How Does Salvation WORK

[5thKingdom]

No, I said all this:
"I'm done with your views. I have proven that there are only 2 groups. Your 3 groupings are unbiblical and unreasonable. Even irrational.

I've given you 3 ways to differentiate the 2 groups:
1. saved and unsaved
2. believers in Christ and unbelievers
3. those going to heaven and those going to hell

That's it. There aren't any more groups of people. Just 2.

I can't say it any more clearly than this. What you want to believe is on you. But it's NOT in the Bible.

I'll tell you one thing about your questions regarding the kingdom of heaven. It isn't about the Church Age in any way. But you are free to opine any way you want."


Maybe you're only partially confused.


Your opinion hasn't been backed up by any evidence so far. So I don't "buy" it.


Well, the word "Christian" didn't even occur until some time after Christ's death, so your second point above is patently false. Acts 11:26 - and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

So, there is NO WAY Jesus would have used the words "Kingdom of Heaven" to refer to a "Christian" kingdom. You are just way confused.


Given your confusion, there is no way I can accept anything you claim about any kingdom.


Oh, I see. You "see" kingdoms, while others see covenants and others see dispensations.


I love what the Bible says. I don't love how people twist and pervert what the Bible says.


But I DO accept what the Bible says. What I absolutely REJECT is your confusion about what the Bible says.


This just shows more of your extreme confusion. I haven't been trying to change what the Bible says.

Please answer this question:

When a person dies, how many places (localities) does the Bible indicate that a person might go to?

This question just may separate the wheat from the tares or sheep from the goats.

I said:

Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"
in Mat 22:2

Jesus specifically NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
in Mat 13 (in 8 verses)

Jesus specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 25:1


You said
Well, the word "Christian" didn't even occur until some time after Christ's death, so your second point above is patently false. Acts 11:26 - and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

But you are CONFLATING subjects.
The Apostles were PREACHING the Christian Gospel before
Jesus died. The question is NOT when the word "Christian"
was first you (that is you deflecting). The question is WHICH
Gospel was being preached? The JEWISH Gospel or the
CHRiSTIAN Gospel?

You are aware the Gospel of Christ and the Apostles
was DIFFERENT than the Gospel of the Jewish Kingdom...
Right? You DO understand that?

------

You said:
Please answer this question:
When a person dies, how many places (localities) does the Bible indicate that a person might go to?
This question just may separate the wheat from the tares or sheep from the goats

(1) The saved wheat in the church go to heaven
(2) The unsaved tares in the church go to the Lake
(3) Those OUTSIDE the church go to the Lake

------------

 

[FreeGrace2]

No kidding? That is EXACTLY what I have been preaching on the forum for the last week.

This SHOWS the TWO groups of people in the church
The THIRD Group are those people OUTSIDE the church.

The so-called 2 groups in the church are illogical, irrational and unreasonable.

There are only 2 kinds of people, whether in or out of a church. Saved and unsaved.

But since you persist, please tell me the eternal destiny of EACH of your 2 so-called groups in the church. Please.

So... As I have been teaching you for a week..
the world consists of THREE (3) groups of people because
the unsaved "tares" in the church are DIFFERENT from the
unsaved souls OUTSIDE the church... like Moslems, Buddhists,
Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, Pagans, Satanists, etc.
--------------

I'm still waiting for your explanation of how the unsaved in the church are different than the unsaved out of the church.

And what is the eternal destiny of each of the unsaved?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said the unsaved Christian in the church is DIFFERENT from the Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist, Pagan and Satanist...

This is just pitiful.

There are NO "unsaved Christians" anywhere. How absurd. btw, I use the word "Christian" the way the Bible does. Obviously you have a completely different understanding, but that's your problem. Not mine.

I YOU FIND THAT CONFUSED?

Even this sentence is confused.

Really... you think they are the same?
You think Christian = Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, etc?

No, of course not. That would be absurd.

Seems like YOU are the one who is VERY Confused.

Just look at the confused sentence you created above.

