LDS when and how did God become the father of our spirits

[Daniel Marsh]

when and how did God become the father of our spirits?
when and how did God give us a Soul?
Is mind a part of our spirit or a part of our soul?

Some LDS proof texts are:
Hebrews 12:9 leaves open creation of our spirits
Psalms 82:6 in context speaks of wrongful judges who belonged to God
Romans 8:16-18 in context we become his children when we are born of the Spirit.

Romans 8:15
The Spirit that we received is not a spirit that makes us slaves again and causes us to fear. The Spirit that we have makes us God’s chosen children. And with that Spirit we cry out, “ Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6 Since you are now God’s children, he has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts. The Spirit cries out, “ Abba, Father.”

above two texts shows a transition. We need working definitions of mind, spirit and soul too.

A Reformed Protestant view:

"(2) We learn further that God took the human form so constructed by his hand and breathed into him the breath of life. God, not himself being a human form, cannot exhale carbon dioxide or even oxygen and breathe it into man. No, we recognize that we have here an anthropomorphic expression (a truth set forth in language perceptible to man). God's "breathing into" has reference to his creative act of making the human form a living being in whom the spirit (breath of God) is the life-giving essence, the life principle. Human life is the living spirit. Man is of vertical origin, from God. He is spirit. Horizontally he is linked to creation in the form he takes from creation about him. God infuses spirit in man's earthly form so that he becomes an organic whole."
A Christian Theory of the Person

Genesis 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 Expanded Bible (EXB)
7 Then the Lord God took dust from the ground and formed a man from it [C there is wordplay between “ground” (adama) and “man” (adam)]. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nose, and the man became a living person.

LDS view:

"God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335)."
Spirit Children of Heavenly Parents

 

[Hopeful37]

In the beginning... God's spirit moved on the deep...created everything life. Trees, animals...Adam... and from Adam, Eve....and then they were fruitful and multiplied..and today im here and so are u.

 

[Peter1000]

when and how did God become the father of our spirits?
when and how did God give us a Soul?
Is mind a part of our spirit or a part of our soul?

Some LDS proof texts are:
Hebrews 12:9 leaves open creation of our spirits
Psalms 82:6 in context speaks of wrongful judges who belonged to God
Romans 8:16-18 in context we become his children when we are born of the Spirit.

Romans 8:15
The Spirit that we received is not a spirit that makes us slaves again and causes us to fear. The Spirit that we have makes us God’s chosen children. And with that Spirit we cry out, “ Abba, Father.”

Galatians 4:6 Since you are now God’s children, he has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts. The Spirit cries out, “ Abba, Father.”

above two texts shows a transition. We need working definitions of mind, spirit and soul too.

A Reformed Protestant view:

"(2) We learn further that God took the human form so constructed by his hand and breathed into him the breath of life. God, not himself being a human form, cannot exhale carbon dioxide or even oxygen and breathe it into man. No, we recognize that we have here an anthropomorphic expression (a truth set forth in language perceptible to man). God's "breathing into" has reference to his creative act of making the human form a living being in whom the spirit (breath of God) is the life-giving essence, the life principle. Human life is the living spirit. Man is of vertical origin, from God. He is spirit. Horizontally he is linked to creation in the form he takes from creation about him. God infuses spirit in man's earthly form so that he becomes an organic whole."
A Christian Theory of the Person

Genesis 2:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 Expanded Bible (EXB)
7 Then the Lord God took dust from the ground and formed a man from it [C there is wordplay between “ground” (adama) and “man” (adam)]. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nose, and the man became a living person.

LDS view:

"God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335)."
Spirit Children of Heavenly Parents

There are many scriptures in the bible that help us understand that God is the Father of our spirits. Our literal Father, and this spirit is the life giving element each of our personal souls.

The details of when and how is not given.

 

[Jamesone5]

There are many scriptures in the bible that help us understand that God is the Father of our spirits. Our literal Father, and this spirit is the life giving element each of our personal souls.

