20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[sovereigngrace]

Is the judgment seat of Christ different from the Great White Throne?

No! There is one king on one throne who is coming back to raise and judge mankind. The great white throne is mentioned once in scripture and never once described as “the great white throne of the wicked” - as many of us were taught. It is not limited by spiritual status. It refer to mankind. It correlates with every other second coming passage. It shows coming of the Lord followed by the introduction of the new heavens and new earth.

Revelation 20 goes right back to Christ glorious (first) resurrection. It is a record of God's dealing with the devil. It is a different subject matter. It culminates with the climatic coming of Christ. The wicked are all destroyed in that recapitulation, this agrees with every other Second Coming passage. It is the end.

Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1-5: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away (or departed); and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away (or departed). And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”

Here is Christ returning enthroned, whereupon the general judgment occurs. This lines up with multiple Scripture of a general judgment at the second coming.

 

[BABerean2]

Yes better things, for Abel and the others in Heb. 11 looked for a city, however we, the Body of Christ have a great dominion than that in the highest heaven. (Heb. 11: 40)

Now the Heavenly Jerusalem is of two parts - the upper and the lower.

The upper is Mount Zion where the Body of Christ will rule. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23) while the lower part is the city which comes down from God. (Rev. 21: 2)

If you can show the words "upper" and "lower" in the text, someone here might believe you.

Otherwise, you are quoting yourself instead of the Bible.

.

 

[BABerean2]

What we should know is that 2 Thessalonians 1-6-10, is about the Day of the Lords vengeance and fiery wrath, as described in over 100 other prophesies. It is the Sixth Seal event, years before Jesus Returns.
Proved by how the Lord is only reveled to His own after that Day.

Also by Revelation 21:1, the NH, NE comes AFTER the Millennium.

Are you going to tell us it is about the sun, instead of the Son?

.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Well those comments are scriptural and it is up to you to show differently. It is very easy to say `you have funny ideas` but not doing any work to show why.

We are OF Abraham`s seed, and that is CHRIST.

That is the only seed that is accepted with God and can be considered God’s chosen people. Anyone else is considered as a child of the devil. They will ultimately end up in hell if they do not receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

 

[BABerean2]

Satan is not 'bound' now.

Are the wicked angels bound in some way in the scripture below?

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In what way are they bound?
.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I wasn`t twisting, it`s just that you have not thought through the consequences of what you said. We, the Body of Christ will NOT be at the Great White Throne judgment for those people will be judged (life or death) by THEIR WORKS!!!!! (Rev. 20: 13)

We have been saved by the precious blood of Jesus and our works can never save us.

People who have never heard of Jesus will be judged according to there works as it shows whether they have lived rightly according to their God given conscience.

Please do not speak on my behalf. You do not know what you are talking about. No Christian is judged on their salvation on judgment day. Please read what I write, not what you have been taught by your teachers. You also have absolutely no grasp of the fact that we will all give account for our works. This relates to our rewards. We are accountable beings. We are expected to be obedient. There are different rewards for the believer - 30, 60 and 100-fold.

Pretrib writes their own Bible and makes it up as they go. Your upper and lower heaven invention is another example.

You have carefully avoided the most basic question to see if you actually have one single proof text in scripture that teaches a rapture of the church, followed by a seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming. If you can’t Show that then you have no right to call Darbyism biblical, but rather a man-made invention.

 

[Marilyn C]

If you can show the words "upper" and "lower" in the text, someone here might believe you.

Otherwise, you are quoting yourself instead of the Bible.

.

Mount Zion, (Heb. 12:22) does NOT come down, but the city (Heb. 12: 22) does. (Rev. 21: 2)

 

[Marilyn C]

That is the only seed that is accepted with God and can be considered God’s chosen people. Anyone else is considered as a child of the devil. They will ultimately end up in hell if they do not receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

So true. Note that many people are covered by Christ`s sacrifice but they did not know of Him but lived a life according to their conscience, (Rev. 20: 12) and others although not knowing of Jesus had faith in the promise of God for a city as their inheritance.

 

[Marilyn C]

Please do not speak on my behalf. You do not know what you are talking about. No Christian is judged on their salvation on judgment day. Please read what I write, not what you have been taught by your teachers. You also have absolutely no grasp of the fact that we will all give account for our works. This relates to our rewards. We are accountable beings. We are expected to be obedient. There are different rewards for the believer - 30, 60 and 100-fold.