You said:
A Christian is one who has placed their faith/trust alone
in the finished work of Jesus Christ for salvation. Period.
Those who "claim" to be Christians may be or not.
I can't even imagine what you think a Christian is


Wrong... a "Christian" is everyone who preaches the
Christian Gospel. Some of them are saved "wheat"
and some of them are unsaved "tares".

Please explain why an unsaved "tare" would preach the Christian gospel, if they don't believe it?

btw, my definition of a Christian is biblical, whereas yours is totally unbiblical.

It DOES NOT make your statement true

and you embarrass yourself pretendng
otherwise.

Actually, my statement is true because it is biblical, unlike your statements.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Once Again... a Christian is someone who preaches the
Christian Gospel (it could be a saved "wheat" or it could be
an unsaved "tare).

It seems you just do not realize how ridiculous this idea is. And you can't explain why any unsaved person would "preach the Christian Gospel".

Strange that you "cannot even imagine" that I KNOW this since I have been posting it for a week.

What is really strange is what you post. It certainly cannot be found among evangelical writings. But if you have any evidence, please share.

Do you even READ what I post before you disagree with it?

Of course I do. And I explain WHY I disagree with what you post.

I think not... or maybe you have a reading comprehension problem.

Of course you "think not". That's the problem. But I do question your biblical reading comprehension, given the very strange ideas you have been posting.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You said:
You still haven't answered my question about any substantive difference between your so-called groups #2 and #3. When you do that, I'll answer your questions

But I have already answered that question. I will do so again.

Group 2 are CHRISTIANS

Since you think there are unsaved Christians, I conclude that you don't have any idea what the Bible teaches on the subject.

I will share a 4th way to differentiate the 2 groups:

Christians and non-Christians.

So Group 2 are IN the church (preach the gospel)
but Group 3 are OUTSIDE the church (deny the gospel)
--------

Now, please tell me the eternal destiny of EACH of your 3 groupss.

 

[FreeGrace2]

----------

So tell me:
What is the temporal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 22:2
What is the temporal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 13 (in 8 verses)
What is the temporal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 25:1
What is the ETERNAL "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5 and 7 and 8 and 19

You think you know the Gospel...
This should be an EASY question for you....

Silly questions. The kingdom of heaven isn't "temporal". It is eternal. But your question reveals your own woeful lack of understanding.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Group #1 saved wheat IN THE CHURCH
Group #2 unsaved tares IN THE CHURCH
Group #3 those OUTSIDE the church

OK, now explain the eternal destiny of each of your groups.

Is this REALLY too hard for you to understand? Really?

I never said it was hard to understand. I fully understand how unbiblical your ideas are.

I have been preaching the saved "wheat" in the church
and the unsaved "tares" in the church for a week now...
So your comment above is ridiculous.

Hardly. What is ridiculous is to claim that any unsaved person in a church will "preach the Christian gospel" and that they are Christians who are unsaved.

Unless you do not even BOTHER to READ what I write
(or have some disability with reading... in which case
I apologize for making fun of your disability)
-------

Just a cheap shot at ad hominem. Seems to be your forte.

There is NO SUCH THING as an unsaved Christian. That is utter balderdash.

2 groups in the world: Christians, who are believers and saved, headed for heaven, and non-Christians, who are unbelievers and unsaved, headed for hell.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are aware the Gospel of Christ and the Apostles
was DIFFERENT than the Gospel of the Jewish Kingdom...
Right? You DO understand that?

I fully understand just how unbiblical your notions are. There is only ONE Gospel. Your posts continue to reveal more and more that your views are more cultic than Christian.

So, to be clear, explain how a person was saved in the OT and how a person is saved in the NT. That should clear all this up.

Thanks.

You said:
Please answer this question:
When a person dies, how many places (localities) does the Bible indicate that a person might go to?
This question just may separate the wheat from the tares or sheep from the goats

(1) The saved wheat in the church go to heaven
(2) The unsaved tares in the church go to the Lake
(3) Those OUTSIDE the church go to the Lake

------------

Well, there you go. Thanks for agreeing with me, and finally answering my question.

