If Jesus died for the world why does most of scripture say the opposite?

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The parable of the net states that the kingdom of heaven is like a net. It doesn’t say that it becomes a net at the end of the age. I just used it as an illustration as to how drawing people to him doesn’t equate to salvation.
The kingdom of God is like a lot of things, depending on what part and time you are talking about in the Kingdom. There are lots of Kingdom parables, with this one talking about the judgement time at the end of life here on earth. Christians are in the Kingdom, heaven is in he kingdom, the church is in the Kingdom, angels are in the kingdom, and life after the earth passes away is in the kingdom, but any one parable does not incorporate the entire Kingdom.
The fishing net best fits and may only fit the end judgement in the kingdom parable. The banquet invitation might better fit those coming into the church part of the kingdom
 
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agapelove

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Basically, your argument is “I believe Christ died for all, so that justifies my use of Romans 5:8, even if the context doesn’t support it.”

The context of Romans 5 is how Jesus is the new Adam. Adam literally means humanity.
 
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So Romans 5 justifies our response to the OP quite well.
How? I could say that it justifies my view. You wouldn’t accept that as an argument (rightly). So I can’t just accept your assertion.
 
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agapelove

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How? I could say that it justifies my view. You wouldn’t accept that as an argument (rightly). So I can’t just accept your assertion.

You asked what in the context leads us to conclude Jesus died for all of humanity and if Jesus is Adam 2 then that is our conclusion. Three people have tried to explain this to you already so if you still can't "accept" our assertions then that sounds like a personal problem.
 
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The kingdom of God is like a lot of things, depending on what part and time you are talking about in the Kingdom. There are lots of Kingdom parables, with this one talking about the judgement time at the end of life here on earth. Christians are in the Kingdom, heaven is in he kingdom, the church is in the Kingdom, angels are in the kingdom, and life after the earth passes away is in the kingdom, but any one parable does not incorporate the entire Kingdom.
The fishing net best fits and may only fit the end judgement in the kingdom parable. The banquet invitation might better fit those coming into the church part of the kingdom
The parable of the banquet invitation is better looked at as if Israel - Gods first invitation-refused the call to salvation and then the uninvited -Gentiles- were called in. The parable of the net has two components. First the net is cast to catch fish and then when it is full it is dragged up to shore to sort the fish. The end of the age is where the net is dragged up to shore. It’s better related to the drawing of men mentioned because even though it does say Jesus will draw all men to him, not all will be saved.
 
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Oldmantook

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I appreciate your taking the time to explain this further! I wished to have responded earlier but have been tied up with other things.

Both Philippians 2:10-11 and Romans 14:11 cite Isaiah 45:23, so I think it is worth examining the latter text in its context.

“Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, you survivors of the nations! They have no knowledge who carry about their wooden idols, and keep on praying to a god that cannot save. Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ “Only in the LORD, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength; to him shall come and be ashamed all who were incensed against him. In the LORD all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.” - Isaiah 45:20-25 (ESV)

In these verses, the prophet is speaking to all the nations (v20) and telling them to assemble (v20), come (v20), draw near (v20), declare and present their case (v21), and turn and be saved (v22) by the God of Israel. Isaiah declares “every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance” (v23), but does not require, in context, that such bowing and swearing be willfully penitent submission to the Lord. In fact, he goes on to distinguish between those who are the enemies of God (“incensed against him”) and those who are the elect of God (“offspring of Israel”), the former being ashamed by their rebellion and the latter being justified and glorified. Isaiah is prophesying of the supremacy and authority of God over all things.

Paul quotes this passage in two places. In Philippians he writes:

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. - Philippians 2:5-11 (ESV)

That Christ condescended from heaven, took on flesh, obeyed the Father’s will, and bore the curse of sin and death on the cross was the means by which he was exalted to the right hand of the Father. In his exaltation he rules as the King of kings and Lord of lords so that all will ultimately bow and confess that truth to the glory of God. Paul uses these Scriptures to show that the Jesus is the Lord (Yahweh) which Isaiah had declared. He does not quote Isaiah to demonstrate the eschatological state of all people who have ever lived, but to show the divinity of Christ and his supremacy over all of creation. He is Lord of all, and all will confess this truth whether they are his enemy or his friend.