Pretrib writes their own Bible and makes it up as they go. Your upper and lower heaven invention is another example.

You have carefully avoided the most basic question to see if you actually have one single proof text in scripture that teaches a rapture of the church, followed by a seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming. If you can’t Show that then you have no right to call Darbyism biblical, but rather a man-made invention.

You are referring to pre-Body of Christ revelation there.

So please tell me where Lucifer was cast out from to where?

And you realise that no (one) scripture is of its self a doctrine.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Mount Zion, (Heb. 12:22) does NOT come down, but the city (Heb. 12: 22) does. (Rev. 21: 2)

Same single city that the elect look for and which arrives at the climactic coming of Christ. There is no mention in scripture of a upper and lower city. That is a human invention.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You are referring to pre-Body of Christ revelation there.

So please tell me where Lucifer was cast out from to where?

And you realise that no (one) scripture is of its self a doctrine.

By your avoidance it seems like you know what the rest of us know: Pretrib is not in Scripture. If I’m wrong, please show me where the Bible teaches a rapture of the church, followed by a seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming?

 

[jgr]

So are you saying, `everyone before Christ has no inheritance?`

1 Corinthians 15
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Since it is in Christ that all are made alive, this unquestionably includes the saints before Christ.

All who are in Christ are joint-heirs, i.e. joint-heirs of His inheritance, with Him.

Romans 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ...

 

[sovereigngrace]

Satan is not 'bound' now. He is able to do whatever he wants with people who fail to put on the armor of God. Ephesians 6:11, 1 Peter 5:8-9
Obviously too, Satan can actually make people believe they are doing the work of God to murder the saints. But He will be bound after Jesus Returns, Revelation 20:1-3

You need to stop avoiding the Scriptures that expose Premil.

Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (or) deo (Strong’s 1210) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

Christ came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

The “strong man’s house” mentioned here is the kingdom of darkness. The “goods” that are "plundered" are people that were previously held in bondage to that kingdom. New Testament scholar George E. Ladd comments on Christ’s words about Satan: “his `goods' are men and women under his evil influence. However, he has not been left in peace to manage his affairs. A stronger, Jesus, has assailed and overcome him.”

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (or deo Strong’s 1210) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and deo (or) bound him a thousand years (or a long time), And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”

Ok, let us establish a few absolutes here. (1) This is talking about a binding long before the Second Coming. It is speaking of a time 2,000 years ago. (2) This is referring to Satan and his minions – most theologians seem to be in agreement here. (3) This is talking about Satan's dwelling which relates to his abode (his “house”) and his possessions (his “goods”). (4) The binding is expressly spiritual and relates to the demonic realm. (5) This attributes the presence of the kingdom of heaven in all its power to the damaging and curtailing of the power of Satan's kingdom.

Jesus said in the corresponding passage in Luke 11:20-22, “if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.”

Here, Christ highlights the Sovereign power of the kingdom of God and reveals how the “strong man” – Satan – and his kingdom of devils can only be defeated by One that is stronger than them, namely Himself – the Son of God. As we examine the gospels we discover, Satan was stripped everywhere that Christ confronted him. The Lord entered the devil’s house and took authority over him and spoilt His goods. Previously, Satan's grip on the nations was so strong and so embedded that the truth of God's Word could not penetrate through. The devil overwhelmingly controlled the Gentile nations.

Christ said: “When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace.” This was a direct reference to the unchallenged power of Satan over the nations in the Old Testament. The vast territory of the Gentile nations was under his evil control. He governed the nations at will and operated in an unmolested environment – thus “his goods” were said to be “in peace.”

Satan’s wicked grip over the nations was loosened by the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Many millions were liberated by His message of hope and liberation. In fact, if anything was representative of Christ’s ministry it was the binding of the works of darkness and the deliverance of the afflicted. Christ defeated the power of Satan and all his minions with His sinless life, His vicarious death and His victorious resurrection and therefore wholly fulfilled His earthly assignment. The advance of the kingdom of God therefore has seen the pushing back of the devil’s frontline throughout the nations. It is not that he can’t still create havoc and deceive people; it is that he can’t hinder the triumphant advance of the Gospel throughout the world.