Since there is no difference between group 2 and 3 regarding their eternal destiny, this proves that there is no difference between them.

And NO Christian will EVER go to the lake of fire. Ever. That is absurd.

Please explain to me what Jesus said and meant in John 10:28. This will clarify things.

 

[5thKingdom]

And what is the eternal destiny of each of the unsaved?

You said:
The so-called 2 groups in the church are illogical, irrational and unreasonable.


I will be sure to tell JESUS that you think that He is
"irrational and unreasonable" because it is JESUS (not me)
that said the church consists of both saved "wheat" and
unsaved "tares".

You see child, when you MOCK ME you are really
MOCKING GOD because I am only repeating what HE said:

Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The [Christian] kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man
which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept,
his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat,
and went his way. But when the blade [wheat] was sprung up,
and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the
servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst
not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath
it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The
servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather
them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares,
ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together
until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the
reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in
bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.


You said
There are only 2 kinds of people, whether in or out of a church.
Saved and unsaved.

So you think an unsaved "tare" in the Christian church
is the SAME as a Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic,
Humanist, Pagan and Satanist. Really?
You think a "Christian" is the SAME as a non-Christian?
That is a remarkable sample of cognitive dissonance.


You said:
But since you persist, please tell me the eternal destiny of EACH
of your 2 so-called groups in the church. Please.

Seriously? You do not know the GOSPEL teaches the
saved "wheat" in the church go to eternal life with God
and the unsaved "tares" in the church go into the Lake of Fire?

This is such a basic and essential element of the Gospel
that it is AMAZING that you would not know this.


You said:
I'm still waiting for your explanation of how the unsaved in the church are different than the unsaved out of the church.

I have explained this to you MULTIPLE times.
Please do not ask this question again:

The DIFFERENCE between the two groups is:
(1) One is Christian
(2) The other is Non-Christian

If you do not understand the DIFFERENCE between
a "Christian" and a Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist,
Agnostic, Humanist, Pagan, Satanist, etc...

Then (respectfully) you really should not be on a
"Christian" forum because THAT is the FIRST THING
Christians learn...


You said:
And what is the eternal destiny of each of the unsaved?

(1) The unsaved Christian goes into the Lake of Fire.
(2) The unsaved NON-Christian goes into the Lake of Fire.

Now... before you embarrass yourself again... remember
the unsaved Jew goes into the Lake of Fire but that
DOES NOT mean that a Jew and Christian are
the same group of people. Jew does NOT equal Christian.

Again... just like a CHRISTIAN is NOT the same group
as a Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist,
Pagan, Satanist, etc.

Let me see if I can HELP your cognitive dissonance on this.
An unsaved man goes into the Lake of Fire and
An unsaved woman goes into the Lake of Fire
BUT that does not mean that man = woman
they are TWO separate-and-distinct groups.

I will NOT explain this fact to you again.
So please do not ask again.

-------

 

[5thKingdom]

I fully understand just how unbiblical your notions are. There is only ONE Gospel.

------------

You said:
And NO Christian will EVER go to the lake of fire. Ever. That is absurd.

I will be sure to tell JESUS that you think He is a liar:

Mat 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, [a Christian]
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven. [the saved "wheat"]
Many [unsaved Christians] will say to me in that day,
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You said:
Please explain to me what Jesus said and meant in John 10:28.
This will clarify things.

Joh 10:27-28
My sheep [the saved "wheat"] hear my voice, and I know them,
and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they
shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

You said:
Since there is no difference between group 2 and 3 regarding their eternal destiny, this proves that there is no difference between them.

Okay... if you want to PRETEND there is NO DIFFERENCE
between a Christian and a NON-Christian... pretend just
as HARD as you want.


You said:
I fully understand just how unbiblical your notions are. There is only ONE Gospel.

Gal 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached
unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now
again, If any man preach any OTHER GOSPEL unto you than
that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Secondly:
Do you really think the Gospel of the Pre-Flood saints was
the SAME GOSPEL as preached by the Jewish saints?

Do you really think the Gospel of the Jewish saints was
the SAME GOSPEL as preached by Christian saints?