The details of when and how is not given.

The details of when and how is not given---Peter1000

Well, you were partially right here---but then the "how" in the Bible is not given and of course the "when". Just assumptions of Mormons how we are literal sons of the Father.

Before you drag out your John 20:17 verse, lets look at some context of Father as it was used in the Hebrew and Greek languages. From Easton's Bible Dictionary:

Father
a name applied (1) to any ancestor (Deut. 1:11; 1 Kings 15:11; Matt. 3:9; 23:30, etc.); and (2) as a title of respect to a chief, ruler, or elder, etc. (Judg. 17:10; 18:19; 1 Sam. 10:12; 2 Kings 2:12; Matt. 23:9, etc.). (3) The author or beginner of anything is also so called; e.g., Jabal and Jubal (Gen. 4:20, 21; comp. Job 38:28).

Applied to God (Ex. 4:22; Deut. 32:6; 2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 89:27, 28, etc.). (1.) As denoting his covenant relation to the Jews (Jer. 31:9; Isa. 63:16; 64:8; John 8:41, etc.).

(2.) Believers are called God's "sons" (John 1:12; Rom. 8:16; Matt. 6:4, 8, 15, 18; 10:20, 29). They also call him "Father" (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:4)



Christ was certainly on board with this in referencing His Father---and not in a literal rendition of course.

 

[Peter1000]

The details of when and how is not given---Peter1000

Well, you were partially right here---but then the "how" in the Bible is not given and of course the "when". Just assumptions of Mormons how we are literal sons of the Father.

Before you drag out your John 20:17 verse, lets look at some context of Father as it was used in the Hebrew and Greek languages. From Easton's Bible Dictionary:

Father
a name applied (1) to any ancestor (Deut. 1:11; 1 Kings 15:11; Matt. 3:9; 23:30, etc.); and (2) as a title of respect to a chief, ruler, or elder, etc. (Judg. 17:10; 18:19; 1 Sam. 10:12; 2 Kings 2:12; Matt. 23:9, etc.). (3) The author or beginner of anything is also so called; e.g., Jabal and Jubal (Gen. 4:20, 21; comp. Job 38:28).

Applied to God (Ex. 4:22; Deut. 32:6; 2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 89:27, 28, etc.). (1.) As denoting his covenant relation to the Jews (Jer. 31:9; Isa. 63:16; 64:8; John 8:41, etc.).

(2.) Believers are called God's "sons" (John 1:12; Rom. 8:16; Matt. 6:4, 8, 15, 18; 10:20, 29). They also call him "Father" (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:4)



Christ was certainly on board with this in referencing His Father---and not in a literal rendition of course.

I would like you to get the full context of this lecture that God gives to Job, so here it is:
Job 38:1-11 King James Version (KJV)
38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

God is talking to Job out of a whirlwind, and asks Job where he was when God made the earth.
And in the middle of this question and answer session, God says an interesting thing about His Sons, obviously with Him before the earth was created.
See verse 7: When the morning stars sang together and ALL the SONS of GOD shouted for Joy?

Who were these SONS of GOD that existed before God had finished the earth?
Why were these SONS of GOD shouting for joy?

Go to your Greek and Hebrew and see what you find, and then tell me what you think.

 

[Peter1000]

The details of when and how is not given---Peter1000

Well, you were partially right here---but then the "how" in the Bible is not given and of course the "when". Just assumptions of Mormons how we are literal sons of the Father.

Before you drag out your John 20:17 verse, lets look at some context of Father as it was used in the Hebrew and Greek languages. From Easton's Bible Dictionary:

Father
a name applied (1) to any ancestor (Deut. 1:11; 1 Kings 15:11; Matt. 3:9; 23:30, etc.); and (2) as a title of respect to a chief, ruler, or elder, etc. (Judg. 17:10; 18:19; 1 Sam. 10:12; 2 Kings 2:12; Matt. 23:9, etc.). (3) The author or beginner of anything is also so called; e.g., Jabal and Jubal (Gen. 4:20, 21; comp. Job 38:28).