 

[keras]

Are you going to tell us it is about the sun, instead of the Son?

Are you going to continue on in your errors?
What you do is not discussion or proof of your beliefs, just useless opinion.

The Bible prophets are quite clear; the Lord will use the sun to fulfill literally and totally all the prophesies about His forthcoming Day of vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-4

 

[keras]

You need to stop avoiding the Scriptures that expose Premil.

You need to stop your promotion of the wrong and deceitful theory of Amill.

Jesus did conquer Satan at the Cross, but he has been allowed to test people in this Church age. That is plain to everyone.
Then; only when Jesus Returns, will Satan be bound for the 1000 years of the reign of King Jesus. After that, he will be again allowed t deceive people, but then he is finally disposed of. revelation 20:10

 

[sovereigngrace]

You need to stop your promotion of the wrong and deceitful theory of Amill.

Jesus did conquer Satan at the Cross, but he has been allowed to test people in this Church age. That is plain to everyone.
Then; only when Jesus Returns, will Satan be bound for the 1000 years of the reign of King Jesus. After that, he will be again allowed t deceive people, but then he is finally disposed of. revelation 20:10

Jesus didn’t just conquer Satan, He “bound” him. This totally negates the Premil argument.

Also, there is no such thing as “church age.” That is another invented Premil term. The Church can be found in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Your fight seems to be with Scripture.

 

[Bobber]

Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and deo (or) bound him a thousand years (or a long time), And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”

No it wasn't. 2 Cor 4 states of whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not.....that's talking about in the time Paul was writing this long after the ascension of Christ. If Satan's power has blinded them then he's deceived them it's all the same!

 

[sovereigngrace]

No it wasn't. 2 Cor 4 states of whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them that believe not.....that's talking about in the time Paul was writing this long after the ascension of Christ. If Satan's power has blinded them then he's deceived them it's all the same!

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

Satan cannot stop the enlightenment of the Gentiles as before. The restraint simply relates to the Gospel advance to the Gentiles. They were once enveloped in darkness before the first resurrection, now a bright light has been shining for 2000 years saving countless millions throughout the nations. And there is absolutely nothing Satan can do prevent the invasion of his territory. He cannot deceive "the nations" (Gentiles) because we now have the truth as a result of the church expansion into the nations.

We should note in Rev 20:3, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos.

The Church currently exists in its heavenly authority procured for them by Christ who has already defeated every enemy. The introduction of the kingdom of God through Christ’s earthly ministry saw the beginning of Christ’s assault upon the global control of Satan. It is through the finished work of Calvary that the Church now walks in victory. The responsibility of the Church is to simply enter into the reality of that great eternal work by faith. We reside on a far higher spiritual plane than this sin-cursed earth, namely in the throne-room of God. Abiding there ensures we walk by His will, His commands and His blueprint rather than our own carnal desires.

 

[keras]

We reside on a far higher spiritual plane than this sin-cursed earth, namely in the throne-room of God. Abiding there ensures we walk by His will, His commands and His blueprint rather than our own carnal desires.

You are obviously too good for this sin cursed world.
Interesting that Gods Throne room has internet!

 

[Bobber]

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

You can't have it both ways my friend. You can't have it he's universally bound as Rev 20 states he will in the future but then jump back and say yeah but he's not really powerless now, and well he has some power.....so he has some power to deceive? Rev 20:3 states at that future time he won't. And look what you did to some of these scriptures,

Matt 12 & Mark 3 had to do with different times Jesus took authority over the devil with certain individuals.....that's not a universal binding IN FACT Jesus also stated in their life times (of the ones he delivered) the devil could come back 7 fold. Matt 12: 45

Then you have Lk 10: 18,19 where Jesus said he saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightning. Exactly. But notice he said he saw this.....before....before his resurrection when he was ministering on the earth.....It seem you're implying by having this verse in your list that this event took place when Jesus arose from the dead. And yet the Lk 10 verse was in response to the disciples using the Name of Jesus years before the resurrection.

Satan cannot stop the enlightenment of the Gentiles as before.

He couldn't stop the enlightenment before the resurrection of Christ either if the culture we're willing to yield and recognize the God of heaven. And there were sometimes they'd do that.

"Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you."I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end. Daniel 6: 25.26