Do you really think the Gospel of Christian saints was
the SAME GOSPEL as preached by Great Tribulation saints?

EACH separate-and-distinct "Kingdom of Heaven"
had it's own unique Gospel because God revealed
NEW TREASURE to each generation of saints.

Mat 13:52
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed
unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an
householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure
things new [New Testament] and old [Old Testament].

------------

 

[5thKingdom]

Silly questions. The kingdom of heaven isn't "temporal". It is eternal. But your question reveals your own woeful lack of understanding.

--------------

I asked you:

What is the temporal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 22:2
What is the temporal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 13 (in 8 verses)
What is the temporal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Mat 25:1
What is the ETERNAL "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5 and 7 and 8 and 19

You think you know the Gospel...
This should be an EASY question for you....

You said:
Silly questions. The kingdom of heaven isn't "temporal". It is eternal. But your question reveals your own woeful lack of understanding.


So.. you REFUSE to answer my question... after you PROMISED
to do so. You are a liar.

Secondly... you intentionally IGNORE what Jesus NAMED
in the Scriptures cited above.

Thirdly... you think the Pre-Flood Kingdom was eternal... LOL
You think the Jewish Kingdom was eternal... LOL
You think the Christian Kingdom was eternal... LOL
You think the Great Tribulation Kingdom was eternal... LOL

You clearly do not have a CLUE about the "Kingdoms of Heaven"
which JESUS specifically NAMED... and you obviously just
DO NOT CARE what the Bible says. Good luck with that.

Since you (1) lie about answering my questions and
(2) Refuse to address SCRIPTURES and (3) pretend
to know something about the "Kingdoms of Heaven"
which Jesus specifically NAMED... but REFUSE
to answer any questions about them...

We are DONE.

I will not speak with you again.
I might MOCK something you said but
we will have no "discussion" ever again.

Be sure to look for me when I am "changed" in the
"twinkling of an eye"... because I will be watching you.

-----

 

[FreeGrace2]

You said:
The so-called 2 groups in the church are illogical, irrational and unreasonable.

I will be sure to tell JESUS that you think that He is
"irrational and unreasonable" because it is JESUS (not me)
that said the church consists of both saved "wheat" and
unsaved "tares".

No He didn't.

You see child, when you MOCK ME you are really
MOCKING GOD because I am only repeating what HE said:

Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The [Christian] kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man
which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept,
his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat,
and went his way. But when the blade [wheat] was sprung up,
and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the
servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst
not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath
it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The
servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather
them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares,
ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together
until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the
reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in
bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

And not a word about any "church" in this text. It is only your wild imagination working way overtime.

How anyone comes to the conclusion that "kingdom of heaven" could EVER refer to the church is beyond me.

You said
There are only 2 kinds of people, whether in or out of a church.
Saved and unsaved.

So you think an unsaved "tare" in the Christian church
is the SAME as a Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic,
Humanist, Pagan and Satanist. Really?

I can't imagine why this is so hard for you to comprehend. You admitted that your second and third "group" both end up in the lake of fire. So that PROVES there is no difference between them. Both are unsaved. Unbelievers.

You think a "Christian" is the SAME as a non-Christian?
That is a remarkable sample of cognitive dissonance.

Well, the cognitive dissonance is resonating quite strongly in yourself. You have the absurd notion that an unsaved person in a church is a "Christian". That is really beyond absurd.

You said:
But since you persist, please tell me the eternal destiny of EACH
of your 2 so-called groups in the church. Please.

Seriously? You do not know the GOSPEL teaches the
saved "wheat" in the church go to eternal life with God
and the unsaved "tares" in the church go into the Lake of Fire?

Well, here's your problem. There are NO "unsaved Christians". Why do you think that everyone in a church are "Christians" anyway?

The ONLY reason a person ends up in the lake of fire is because their name is not in the book of life, per Rev 20:15. Every Christian has been given the gift of eternal life by Jesus, per John 10:28. So your theories are totally unbiblical.