Applied to God (Ex. 4:22; Deut. 32:6; 2 Sam. 7:14; Ps. 89:27, 28, etc.). (1.) As denoting his covenant relation to the Jews (Jer. 31:9; Isa. 63:16; 64:8; John 8:41, etc.).

(2.) Believers are called God's "sons" (John 1:12; Rom. 8:16; Matt. 6:4, 8, 15, 18; 10:20, 29). They also call him "Father" (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:4)



Christ was certainly on board with this in referencing His Father---and not in a literal rendition of course.

Who were these SONS OF GOD that presented themselves before God in heaven?
Job 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

 

[Jamesone5]

Who were these SONS OF GOD that presented themselves before God in heaven?
Job 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Why should it be any different with these sons of God?

After all He created them--not literally fathered them.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Do not need a Concordance for that.

 

[Peter1000]

Why should it be any different with these sons of God?

After all He created them--not literally fathered them.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Do not need a Concordance for that.

It means that before the earth was finished God had sons that shouted for joy in his presence.
In heaven, God had sons that stood before him and he consulted with them.
In heaven, these sons also went to war against lucifer and his followers, before the earth was peopled.

To us, it means that these sons were spirit children of God that he created before the earth was peopled. It is as good an interpretation as there is, and makes sense in the way it connects heaven and earth together, being in heaven before and shouting for joy that the earth was being prepared for our earthly mortal experience.

Lots more could be said, but the "sons of God" in the scriptures are interesting because they exist before the earth was peopled.

 

[Jamesone5]

It means that before the earth was finished God had sons that shouted for joy in his presence.
In heaven, God had sons that came before him and he did things with them.
In heaven, these sons also went to war against lucifer and his followers, before the earth was peopled.

To us, it means that these sons were spirit children of God that he created before the earth was peopled. It is as good an interpretation as there is, and makes sense in the way it connects heaven and earth together, being in heaven before and shouting for joy that the earth was being prepared for our earthly mortal experience.

Lots more could be said, but the "sons of God" in the scriptures are interesting because they exist before the earth was peopled.

In the strange dreams of your false prophet

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

What part of ALL THIHGS do you not comprehend?

Father when used for God is always figurative==like here:

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it

You think the Pharisees wanted to claim the devil as their literal father?

Wait here is one thing that is very curious you claimed

In heaven, God had sons that came before him and he did things with them. ---Peter 1000

How could your God father sons which came before Him?

you are simply misstating the scriptures here and not realized that you have made a false case.

sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,

once again. why would you expect me to follow your confusion?

 

[He is the way]

In your dreams or the strange dreams of your false prophet

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

What part of ALL THIHGS do you not comprehend?

Father when used for God is always figurative==like here:

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it

You think the Pharisees wanted to claim the devil as their literal father?

Wait here is one thing that is very curious you claimed

In heaven, God had sons that came before him and he did things with them. ---Peter 1000

How could your God father sons which came before Him?
You do not even follow your own Doctrine----you expect me to follow your confusion?

Satan came before God to present himself:

(Old Testament | Job 1:6)

6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Perhaps you don't understand what it means to come before God, but all of us will have to come before God our Father and King.

I think you are the one who is confused.

 

[Peter1000]

In the strange dreams of your false prophet

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

What part of ALL THIHGS do you not comprehend?

Father when used for God is always figurative==like here:

John 8:44
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it

You think the Pharisees wanted to claim the devil as their literal father?

Wait here is one thing that is very curious you claimed

In heaven, God had sons that came before him and he did things with them. ---Peter 1000

How could your God father sons which came before Him?

you are simply misstating the scriptures here and not realized that you have made a false case.

sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord,

once again. why would you expect me to follow your confusion?

