 

[Caliban]

I'm not even sure I disagree. The main concern in Catholic schools is that standards are being enforced that neither teachers not students agree with. And probably not even most priests. But that's Catholics' problem to solve, not the courts.

I'm not confident it is the Catholic Church's problems and not the courts. The state should protect Americans from discriminatory behavior in general.

 

[hedrick]

I'm not confident it is the Catholic Church's problems and not the courts. The state should protect Americans from discriminatory behavior in general.

The constitution protects free association and religion. I think you should be free to be part of a group with its own standards, as long as they don’t sacrifice humans or something. The teachers decided to work as part of a group with which they had a pretty serious disagreement. I actually feel worse about gay kids caught in a conservative school. They often don’t have a choice. I don’t think a Catholic school would mistreat them. After all, most of the teachers disagree with the church. But in a conservative Protestant school things could be difficult.

 

[stevil]

It's a public service in a public school system.

But a retail store, like a grocer that is owned privately, they cannot break the anti-discrimination laws.
They cannot discriminate against customers or employees.

I don't see why schools (whether they are privately owned or publicly owned) can break the anti-discrimination laws. What makes selling apples different to selling education?
Why do religious organisations need to get into the education business?
Them doing this means that there are less jobs in society for those people that they discriminate against.

 

[Caliban]

The constitution protects free association and religion. I think you should be free to be part of a group with its own standards, as long as they don’t sacrifice humans or something. The teachers decided to work as part of a group with which they had a pretty serious disagreement. I actually feel worse about gay kids caught in a conservative school. They often don’t have a choice. I don’t think a Catholic school would mistreat them. After all, most of the teachers disagree with the church. But in a conservative Protestant school things could be difficult.

I agree with that!

 

[Hank77]

Them doing this means that there are less jobs in society for those people that they discriminate against.

They give jobs to those were are qualified to teach and set an example of the religious organization's beliefs. Religious people need jobs too.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Christian schools are private schools. I don't know of any in the US that receive any public funding. Parents pay tuition.

This is the crux of the current fight over school vouchers. Some areas do provide public vouchers to private schools, including religious schools in some cases.

As of December 2016, 14 states had traditional school voucher programs. [53] These states consist of: Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Utah, Vermont, and Wisconsin. The capital of the United States, Washington, D.C., also had operating school voucher programs as of December 2016.[53] When including scholarship tax credits and education savings accounts – two alternatives to vouchers – there are 27 states plus the District of Columbia with private school choice programs.

Twenty-six percent of Milwaukee students will receive public funding to attend schools outside the traditional Milwaukee Public School system. In fact, if the voucher program alone were considered a school district, it would mark the sixth-largest district in Wisconsin. St. Anthony Catholic School, located on Milwaukee's south side, boasts 966 voucher students, meaning that it very likely receives more public money for general school support of a parochial elementary or high school than any before it in American history.

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LINK2
Since day one of the Trump administration, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has tried to funnel public money to private, religious schools through private school vouchers. We’ve seen Secretary DeVos’ proposal for nationwide federally-funded vouchers, her plan to expand an existing voucher program in Washington, D.C., her attempt at vouchers for military families, and even her decision to rebrand vouchers as “education freedom scholarships” (Different name, same thing: They’re private school vouchers). Thus far, her attempts have failed. But DeVos finally had her lucky break: the coronavirus pandemic.

Back in March, Congress passed the CARES Act, which included $30.75 billion of emergency education reliefto help public schools and colleges deal with the crisis. Secretary DeVos redirected hundreds of millions of these funds to her personal top priority: private schools. Contrary to Congress’s intent, DeVos has been using the pandemic as an excuse to redirect funds from public schools to private, religious schools.

 

[stevil]

They give jobs to those were are qualified to teach and set an example of the religious organization's beliefs. Religious people need jobs too.

True, yes. And public schools don't discriminate. Religious teachers can compete with other teachers for the available jobs.
I certainly wouldn't expect an atheist to teach a Bible study class or religious studies class (although technically they could). But in order to teach Math or Science or English or Social Studies I don't see how the teachers beliefs or marriage status or sexual orientation has anything to do with it.