This is such a basic and essential element of the Gospel
that it is AMAZING that you would not know this.

What I know is that unbelievers will go to the lake of fire. And none of them are Christians. It's just amazing that you deny this.

You said:
I'm still waiting for your explanation of how the unsaved in the church are different than the unsaved out of the church.

I have explained this to you MULTIPLE times.
Please do not ask this question again:

There is no difference. Unsaved is unsaved regardless of where they may be found.

The DIFFERENCE between the two groups is:
(1) One is Christian
(2) The other is Non-Christian

This is just delirious. There is no such thing as an unsaved Christian.

But you seem blissfully unaware of that fact. A Christian is, BY DEFINITION, a saved person. Your claims are neither reasonable, or rational.

If you do not understand the DIFFERENCE between
a "Christian" and a Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist,
Agnostic, Humanist, Pagan, Satanist, etc...

Of course I do. But it's YOU who do not understand what a Christian is.

Then (respectfully) you really should not be on a
"Christian" forum because THAT is the FIRST THING
Christians learn...

It is those who claim that there are unsaved Christians who should not be on this forum.

You said:
And what is the eternal destiny of each of the unsaved?

(1) The unsaved Christian goes into the Lake of Fire.

This is just bizarre opinion. There is no such thing. By DEFINITION.

(2) The unsaved NON-Christian goes into the Lake of Fire.

Do you really think that repeating yourself somehow makes your claim true?

Now... before you embarrass yourself again... remember
the unsaved Jew goes into the Lake of Fire but that
DOES NOT mean that a Jew and Christian are
the same group of people. Jew does NOT equal Christian.

Well, you just keep on embarrassing yourself over and over by your ridiculous claim that there are unsaved Christians.

Again... just like a CHRISTIAN is NOT the same group
as a Moslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist,
Pagan, Satanist, etc.

Exactly. A Christian is one who has believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and possesses eternal life, and shall never perish. No Christian will EVER end up in the lake of fire.

To claim otherwise is totally unbiblical.

Let me see if I can HELP your cognitive dissonance on this.
An unsaved man goes into the Lake of Fire and
An unsaved woman goes into the Lake of Fire
BUT that does not mean that man = woman
they are TWO separate-and-distinct groups.

The cognitive dissonance is the claim that a Christian can be unsaved. That is delirious.

I will NOT explain this fact to you again.
So please do not ask again.
-------

I don't need to. Your mask has already come off. You are so far from the Bible it is you who needs help.

 

[FreeGrace2]

------------

You said:
And NO Christian will EVER go to the lake of fire. Ever. That is absurd.

I will be sure to tell JESUS that you think He is a liar:

Mat 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, [a Christian]
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the
will of my Father which is in heaven. [the saved "wheat"]
Many [unsaved Christians] will say to me in that day,
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in
thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What makes you think anyone in that crowd were Christians? Jesus specifically told them that He NEVER knew them. Jesus knows His own. They never believed in Him because their sole appeal for entering heaven was based on what THEY did, not faith in what He did. But apparently you are unaware of this difference.

You said:
Please explain to me what Jesus said and meant in John 10:28.
This will clarify things.

Joh 10:27-28
My sheep [the saved "wheat"] hear my voice, and I know them,
and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they
shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Jesus' sheep are saved, believers, headed for heaven. You may keep "wheat" and "tares" out of the discussion.

You said:
Since there is no difference between group 2 and 3 regarding their eternal destiny, this proves that there is no difference between them.

Okay... if you want to PRETEND there is NO DIFFERENCE
between a Christian and a NON-Christian... pretend just
as HARD as you want.

It's you who are pretending that there is are unsaved Christians. Worse than ludicrous.

You said:
I fully understand just how unbiblical your notions are. There is only ONE Gospel.

Gal 1:8-9
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which we have preached
unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now
again, If any man preach any OTHER GOSPEL unto you than
that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Jesus, all OT writers, and all NT writers preached ONLY ONE GOSPEL.

Secondly:
Do you really think the Gospel of the Pre-Flood saints was
the SAME GOSPEL as preached by the Jewish saints?