In Romans, Paul again quotes the prophet:

For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. - Romans 14:9-13 (ESV)

Here he is addressing the Roman saints as to Jewish customs. Should the Roman Christians adhere to these customs or not? To that end, Paul tells his brethren not to judge each other so as not to be a stumbling block for those who are weak in faith. He quotes Isaiah to show them that the Lord will ultimately act as judge of all. They are to show brotherly love for each other because they are accountable before him. It does not appear to me that Paul is using Isaiah here to point to any kind of universal reconciliation. Rather he quotes the words of the prophet to demonstrate that the Lord has sole authority to finally judge all those who stand before him, not that all who bow and confess will be regarded as saints.

Finally, John’s vision in Revelation:

And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.” Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped. - Revelation 5:8-14 (ESV)

The doxologies within this section (v9-10, 12, 13) show that the Lamb, and he alone, is worthy of all blessing, honor, and glory. In this setting, these verses point to the redemptive work of the triune God through Christ and the undeniable recognition of him as King of creation. I do not think that the doxologies are soteriologic but Christologic. That is, they proclaim the glory of God in redemptive history through Jesus Christ.



I do have a question to which I am curious to hear your thoughts. In light of your interpretation of the passages referenced in your post, would you hold that Satan and his angels will eventually be reconciled to God? For example, in Philippians, Paul states that every knee in heaven, on earth, and under the earth will bow. Would you consider this inclusive of the spiritual realm and thus indicative of the ultimate redemption of the fallen spirits?
I'll respond to your last question first. If all means ALL then I would have to concede that even Satan and his angels will be eventually reconciled to God although I'm not comfortable with that idea but I think consistency is requisite.

The basic question boils down to this: Is God sovereign? If God, the creator of all things is omniscient and omnipotent among other things, can He accomplish whatever he desires/wills? I think the answer to those questions is yes. If this be true then we need to scrutinize the scriptures to determine what is God's will and purpose for His creation and use that as the basis and foundation for formulating our doctrinal views, in this case regarding soteriology. You believe that the doxologies are not soteriologic but Christologic. I believe that to be a logical fallacy (either-or) argument as it is not one other the other, but both. Because the Lamb is worthy of all honor, glory, etc., all will thus bow down to Him. The former does not negate the latter.

It seems to me that we have put the cart before the horse. We acknowledge that God loves the whole world and wants all men to be saved yet we deny that His attributes are able to accomplish His stated purpose. What is His stated purpose?
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col 1:19-20
Since reconciliation is God's stated goal, the whole of Scripture as well as our beliefs must align itself with God's stated goal. Our current, popular soteriological beliefs do not conform with God' stated purpose as the popular belief is that only a minority of souls, and a small minority at that, will ultimately be reconciled with God. Something is wrong with this picture.

Regarding the Isaiah passage. When do you suppose this takes place? "Survivors of the nations" is a reference to the future when Jesus returns to earth at his 2nd coming as described in Matt 25:31-46. This passage refers the the sheep and goat nations/gentiles who survived the tribulation and are still alive at Jesus' return. The surviving gentiles/sheep who did good to the brethren during the tribulation are allowed to live in the Millennial kingdom as their reward (v.34) while the surviving gentiles/goats who did bad to the brethren during the tribulation are sent to the lake of fire (v.41). The goats here are the ones referenced to in Isa 45:24 as being "ashamed all who were incensed against him." Note also that Isa 45:25 states that all of Israel shall be JUSTIFIED and shall glory." All means ALL.
Thus the purpose of the Millennial age is to give the surviving gentiles the opportunity to turn to God and be saved (Isa 45:22). It is also the age of time when all of Israel will be saved as prophesied in such verses as Rom 11:26-27; Jer 31:33-34; Zech 8:7-8.

Thus we see God working out his purpose to save and reconcile all to Himself accomplished through ages of time with each age have his specific plan for different groups of people.
 
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Hammster

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You asked what in the context leads us to conclude Jesus died for all of humanity and if Jesus is Adam 2 then that is our conclusion. Three people have tried to explain this to you already so if you still can't "accept" our assertions then that sounds like a personal problem.
Oh. Okay. Then the same way Adam’s sin is imputed to those in him, Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to those in Him.

Is that correct?
 
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Then let’s do it this way. Is believing the gospel a good thing?

Let's put it this way, since only a few out of the mass of humanity will ever be saved, how many good things do the unsaved do every day:

Working for a living
Raising their families
Loving their wives
Smiling at someone
Helping someone cross the street
Taking someone to the hospital that is injured.

And hundreds of other things the unsaved do everyday.

Matthew 7:11 (WEB)
11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

What does that prove?