But lets say that in a town, there are enough students for two schools. There are two secular, non descriminatory schools that provide this service. This provides X amount of teaching jobs that all those qualified for (regardless of age, race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, marital status, past marital status of husbands or wifes of the teacher) can apply for.
But then a Religious school comes to town and is so popular that half the kids are sent there.
You still will have two schools. One of the original schools will shut down.
Now there are only half the opportunities for teachers who are discriminated against by this new religious school. And 1.5 times more opportunities for those that the Religious school accept.

Great for a straight Christian teacher with a suitable partner. Not so great for those that are discriminated against. Overall society is worse off.

 

[hedrick]

Actions speak louder than words. If you want to have a Christian school, it’s perfectly reasonable to want teachers that demonstrate a Christian life. However your church envisions a Christian life. Firing a gay teacher, of course, speaks loudly about what your church thinks Christianity is. Many, maybe even most, high school students will think this shows that your church isn’t something they want to be part of. But that’s not a problem for the courts to solve.

 

[Hank77]

This is the crux of the current fight over school vouchers. Some areas do provide public vouchers to private schools, including religious schools in some cases.

As of December 2016, 14 states had traditional school voucher programs. [53] These states consist of: Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Utah, Vermont, and Wisconsin. The capital of the United States, Washington, D.C., also had operating school voucher programs as of December 2016.[53] When including scholarship tax credits and education savings accounts – two alternatives to vouchers – there are 27 states plus the District of Columbia with private school choice programs.

Twenty-six percent of Milwaukee students will receive public funding to attend schools outside the traditional Milwaukee Public School system. In fact, if the voucher program alone were considered a school district, it would mark the sixth-largest district in Wisconsin. St. Anthony Catholic School, located on Milwaukee's south side, boasts 966 voucher students, meaning that it very likely receives more public money for general school support of a parochial elementary or high school than any before it in American history.

---
LINK2
Since day one of the Trump administration, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has tried to funnel public money to private, religious schools through private school vouchers. We’ve seen Secretary DeVos’ proposal for nationwide federally-funded vouchers, her plan to expand an existing voucher program in Washington, D.C., her attempt at vouchers for military families, and even her decision to rebrand vouchers as “education freedom scholarships” (Different name, same thing: They’re private school vouchers). Thus far, her attempts have failed. But DeVos finally had her lucky break: the coronavirus pandemic.

Back in March, Congress passed the CARES Act, which included $30.75 billion of emergency education reliefto help public schools and colleges deal with the crisis. Secretary DeVos redirected hundreds of millions of these funds to her personal top priority: private schools. Contrary to Congress’s intent, DeVos has been using the pandemic as an excuse to redirect funds from public schools to private, religious schools.

I stand corrected, thank you for the information.

This is from St Anthony's website. It sounds like the Parent Choice Program is the voucher program which is for families that can't afford the tuition.
Admissions | St. Anthony School

We value each employee’s opinion and inspire every employee to be the best they can be. We take pride in our collaboration, integrity, leadership, diversity and passion for the Catholic Faith.

St. Anthony Catholic School offers a quality Catholic education to all students PreK - 12th grade, while respecting the dignity of every child. Race, nationality, or other forms of discrimination will not prevent a child from being accepted into our school.

St. Anthony School participates in the Milwaukee Parental Choice Program. In order to apply for MPCP, you must complete the online application.

The total cost for tuition at St. Anthony School is:

• K4 - 8th Grade - $8,300
• 9th - 12th Grade - $8,946
• Parishioners - $1,600

 

[Hank77]

Actions speak louder than words. If you want to have a Christian school, it’s perfectly reasonable to want teachers that demonstrate a Christian life. However your church envisions a Christian life. Firing a gay teacher, of course, speaks loudly about what your church thinks Christianity is. Many, maybe even most, high school students will think this shows that your church isn’t something they want to be part of. But that’s not a problem for the courts to solve.

My point was that if a religious school does not accept public funding they should have the right to hire who they choose.