Do you really think the Gospel of the Jewish saints was
the SAME GOSPEL as preached by Christian saints?

Do you really think the Gospel of Christian saints was
the SAME GOSPEL as preached by Great Tribulation saints?

EACH separate-and-distinct "Kingdom of Heaven"
had it's own unique Gospel because God revealed
NEW TREASURE to each generation of saints.

I absolutely do. And this proves that you are totally confused about the gospel.

I recommend that you read Paul's own testimony. He referenced the OT regarding what he preached in his ministry. And he said we wasn't saying anything more than "Moses and the prophets". Don't you ever read the NT?

 

[FreeGrace2]

you think the Pre-Flood Kingdom was eternal... LOL
You think the Jewish Kingdom was eternal... LOL
You think the Christian Kingdom was eternal... LOL
You think the Great Tribulation Kingdom was eternal... LOL

I think your views are delirious and absurd. There are no such "kingdoms". But you may think so if you want to.

The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is. That means heaven.

You clearly do not have a CLUE about the "Kingdoms of Heaven"
which JESUS specifically NAMED

Said the one who claims there are unsaved Christians. Talk about having no clue. lol

... and you obviously just DO NOT CARE what the Bible says. Good luck with that.

First, your opinion is irrational. Second, I don't need luck. I have the truth of Scripture, unlike yourself.

Since you (1) lie about answering my questions and
(2) Refuse to address SCRIPTURES

I've done both. Your fantasy idea about your 5 kingdoms is laughable. And I do address your verses. I keep pointing out the words you use don't occur in any of the verses you quote.

and (3) pretend to know something about the "Kingdoms of Heaven"
which Jesus specifically NAMED... but REFUSE to answer any questions about them...

Where did Jesus refer to any "pre-flood kingdom"?. Or any of the other so-called kingdoms you mentioned?

We are DONE.

I will not speak with you again.
I might MOCK something you said but
we will have no "discussion" ever again.

Well, lucky me. It's impossible to have a rational discussion with irrational people.

Be sure to look for me when I am "changed" in the
"twinkling of an eye"... because I will be watching you.
-----

This kind of self importance notions are quite telling.

 

[5thKingdom]

The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is.
That means heaven.

----------------


You said:
The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is.
That means heaven.


So you really think the EVENTS below happen in heaven?
That is just hilarious. You think there are TARES in heaven!
You think there is a separation of "wheat and tares" in heaven!
You think the Final Harvest gathers people FROM heaven!
You actually think Christ has "enemies" in heaven!


Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The Kingdom of Heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came
and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But
when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then
appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder
came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in
thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them,
An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt
thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay;
lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat
with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in
the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.


You said:
The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is.
That means heaven.


You think the EVENTS below happen in heaven!
You think heaven is a place where there are good and bad fish!
You think there there will be "wicked" existing in heaven!
You think the Final Harvest is FROM heaven!


Mat 13:47-50
Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a net, that was cast
into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full,
they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into
vessels, but cast the bad away. So shall it be at the end of the
world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from
among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire:
there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


You said:
The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is.
That means heaven.


You think the EVENTS below happen in heaven!
You think there are "wise virgins" and "foolish virgins" in heaven!
You think the "foolish virgins" are told to go to others in heaven!
You think some have no "oil" [Holy Spirit] in heaven!
You think the Final Harvest is FROM heaven!


Mat 25:1-13
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto
ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the
bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight
there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out
to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps
are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be
not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell,
and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
and the door was shut.


You said:
Said the one who claims there are unsaved Christians.
Talk about having no clue. lol


Mat 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast
out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And
then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart
from me, ye that work iniquity.


You said:
It's you who are pretending that there is are unsaved Christians.
Worse than ludicrous.


Luk 13:25-28
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath
shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock
at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer
and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye
begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and
thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you,
I know you not whence ye are; depart from me,
all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.


You said:
And not a word about any "church" in this text.
It is only your wild imagination working way overtime.