Now, when you are ready go to the Scriptures to see what God has revealed instead of using your human pride, then you will more likely able to understand spiritual things.
 
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agapelove

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Oh. Okay. Then the same way Adam’s sin is imputed to those in him, Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to those in Him.

Is that correct?

You tell me.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so as by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
 
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Hammster

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Let's put it this way, since only a few out of the mass of humanity will ever be saved, how many good things do the unsaved do every day:

Working for a living
Raising their families
Loving their wives
Smiling at someone
Helping someone cross the street
Taking someone to the hospital that is injured.

And hundreds of other things the unsaved do everyday.

Matthew 7:11 (WEB)
11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

What does that prove?

Now, when you are ready go to the Scriptures to see what God has revealed instead of using your human pride, then you will more likely able to understand spiritual things.
So is believing the gospel a good thing? Since you don’t have an answer, I’ll help. Yes, it is. It glorifies God.
 
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Hammster

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You tell me.

Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so as by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
You made a statement. I’m trying to see if we are on the same page. So do you agree that in the same way Adam’s sin is imputed to those in him, Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to those in Him?
 
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agapelove

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You made a statement. I’m trying to see if we are on the same page. So do you agree that in the same way Adam’s sin is imputed to those in him, Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to those in Him?

I answered your question.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so as by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Not a matter of if but when.
 
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Hammster

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I answered your question.

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so as by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

Not a matter of if but when.
Well, not everyone will be made righteous. So there must be a better understanding.
 
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So is believing the gospel a good thing? Since you don’t have an answer, I’ll help. Yes, it is. It glorifies God.

I already gave the answer. I replied the believing the Gospel pleases God, for God desires to save us, but that does not mean one is regenerated first before believing, as you have explained. You have given no evidence from Almighty God in His Word to prove your man-made logic.

I gave you Scriptures showing that we only receive the Spirit by an obedient faith.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (WEB). . . 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And only by this obedient faith does the indwelling Spirit regenerates us - a new creation.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! [Note: Lord Jesus command those who are thirsty to come and drink]
38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

We must, by faith, first deny serving the fleshly master, and then commit to follow Lord Jesus before we can ever become a new creation in Christ Jesus - that is what Baptism represents.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 (WEB) 15 He died for all, that those who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who for their sakes died and rose again. . . 17 ***Therefore (for this reason just given) if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.

Only by faithfully living and walking and reaping to the Spirit that indwells us do we receive LIFE:

Galatians 5:16-25 (WEB)
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,[a] 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-14 (WEB) 12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.

Galatians 6:7-10 (WEB) 7 Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption.
But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we don’t give up. 10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do what is good toward all men, and especially toward those who are of the household of The Faith.
 
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I already gave the answer. I replied the believing the Gospel pleases God, for God desires to save us, but that does not mean one is regenerated first before believing, as you have explained. You have given no evidence from Almighty God in His Word to prove your man-made logic.

I gave you Scriptures showing that we only receive the Spirit by an obedient faith.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are His witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (WEB). . . 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And only by this obedient faith does the indwelling Spirit regenerates us - a new creation.

John 7:37-39 (WEB)
37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! [Note: Lord Jesus command those who are thirsty to come and drink]
38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified.

We must, by faith, first deny serving the fleshly master, and then commit to follow Lord Jesus before we can ever become a new creation in Christ Jesus - that is what Baptism represents.

2 Corinthians 5:15-17 (WEB) 15 He died for all, that those who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who for their sakes died and rose again. . . 17 ***Therefore (for this reason just given) if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.

Only by faithfully living and walking and reaping to the Spirit that indwells us do we receive LIFE:

Galatians 5:16-25 (WEB)
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,[a] 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live by the Spirit, let’s also walk by the Spirit.

Romans 8:12-14 (WEB) 12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God.

Galatians 6:7-10 (WEB) 7 Don’t be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption.
But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we don’t give up. 10 So then, as we have opportunity, let us do what is good toward all men, and especially toward those who are of the household of The Faith.
For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:5-8

The unregenerate are in the flesh. The flesh cannot please God.
 
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Sure, feel free to re-interpret that text until it is more in line with your beliefs.
Universalism cannot be discussed here since it’s unorthodox. So we’d better stop now.
 
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Oh. Okay. Then the same way Adam’s sin is imputed to those in him, Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to those in Him.

Is that correct?

I think you are right that the parallell is between all men in Adam and all those who receive Christ. Still not proving limited atonement, though.
 
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