 

[46AND2]

Good. No one's sexuality should have any bearing on their employment status.
(With the exception of teaching in Christian schools where the agreement would typically be to teach only in biblical alignment.)

Schools have approved curriculum. Just as a fundamentalist Christian is expected to teach evolution at a public school, in line with the approved curriculum, so too would a non-believer be expected to abide by the approved curriculum at a private school. The decision to deny employment should not be based on religious beliefs or sexual orientation grounds at the time of application, but rather whether or not the teacher adheres to the approved curriculum.

 

[MIDutch]

This is the crux of the current fight over school vouchers. Some areas do provide public vouchers to private schools, including religious schools in some cases.

As of December 2016, 14 states had traditional school voucher programs. [53] These states consist of: Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Utah, Vermont, and Wisconsin. The capital of the United States, Washington, D.C., also had operating school voucher programs as of December 2016.[53] When including scholarship tax credits and education savings accounts – two alternatives to vouchers – there are 27 states plus the District of Columbia with private school choice programs.

Twenty-six percent of Milwaukee students will receive public funding to attend schools outside the traditional Milwaukee Public School system. In fact, if the voucher program alone were considered a school district, it would mark the sixth-largest district in Wisconsin. St. Anthony Catholic School, located on Milwaukee's south side, boasts 966 voucher students, meaning that it very likely receives more public money for general school support of a parochial elementary or high school than any before it in American history.

---
LINK2
Since day one of the Trump administration, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has tried to funnel public money to private, religious schools through private school vouchers. We’ve seen Secretary DeVos’ proposal for nationwide federally-funded vouchers, her plan to expand an existing voucher program in Washington, D.C., her attempt at vouchers for military families, and even her decision to rebrand vouchers as “education freedom scholarships” (Different name, same thing: They’re private school vouchers). Thus far, her attempts have failed. But DeVos finally had her lucky break: the coronavirus pandemic.

Back in March, Congress passed the CARES Act, which included $30.75 billion of emergency education reliefto help public schools and colleges deal with the crisis. Secretary DeVos redirected hundreds of millions of these funds to her personal top priority: private schools. Contrary to Congress’s intent, DeVos has been using the pandemic as an excuse to redirect funds from public schools to private, religious schools.

One of the reasons Betsy Devos is generally hated here in Michigan (except with her evangelical Western Michigan base). She actively worked to destroy public education that serves the vast majority of the students, in order to funnel public funds to wealthy private schools.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Provisions of Title VII provide exemptions for certain religious organizations and schools “with respect to the employment of individuals of a partic- ular religion to perform work connected with the carrying on” of the “activities” of the organization or school, 42 U. S. C. §2000e–1(a); see also §2000e–2(e)(2), but the scope of these provisions is disputed

This probably ties into cases where teachers are automatically alleged to be ministers.

Or music directors.

Catholic church fires lesbian music director for marrying a woman

Gonda's firing comes nine days after the U.S. Supreme Court issued its historic ruling that granted federal job protections to gay, lesbian and transgender workers.

 

[98cwitr]

I thought gender and sex weren't the same thing.

So I assume this undoes Trump's order to ban transgender military personnel?

 

[98cwitr]

But a retail store, like a grocer that is owned privately, they cannot break the anti-discrimination laws.
They cannot discriminate against customers or employees.

I don't see why schools (whether they are privately owned or publicly owned) can break the anti-discrimination laws. What makes selling apples different to selling education?
Why do religious organisations need to get into the education business?
Them doing this means that there are less jobs in society for those people that they discriminate against.

Because buying or eating an apple doesn't involve exposure to human sexuality without a fully developed frontal cortex, nor does it involve chronic indoctrination.

 

[loveofourlord]

Though with Gorsuch I think there would have been some concern but he would have been acceptable if it wasn't for the nature of his nomination. I think people were still too angry over the treatment Judge Garland got to judge Justice Gorsuch fairly.

well another issue was he's a originalist, which can often mean, he will ignore 100 or so years of prescidence to go with what I think the founding fathers meant.