LOL... where do you imagine all these EVENTS ocurred?
In the ETERNAL HEAVEN? In the "New Jerusalem"?
That is just hilarious.


Mat 13:24
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which
sowed good seed in his field:


Mat 13:31
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed,
which a man took, and sowed in his field:


Mat 13:33
Another parable spake he unto them;
The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman
took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.


Mat 13:44
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field;
the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof
goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.


Mat 13:45-46
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man,
seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of
great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.


Mat 13:47
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:


Mat 13:52
Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed
unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an
householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure
things new and old.


You said:
The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is.
That means heaven.


So you REALLY think the events below happen in heaven?
That is your conclusion after careful STUDY?
LOL


You said
Where did Jesus refer to any "pre-flood kingdom"?.
Or any of the other so-called kingdoms you mentioned?


But I have already SHOWN you the Scriptures many times.
WHY do you think you cannot "see"? Do you think it
might be because you were not MEANT to "see"?


(1) The Pre-Flood "Kingdom of Heaven" is not named


(2) The Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" is NAMED by Christ
Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king,
which made a marriage for his son,


(3) The Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" is NAMED by Christ...
see the verses above:
Mat 13:24 / Mat 13:31 / Mat 13:33 / Mat 13:44
Mat 13:45-46 / Mat 13:47 / Mat 13:52


(4) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" is NAMED by Christ..

Mat 25:1-13
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto
ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the
bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight
there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out
to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps
are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be
not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell,
and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
and the door was shut.


(5) The ETERNAL "Kingdom of Heaven" is NAMED by Christ
in Matthew chapters 5 and 7 and 8 and 19


Mat 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 5:10
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into
the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.


Mat 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west,
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
in the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:23
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you,
That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not,
to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.


Listen... you have SEEN all the SCRIPTURES before.
You have decided to REJECT and intentionally IGNORE
the Scriptures because the do not "fit" into your gospel.
It was NEVER the intention of God that all men understand
these Biblical mysteries.


Dan 12:4
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book,
even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,
and knowledge shall be increased.


Dan 12:8-10
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way,
Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand;
but the wise shall understand.


...

 

[FreeGrace2]

----------------
You said:
The kingdom of HEAVEN refers to God's kingdom. Where God is.
That means heaven.

So you really think the EVENTS below happen in heaven?
That is just hilarious.

Quite the silly question. The "events below" refer to Jesus' parables. Of course they don't happen in heaven. But it seems you don't have any clue as to what a parable is, or what it is for.

You think there are TARES in heaven!

More silliness. Of course there are no unsaved people in heaven.

Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

The claim that there are unsaved Christians is beyond the pale. That is so far off track that it's worse than absurd.

Those who would make that claim obviously have no idea what a Christian even is.

Acts 11:26 - Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Do you understand what "first" means in v.26? It means the word was NEVER used before when Barnabas and Saul went to Antioch. So much for your notions about Jesus talking about the Christian Church during His life on earth.

You need to explain how a person who is a Christian can be unsaved. Maybe you need to explain HOW a person becomes a Christian.

We know what King Agrippa said to Paul when the gospel was presented to the king:

Acts 26:28 - Then Agrippa said to Paul, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?”

So, how do you "persuade a person to be a Christian"?

And, if you can do that, how do you know whether you've persuaded this person to be a wheat or tare kind of Christian?

 

[5thKingdom]

Acts 11:26 - Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Do you understand what "first" means in v.26?

Two things:

(1) I do not want to be disrespectful.
For you to pretend a "parable" does not have
MEANING and talks about EVENTS on earth.
Just makes it impossible for me to take you
seriously. I think you would say ANYTHING
to reject what Jesus NAMED.

(2) You are only fooling your self when you intentionally
CONFLATE the issue of WHEN the disciples were first called
"Christians" and WHAT was the subject of what Jesus NAMED
as the "Kingdom of Heaven"..

Since we see from the verses that the EVENTS happening
in these "Kingdoms of Heaven" are EVENTS occurring on earth.
You are simply not serious when you pretend it's not earthly.

