Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

[charsan]

I dont feel its wise to debate someone who is an apostate, I argue about many topic to learn about other people counter arguments and gain insight of the scriptures. If they arent using the bible, and arent believers I see no point debating.

See the problem is as if the Bible is everything but it is only one part of the Christian life. Going by the Bible only is a big reason for silly ideas such as in the OP.

 

[Danigt22]

See the problem is as if the Bible is everything but it is only one part of the Christian life. Going by the Bible only is a big reason for silly ideas such as in the OP.

Im the op, and Im looking foward to heard counter arguments.

 

[charsan]

Im the op, and Im looking foward to heard counter arguments.

You had many and poo poo them, you like the rest are not interested in counter arguments but just telling others how wrong they are and how right you are. I seen it so much hear from others that it's not worth my time or effort to even answer you all anymore

 

[Danigt22]

You had many and poo poo them, you like the rest are not interested in counter arguments but just telling others how wrong they are and how right you are. I seen it so much hear from others that it's not worth my time or effort to even answer you all anymore

I had change many times my view points debating, and many people had help me see were im wrong. I actually learn a lot from many other posters who disagree with me in this post. You cant jump into conclusion people wont take your opinions in mind, sometimes it takes days until I get what the other person is trying to tell.

 

[Jamdoc]

Please try not to tell people that God is a killer. It is unhelpful, and probably counter our understanding of God as the giver of life.

But God does kill, all throughout the bible people are killed for sin. You have to accept the truth not fabricate your own dream God and preach that gospel.
the story in Acts about Ananias and Sapphira has been brought up, but what about the sons of Aaron who were struck down for an improper ritual "strange fire", what about Uzzah, who was killed for touching the Ark of the Covenant just to prevent it from falling when the ox driving the cart shook it? 2 Samuel 6:6-7
We all DESERVE death for our sins.
That's kind of the point.

 

[Guojing]

I dont feel its wise to debate someone who is an apostate, I argue about many topic to learn about other people counter arguments and gain insight of the scriptures. If they arent using the bible, and arent believers I see no point debating.

You are interpreting scripture from Paul's gospel of grace, so you see Ananias and Sapphira saved in heaven because, as Paul stated, you cannot lose your salvation since it is by faith only.

Your "critics" are interpreting the same incident from the gospel of the kingdom, where it is faith + works required for salvation.

This is a common reason why arguments about whether salvation is by faith alone, or by various combination of faith + works rarely converge.

 

[Danigt22]

You are interpreting scripture from Paul's gospel of grace, so you see Ananias and Sapphira saved in heaven because, as Paul stated, you cannot lose your salvation since it is by faith only.

Your "critics" are interpreting the same incident from the gospel of the kingdom, where it is faith + works required for salvation.

This is a common reason why arguments about whether salvation is by faith alone, or by various combination of faith + works rarely converge.

What is the gospel of the kingdom, this is new to me.

 

[Guojing]

What is the gospel of the kingdom, this is new to me.

That there will be a king from the line of David that will rule from Jerusalem. That gospel was preached throughout the 4 gospels and early Acts. That is why Jesus was often referred to as the "Son of David".

Jeremiah 23:5-6 states it as

5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Angel Gabriel also told Mary in Luke 1

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

 

[Danigt22]

That there will be a king from the line of David that will rule from Jerusalem. That gospel was preached throughout the 4 gospels and early Acts. That is why Jesus was often referred to as the "Son of David".

Jeremiah 23:5-6 states it as

5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.

Angel Gabriel also told Mary in Luke 1

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Sounds like the kingdom of heaven is an earthly kingdom. While Paul preach a heavenly one... one flesh and blones cannot be a part of.

 

[Guojing]

Sounds like the kingdom of heaven is a earthly kingdom. While Paul preach a heavenly one... one flesh and blones cannot be a part of.

Yes, since by the time Stephen was stoned, God has temporarily blinded Israel and ushered in the new gospel of grace that the ascended Christ revealed to Paul for the "but now" period. Romans 9 to Romans 11 have the details of that.

In the gospel of grace, the body of christ is in a heavenly kingdom, as you have stated.

That gospel of the kingdom is no longer valid but will come back again during the Tribulation when God focused his attention on the nation Israel once again. (Matthew 24:14)

 

[Danigt22]

Yes, since by the time Stephen was stoned, God has temporarily blinded Israel and ushered in the new gospel of grace that the ascended Christ revealed to Paul for the "but now" period. Romans 9 to Romans 11 have the details of that.

In the gospel of grace, the body of christ is in a heavenly kingdom, as you have stated.

That gospel of the kingdom is no longer valid but will come back again during the Tribulation when God focused his attention on the nation Israel once again. (Matthew 24:14)

I feel you are right, we are so lucky to be gentiles in the age of grace.

 

[Danigt22]

Yes, since by the time Stephen was stoned, God has temporarily blinded Israel and ushered in the new gospel of grace that the ascended Christ revealed to Paul for the "but now" period. Romans 9 to Romans 11 have the details of that.

