LDS when and how did God become the father of our spirits

[Jamesone5]

Was Jesus not a man? Is Jesus not a God? Same person. He is a Man/God.

You obviously forgot "Yahweh" in front of "Elohim", so it is Yahweh Elohim.

The translators say this means "The Lord God". But a better translation would be "Jehovah, of the Gods" or "Jehovah, of the Council of the Gods". Who also became Jesus in the NT.
Again, Elohim means Gods, or Council of the Gods. So the Gods created everything in spirit form in the first chapter of Genesis, and then they chose Jehovah from the Council of the Gods to be the God that oversaw the creation of the natural world in chapter 2 of Genesis, A&E in the flesh, plants, animals etc, etc, etc.

So there really should be no confusion. If you insist, I will go over it again. It is not difficult.
You just have to study it out a little bit. Learn a couple of names in Hebrew and you will have it.

Hold on there---you chose one point and avoided many others.

If you have no answer to the fact that you assign [at will] different names to your different two God with Bible Scripture references --I certainly understand. 2 Chapter of Genesis as some sort of reference means nothing with the point you are trying to assume.
Did you merely assume it would be clear in your construct to me?

and then they chose Jehovah from the Council of the Gods---Peter1000

Who is they?








But a better translation would be "Jehovah, of the Gods" or "Jehovah, of the Council of the Gods". Who also became Jesus in the NT.---Peter1000

And a better translation? To you?

What is this Council of Gods? Your God need some sort of deliberating Council?

So the Gods created everything in spirit form in the first chapter of Genesis, and then they chose Jehovah from the Council of the Gods to be the God that oversaw the creation of the natural world----Peter1000

Where would we find all this stuff you claim? God created in the Finite Form and then added the breath of Life, This is listed in Genesis.

Is Jesus not a God?---Peter1000

Answer

Most definitely NO.

He is God not "a" God.
Why must you argue with John 1:1?

Answer all my questions and then we can go further. You are making all the out-of _Bible claims, by the way

 

[Peter1000]

Hold on there---you chose one point and avoided the other.

If you have no answer to the fact that you assign [at will] different names to your different two God with Bible Scripture references --I certainly understand. 2 Chapter of Genesis as some sort of reference means nothing with the point you are trying to assume.

So you understand again. God the Father = Elohim translated into God, but should be translated into Gods or the Council of the Gods.

God the Son = Yahweh Elohim translated into The Lord God.

God the Son has other names too. They are Jehovah, in the OT and Jesus, and the Word of God, and the son of man in the NT.

I have always maintained one name for God the Father = Elohim translated into God.

 

[Jamesone5]

delete

 

[Jamesone5]

You at least believe in 3 distinct Personages in 1 God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Which Personage said this?

God said it---once again.

Obviously you do not read my posts so it is back to Ignore for you.

 

[Jamesone5]

It makes it clear that Jehovah is one Lord. He is also the covenanted God of Israel. But we already knew that. We also know this:

(New Testament | John 6:38)

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

What is this covenanted God of Israel and where in the Bible can I find this Covenanted God? Sounds like He is named God to Mormons.

 

[Peter1000]

God said it---once again.

Obviously you do not read my posts so it is back to Ignore for you.

So the 3 said it in unison?

 

[Jamesone5]

So the 3 said it in unison?

. How or why would One God speak in some sort of unison?
You imagining some kind of choir with your Gods?

 

[He is the way]

What is this covenanted God of Israel and where in the Bible can I find this Covenanted God? Sounds like He is named God to Mormons.

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 31:33)

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(New Testament | Hebrews 8:7 - 10)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[Jamesone5]

delete

 

[Jamesone5]

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 31:33)

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(New Testament | Hebrews 8:7 - 10)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Once again, where is the term covenanted God of Israel?

You after all claimed this:

It makes it clear that Jehovah is one Lord. He is also the covenanted God of Israel.---HITW


More Mormon assumptions of what the Bible does not say?

 

[Andrewn]

These names: The Lord God/ Jehovah/ Yahweh Elohim/Jesus are the name of the same person, you are right. In the OT, Jesus was known as The Lord God and by Jehovah and in Hebrew Jesus was known as Yahweh Elohim. In the NT Jesus is known as The Word of God or the son of man or Jesus. These are all names of the man we know as Jesus.

God the Father is known as God the Father, God, Father, and in Hebrew he is known as Elohim.

He is separate and distinct from the man we know as Jesus.

There are occasions where Elohim refers to the Son and Jehovah refers to the Father. They're called by same names bec they're the same God.