I didn't mean they came first. I meant they came before his Person to be taught. How could God have sons come before his Person to be taught if he did not have sons in heaven?

 

[Peter1000]

Satan came before God to present himself:

(Old Testament | Job 1:6)

6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Perhaps you don't understand what it means to come before God, but all of us will have to come before God our Father and King.

I think you are the one who is confused.

You were the one confused. Sorry, his sons were not before God existed.
But as you say, they came to present themselves before the Lord. So again, where did this presenting themselves take place. I say in heaven. Where do think God' sons presented themselves before him?

 

[Jamesone5]

I didn't mean they came first. I meant they came before his Person to be taught. How could God have sons come before his Person to be taught if he did not have sons in heaven?

Seems like you are too flustered to get your point across or the right questions posed.

 

[Jamesone5]

I didn't mean they came first. I meant they came before his Person to be taught. How could God have sons come before his Person to be taught if he did not have sons in heaven?

?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

It means that before the earth was finished God had sons that shouted for joy in his presence.
In heaven, God had sons that came before him and he did things with them.
In heaven, these sons also went to war against lucifer and his followers, before the earth was peopled.

To us, it means that these sons were spirit children of God that he created before the earth was peopled. It is as good an interpretation as there is, and makes sense in the way it connects heaven and earth together, being in heaven before and shouting for joy that the earth was being prepared for our earthly mortal experience.

Lots more could be said, but the "sons of God" in the scriptures are interesting because they exist before the earth was peopled.

Where in the Bible did "these sons also went to war against lucifer and his followers, before the earth was peopled."

And, whom were the followers? from the Bible?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Satan came before God to present himself:

(Old Testament | Job 1:6)

6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Perhaps you don't understand what it means to come before God, but all of us will have to come before God our Father and King.

I think you are the one who is confused.

Are you saying the angels existed before God or are you saying the angels simply came into God's presence?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

I didn't mean they came first. I meant they came before his Person to be taught. How could God have sons come before his Person to be taught if he did not have sons in heaven?

Where in the Bible it said that they came into his presence to be taught?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Job 1:6Then the day came for the angels to meet with the Lord. Even Satan was there with them.

Job 2:1[ Satan Bothers Job Again ] Then another day came for the angels to meet with the Lord. Satan joined them for this meeting with the Lord.

Job 4:18Look, God cannot even trust his heavenly servants. He sees faults even in his angels.

Job 5:1“Job, call out if you want, and see if anyone answers! But to which of the angels will you turn?

Job 33:23But maybe one of God’s thousands of angels is watching over them, to speak for them and tell about the good things they have done.

Job 38:7when the morning stars sang together and the angels shouted with joy?

 

[He is the way]

Are you saying the angels existed before God or are you saying the angels simply came into God's presence?

We have always existed in some form:

(Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 3:18)

18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

 

[Lyrasong]

Who were these SONS OF GOD that presented themselves before God in heaven?
Job 2:1 King James Version (KJV)
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

These sons of God are believed to be the angels, some of whom remained faithful to Him, and others of whom (such as Satan) rebelled. It is very sad that Mormon doctrine lowers the omnipotent, transcendent Creator of the Universe to the level of His own creation. He is beyond anything that our minds can conceive, but He sent us Jesus so we can perceive His nature and be in relationship with Him. The bond between Creator and creature, which was ruptured in the Garden of Eden, is restored ... if we will but receive the Savior, Jesus Christ.

Similar to Islam, Mormonism rests upon the visions and testimony of a single man, Joseph Smith. In the Bible, however, we see that God speaks through many witnesses. Like Muhammad, Joseph received communications from an angel. We are counseled by Saint Paul in his Epistles to try the spirits, and warned that demons - those who turned against God - can appear as angels of light. The angel Moroni, who replaces the Cross on Mormon temples, is a sign that something is very wrong with with the beliefs you hold.