In the gospel of grace, the body of christ is in a heavenly kingdom, as you have stated.

That gospel of the kingdom is no longer valid but will come back again during the Tribulation when God focused his attention on the nation Israel once again. (Matthew 24:14)

I never notice the epistle of romans was prophetic, Israel still rejects its king Jesus Christ.

 

[Guojing]

I never notice the epistle of romans was prophetic, Israel still rejects its king Jesus Christ.

Yes, they are blinded but as Paul emphasized in Romans 11, it is only temporary.

The story of Joseph in Genesis is a good reference to what will probably happen. Joseph was loved by his Father, rejected by his brothers.

In their first meeting, the brothers did not recognize him (4 Gospels)

But in the 2nd meeting, Joseph will reveal his identity to them and they will all accept him (End of Tribulation)

This is the story of Jesus and his Jewish betheren. We gentiles in the body of Christ is the Egyptian bride that comforted Jesus between the first and 2nd meeting, as she did for Joseph.

 

[Danigt22]

Yes, they are blinded but as Paul emphasized in Romans 11, it is only temporary.

The story of Joseph in Genesis is a good reference to what will probably happen. Joseph was loved by his Father, rejected by his brothers.

In their first meeting, the brothers did not recognize him (4 Gospels)

But in the 2nd meeting, Joseph will reveal his identity to them and they will all accept him (End of Tribulation)

This is the story of Jesus and his Jewish betheren. We gentiles in the body of Christ is the Egyptian bride that comforted Jesus between the first and 2nd meeting, as she did for Joseph.

You are lowkey blowing my mind

 

[Oldmantook]

I never distinguished between the 2 in the first place. It was you who did that here, and I objected to your distinction. My conclusion in that post clearly states that John will never consider anyone positionally righteous.

Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

You stated your position in post #41 which I'll quote:
"As I have said, there is no scripture that distinguished positional righteousness from "other" types of righteousness. As far as God is concerned, one who is born again thru 1 Cor 15:1-4 is righteous, period."

You made a blanket statement that the born again person is righteous period. Is that not a definition of positional righteousness?? After all, at the moment of being born again, one is made righteous and thus as far as God is concerned, isn't that person now positionally righteous? Yet you wrote that "John will never consider anyone positionally righteous." So on one hand you deny positional righteousness citing John but on the other hand affirm positional righteousness citing 1 Cor 15:1-4.
Which is it?

 

[Guojing]

You stated your position in post #41 which I'll quote:
"As I have said, there is no scripture that distinguished positional righteousness from "other" types of righteousness. As far as God is concerned, one who is born again thru 1 Cor 15:1-4 is righteous, period."

You made a blanket statement that the born again person is righteous period. Is that not a definition of positional righteousness?? After all, at the moment of being born again, one is made righteous and thus as far as God is concerned, isn't that person now positionally righteous? Yet you wrote that "John will never consider anyone positionally righteous." So on one hand you deny positional righteousness citing John but on the other hand affirm positional righteousness citing 1 Cor 15:1-4.
Which is it?

I already stated earlier that John was only ministering to the circumcised (Galatians 2:9), you must have missed it.

I don't take my salvation doctrine from John's epistles, I take them from Paul, he is my apostle.

John was preaching under the gospel of the circumcision, which was for the Jews. For the Jews, you are only righteous when you follow the commandments. There is no distinction between the 2.

 

[Oldmantook]

I already stated earlier that John was only ministering to the circumcised (Galatians 2:9), you must have missed it.

I don't take my salvation doctrine from John's epistles, I take them from Paul, he is my apostle.

John was preaching under the gospel of the circumcision, which was for the Jews. For the Jews, you are only righteous when you follow the commandments. There is no distinction between the 2.

Problem is all scripture is inspired by God...per 2 Tim 3:16 so you don't have the prerogative of believing which scriptures by Paul or John you choose to believe or ignore.

 

[Danigt22]

Problem is all scripture is inspired by God...per 2 Tim 3:16 so you don't have the prerogative of believing which scriptures by Paul or John you choose to believe or ignore.

What Goujing is pointing out is a different dispensation of grace for jews and gentiles. It is clear you dont believe that. Goujing also points out the difference between the gospel of the kingdom of heaven and the gospel of grace. You will end up never agreeing.

 

[Jamdoc]

Problem is all scripture is inspired by God...per 2 Tim 3:16 so you don't have the prerogative of believing which scriptures by Paul or John you choose to believe or ignore.

Now, caveat, I don't believe in dispensationalism but I think his idea was that he believes that Israel got a different set of instructions than the Gentiles did.
I don't agree with that interpretation, but that's what I'm seeing they believe.

 

[Guojing]

Problem is all scripture is inspired by God...per 2 Tim 3:16 so you don't have the prerogative of believing which scriptures by Paul or John you choose to believe or ignore.

As I have said many times, all of us ignore God's command to Noah to build an ark, we know that it will be silly for anyone to build an ark now.

That does not mean we cannot learn from Noah's faith when he believed God even though no one then has seen rain before.

Likewise, we can learn from John's epistles, without thinking it is written to us.