Again, Elohim means Gods, or Council of the Gods. So the Gods created everything in spirit form in the first chapter of Genesis, and then they chose Jehovah from the Council of the Gods to be the God that oversaw the creation of the natural world in chapter 2 of Genesis, A&E in the flesh, plants, animals etc, etc, etc.

Who are the elohim and the beni elohim in the OT?

 

[He is the way]

Once again, where is the term covenanted God of Israel?

You after all claimed this:

It makes it clear that Jehovah is one Lord. He is also the covenanted God of Israel.---HITW


More Mormon assumptions of what the Bible does not say?

Here is another scripture that points out what the covenant means:

(Old Testament | Genesis 17:7)

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

As I have shown that is what the Bible does say in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, is that Jehovah made a covenant with Israel to deliver them out of Egypt and to be their God:

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 31:33)

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(New Testament | Hebrews 8:7 - 10)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[Jamesone5]

Here is another scripture that points out what the covenant means:

(Old Testament | Genesis 17:7)

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

As I have shown that is what the Bible does say in both the Old Testament and the New Testament, is that Jehovah made a covenant with Israel to deliver them out of Egypt and to be their God:

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 31:33)

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(New Testament | Hebrews 8:7 - 10)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Once again you miss the point as our God is not a "covenanted God"---or at least now in your interpretations.

He IS also the covenanted God of Israel. But we already knew that. We also know this:---HITW

Here is one of the verses you used:

10 For
this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God
, and they shall be to me a people
:
​

The goal of all of mankind should be--- to be right with God. After the Fall, we lost that connection and everyone should be seeking God. We do not or should not need a covenant for all that because that a covenant is an agreement of sorts. The OT and the usage of a Covenant is meant for them as examples that we can look back upon and after Christ came the new covenant came into existence which is simply


Luke 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

You believe in Christ, simply there is no covenant to agree upon or follow. Christ, in a sense takes away the need in that new covenant

God certainly did not add a covenant to follow to this:

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

​

 

[He is the way]

Once again you miss the point as our God is not a "covenanted God"---or at least now in your interpretations.

He IS also the covenanted God of Israel. But we already knew that. We also know this:---HITW

Here is one of the verses you used:

10 For
this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God
, and they shall be to me a people
:
​

The goal of all of mankind should be--- to be right with God. After the Fall, we lost that connection and everyone should be seeking God. We do not or should not need a covenant for all that because that a covenant is an agreement of sorts. The OT and the usage of a Covenant is meant for them as examples that we can look back upon and after Christ came the new covenant came into existence which is simply


Luke 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

You believe in Christ, simply there is no covenant to agree upon or follow. Christ, in a sense takes away the need in that new covenant

God certainly did not add a covenant to follow to this:

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

One verse out of the Bible is NOT the whole gospel.

(New Testament | Matthew 4:4)

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Jamesone5]

One verse out of the Bible is NOT the whole gospel.

(New Testament | Matthew 4:4)

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So the Gospel is in the OT?
That is what you are claiming?
That the people in the OT could come to the Gospel of Christ without Christ?

 

[Peter1000]

. How or why would One God speak in some sort of unison?
You imagining some kind of choir with your Gods?

You must not know your God very well.

You tell that you believe in 3 distinct Personages in 1 God. My simple question is which one of these Personages said There is no God beside me? Or did all 3 say this in unison?

 

[Jamesone5]

You must not know your God very well.

You tell that you believe in 3 distinct Personages in 1 God. My simple question is which one of these Personages said There is no God beside me? Or did all 3 say this in unison?

when one Personage says it--- they all say it.
Does the Father have to be present when the Holy
Spirit leads you to His Truth through God's Word?

 

[Peter1000]

Jamesone5 says:

and then they chose Jehovah from the Council of the Gods---Peter1000

Who is they?

BTW, that should be "Who are they?"

What you must remember is the true translation of Elohim is Gods, not God. To confirm that JS was telling the truth, we read in Genesis 1:26:
Genesis 1:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now, where it says Let us, substitute, "Let the Gods" make man in our image, after our likeness........ You ask me, "Who are they"? Well we know one is our God, God the Father, we have a pretty good idea that another one is Yahweh Elohim, who is introduced by name in chapter 2 of Genesis. We also believe there is a another one who is only known as the Holy Spirit. We are not given to know if "us" = 2 or if "us" = more than 2.

But this we know, there were at least 2 Gods involved in the creation. It is purely biblical and it is true.

What is this Council of Gods? Your God need some sort of deliberating Council?

We believe that when it was time to create the earth, there was a Council of Gods (as Moses wrote) that came together to formulate the engineering of the Earth, the heavens, and everything to be put on the earth from the lowest plant and animal life, to the most glorious of all creations, man. That's why Moses chose the name Elohim(plural) instead of Eloh (singular).