.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Two things:

(1) I do not want to be disrespectful.
For you to pretend a "parable" does not have
MEANING and talks about EVENTS on earth.

You just keep on misunderstanding what I post. I never even hinted at such silliness.

Just makes it impossible for me to take you
seriously. I think you would say ANYTHING
to reject what Jesus NAMED.

Moe silliness and nonsense. I haven't rejected anything Jesus said or named. I DO however reject all of your totally unbibilcal ideas.

(2) You are only fooling your self when you intentionally
CONFLATE the issue of WHEN the disciples were first called
"Christians" and WHAT was the subject of what Jesus NAMED
as the "Kingdom of Heaven"..

All the conflation is on yourself. As I have previously noted.

Since we see from the verses that the EVENTS happening
in these "Kingdoms of Heaven" are EVENTS occurring on earth.

There are NO literal "events" in any parable. That's part of your problem.

You are simply not serious when you pretend it's not earthly

You are so confused. Of course EVERY parable is an EARTHLY story that teaches a heavenly principle.

But they are not literal events, if you presume so.

Since you charge me with not being serious, how about yourself? I asked a very simple question at the end of my last post.

"So, how do you "persuade a person to be a Christian"?

And, if you can do that, how do you know whether you've persuaded this person to be a wheat or tare kind of Christian?"

This is a very important question. I seriously doubt that you know how one becomes a Christian, given your notion that there are unsaved Christians, a claim that you have NOT proven at all.

So, if you yourself are serious, please answer my question.

 

[5thKingdom]

There are NO literal "events" in any parable.
That's part of your problem.

-----------

You said:
There are NO literal "events" in any parable.
That's part of your problem.


That is just so hilarious you made me laugh out loud.
No literal events in the parable talking about the spread
of the Christian Gospel... which END with the Final Harvest?
That is just hilarious.


Mat 13:24-30
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,
The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed
good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came
and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit,
then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder
came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy
field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them,
An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou
then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest
while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with
them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together
first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:36-43
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went
into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare
unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said
unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the
kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the
end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore
the tares are gathered and burned in the fire;
so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall
send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom
all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall
cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and
gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the
sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear,
let him hear.


You said:
There are NO literal "events" in any parable.
That's part of your problem.


Right, no literal events talking about the LAST SAINTS
on earth... the Final Harvest (when the Door is Shut)
and the complaining of all the unsaved Christian TARES
(called the "foolish virgins") AFTER the Final Harvest.
Keep telling yourself that Jesus was telling fairy tales
maybe that will comfort you.

Read what happens in the LAST "Kingdom of Heaven"
also known as the Great Tribulation and the Revelation Beast
and Daniel's Fourth Beast and the Reign of the Anti-Christ and
Satan's "Little Season". Read and LEARN the EVENTS of the end.


Mat 25:1-13
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins,
which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise
took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom
tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was
a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough
for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came;
and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:
and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins,
saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily
I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know
neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Of course Jesus ALSO talked about the time AFTER the
"Door was shut in other passages of the Bible... if you
know anything about Scripture.

OH NO... this was not even a "parable"... just a prophesy.
Oh well... that might be a PROBLEM for people who pretend
that "parables" are not also "prophesies"


Luk 13:25
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath
shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock
at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer
and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye
begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou
hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know
you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

.....

 

[FreeGrace2]

-----------

You said:
There are NO literal "events" in any parable.
That's part of your problem.


That is just so hilarious you made me laugh out loud.
No literal events in the parable talking about the spread
of the Christian Gospel... which END with the Final Harvest?
That is just hilarious.

Again, you are showing your total lack of comprehension about parables. By "literal" most people automatically understand that means "actual" or "real".

Parables are not real events. They did not literally (really) occur.

Regarding the rest of your post, there is no reason to read or respond to them. I already have.

And why would anyone take seriously anyone else who claims that there are unsaved Christians? That is just beyond absurd.

I've asked how one becomes a Christian, and your lack of response reveals your lack of understanding of this very basic knowledge about the Bible.

You are not to be taken seriously. Ever.