Where would we find all this stuff you claim? God created in the Finite Form and then added the breath of Life, This is listed in Genesis.

I find this stuff in the first 2 chapters of Genesis. I have been trying to tell you about it.
That is why it is important to know the difference between Elohim and Yahweh Elohim. Elohim should be translated Gods, or Council of the Gods, but not just God in Genesis chapter 1.

Yahweh Elohim should be translated, Jehovah, of the Gods, or of the Council of the Gods, at least the first time in Genesis 2, and not just The Lord God. After Genesis 2:4 and a proper introduction, then you can call him The Lord God. He is also called other names in the bible, one of which is Jehovah, and he is the one that created all things in their natural state in Genesis 2. He is also known as the God of the OT, because His Father, Elohim gave him all power and authority to create and govern the creation. Elohim pretty much stays in heaven, on occasion come to earth to testify of His Son, but it is a rare occasion.

I don't have any idea what you mean by "Finite Form". It seems that nothing is "finite" until after the resurrection.

He is God not "a" God.

As you can see from Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, there are at least 2 Gods. Jesus is one of them.
And from your own pen, God is made up of 3 distinct Personages, not just one.

There, I have answered all your questions, I hope you do the same the next time I ask.

 

[Jamesone5]

Jamesone5 says:


BTW, that should be "Who are they?"

What you must remember is the true translation of Elohim is Gods, not God. To confirm that JS was telling the truth, we read in Genesis 1:26:
Genesis 1:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now, where it says Let us, substitute, "Let the Gods" make man in our image, after our likeness........ You ask me, "Who are they"? Well we know one is our God, God the Father, we have a pretty good idea that another one is Yahweh Elohim, who is introduced by name in chapter 2 of Genesis. We also believe there is a another one who is only known as the Holy Spirit. We are not given to know if "us" = 2 or if "us" = more than 2.

But this we know, there were at least 2 Gods involved in the creation. It is purely biblical and it is true.


We believe that when it was time to create the earth, there was a Council of Gods (as Moses wrote) that came together to formulate the engineering of the Earth, the heavens, and everything to be put on the earth from the lowest plant and animal life, to the most glorious of all creations, man. That's why Moses chose the name Elohim(plural) instead of Eloh (singular).



I find this stuff in the first 2 chapters of Genesis. I have been trying to tell you about it.
That is why it is important to know the difference between Elohim and Yahweh Elohim. Elohim should be translated Gods, or Council of the Gods, but not just God in Genesis chapter 1.

Yahweh Elohim should be translated, Jehovah, of the Gods, or of the Council of the Gods, at least the first time in Genesis 2, and not just The Lord God. After Genesis 2:4 and a proper introduction, then you can call him The Lord God. He is also called other names in the bible, one of which is Jehovah, and he is the one that created all things in their natural state in Genesis 2. He is also known as the God of the OT, because His Father, Elohim gave him all power and authority to create and govern the creation. Elohim pretty much stays in heaven, on occasion come to earth to testify of His Son, but it is a rare occasion.

I don't have any idea what you mean by "Finite Form". It seems that nothing is "finite" until after the resurrection.



As you can see from Genesis 1 and Genesis 2, there are at least 2 Gods. Jesus is one of them.
And from your own pen, God is made up of 3 distinct Personages, not just one.

There, I have answered all your questions, I hope you do the same the next time I ask.

Yahweh Elohim should be translated, Jehovah, or Gods, or of the Council of the Gods, at least the first time in Genesis 2,-Peter1000

Or more specifically you claim:

Elohim should be translated Gods, or Council of the Gods, but not just God in Genesis chapter 1. ---Peter1000

You are already confused as you omit the first part of the Hebrew designation.


In no way is Yahweh Elohim translated as the Council of Gods.


That is a Mormon invention---- which I notice you provide no proof for. This is what it means:



"Yahweh Elohim is the Old Testament name attributed to the New Testament Word, who is Jesus Christ. Learn why these names are eternal, not testament specific."

From the site:

Yahweh Elohim. Discover This Inseparable Relationship • The Explanation

{note: this is but one explanation of many, many other good explanations}

Now either you want to learn what Christians believe OR you want to argue and pretend to tell us what we believe. Your choice.

 

[Andrewn]

You tell that you believe in 3 distinct Personages in 1 God. My simple question is which one of these Personages said There is no God beside me? Or did all 3 say this in unison?

There are no 3 personages, there is one God and He said:

Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. I will strengthen you, though you do not know Me,