Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

[Oldmantook]

If you're referring to James 5:19-20 that's just talking about converting someone to salvation.. that's not about losing salvation. Romans 8:13 goes after 7 talking about the war between the flesh and the spirit, the old man and the new. The old man is gonna die. The new will never die.
You do get punished for sin after being saved but the punishment is the Rod (discipline) rather than eternal punishment in Hell.
Why are we told in Hebrews 12 to look at the silver lining of earthly discipline from the Lord? Because it shows that we are being treated like disobedient SONS at the least, not bastards.
How does a rod and a staff comfort you in the psalm? Because the same concept, being disciplined by the Lord shows He loves you enough that He won't just discard you into hell, but you're going to get your stripes for your transgressions.
Better to not sin and not get those stripes, but if you do sin and you're not suffering afflictions for it and everything goes just fine.. that's when to be worried about your salvation. Sinning, no repentance, and life is going just fine, you're "getting away with it".. yeah you're having your season, but it won't last.

James 5:19 cannot refer to converting someone. The verse specifically states "Brethren, if any of YOU.... A brother is already converted so the word epistrepsē in the Greek cannot mean "convert." Instead it means "to turn (around, back, from), return."
Rom 8:13 states YOU will die; not "the old man is gonna die." The old man only dies when we crucify our flesh. If we don't crucify our flesh, we will spiritually die.

 

[Jamdoc]

James 5:19 cannot refer to converting someone. The verse specifically states "Brethren, if any of YOU.... A brother is already converted so the word epistrepsē in the Greek cannot mean "convert." Instead it means "to turn (around, back, from), return."
Rom 8:13 states YOU will die; not "the old man is gonna die." The old man only dies when we crucify our flesh. If we don't crucify our flesh, we will spiritually die.

You still live in a body of flesh.

 

[Oldmantook]

You still live in a body of flesh.

Of course I am; we all are as we still sin and therefore we still live in the flesh. Unless you believe you don't live in the flesh and are perfectly sinless. Are you sinless?

 

[Jamdoc]

Of course I am; we all are as we still sin and therefore we still live in the flesh. Unless you believe you don't live in the flesh and are perfectly sinless. Are you sinless?

No, I thought that's where you were coming from, some people believe that you can be perfectly sinless while still living in a body of flesh, I think it's impossible. It's a good thing to try to aspire to maybe, but recognize we're going to fail, we're going to sin, and it's going to be a constant reminder of our need for Jesus and of God's patience and forgiveness.
Maybe that's why we're not perfected yet, so that we appreciate how great grace can be.
I just worry when I see people post something along the lines that as a Christian if you sin you lose your salvation that they're declaring themselves sinless 1 John 1:8

 

[Oldmantook]

Christ Redeemed Us from the Curse of the Law
This pastor explains it pretty well.

Just because something is written by a pastor, it may not necessarily be accurate. In fact his article has a glaring mistake as he wrote:
There is a difference between law as God intended it and law as legalism. You recall how Peter, who had been eating with Gentiles (in 2:12), withdrew under pressure from the Judaizers. He had been free from the dietary laws but then began again to follow them and to imply that for Gentiles to be fully Christian, they had to do this, too. Paul saw this as out of sync with the gospel (2:14), and also as contrary to the law itself. He said in 2:18, "If I build again those things which I tore down, then I prove myself a transgressor." That is, if we have ceased to depend on "works of law" to show our worth to God, but then start to use the law like that again, then we show ourselves to be transgressors. Of what? Of the law! The law itself condemns the use of its own commands as a way of proving our worth to God and trying to earn his blessing. Paul uses the term "works of law" to refer to this legalistic misuse of law.

The author's mistake is that Peter was never freed from the dietary law. Peter provided his own explanation in Acts 10:28. And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean."
God showed Peter that he should not call the Gentiles unclean because God calls them clean. Jews and Gentiles alike are acceptable to God. That was the point of the vision. Therefore, we don’t have to come up with our own interpretation; Peter already interpreted his vision for us. Thus contrary to the author's claim, Peter still followed the dietary laws.

The author makes the mistake of conflating works of the law with legalism. It is not legalism to obey the law. After all, do you obey or not obey the 10 Commandments? If you obey them, is it legalism? It is only legalism when we claim works of the law in order to be justified. The law never justified or saved anyone as justification comes by faith - not by works of the law. However, although works of the law do not cause our salvation, doing works of the law demonstrate that we are saved. And that is why James wrote in Js 2:24 "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

 

[Oldmantook]

No, I thought that's where you were coming from, some people believe that you can be perfectly sinless while still living in a body of flesh, I think it's impossible. It's a good thing to try to aspire to maybe, but recognize we're going to fail, we're going to sin, and it's going to be a constant reminder of our need for Jesus and of God's patience and forgiveness.
Maybe that's why we're not perfected yet, so that we appreciate how great grace can be.
I just worry when I see people post something along the lines that as a Christian if you sin you lose your salvation that they're declaring themselves sinless 1 John 1:8

Then we both agree that no one is sinless and thus even though we are Christians, we still sin. Given that fact, the scriptures then go on to differentiate between a Christian who sins occasionally and a Christian who sins habitually. 1 Jn 1:7 addresses this where it states: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin."
The word "if" denotes a condition which is a possibility; not a certainty. Thus the promise/assurance of being cleansed of all sin, is conditioned upon the possibility that we choose to walk in the light. Walking in the light is characterized by a general lifestyle of obedience, repentance. On the other hand, those Christians who sin habitually thus demonstrating their continued disobedience, are never assured of their sins being cleansed by Jesus' blood.
Thus as we walk in the light and when we occasionally sin, we repent and Jesus' blood cleanses us as v.7 states. Conversely, if we don't walk in the light and live in continued sin, we demonstrate our unrepentance and Jesus' blood does not cleanse us.

 

[Jamdoc]

Then we both agree that no one is sinless and thus even though we are Christians, we still sin. Given that fact, the scriptures then go on to differentiate between a Christian who sins occasionally and a Christian who sins habitually. 1 Jn 1:7 addresses this where it states: "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin."
The word "if" denotes a condition which is a possibility; not a certainty. Thus the promise/assurance of being cleansed of all sin, is conditioned upon the possibility that we choose to walk in the light. Walking in the light is characterized by a general lifestyle of obedience, repentance. On the other hand, those Christians who sin habitually thus demonstrating their continued disobedience, are never assured of their sins being cleansed by Jesus' blood.
Thus as we walk in the light and when we occasionally sin, we repent and Jesus' blood cleanses us as v.7 states. Conversely, if we don't walk in the light and live in continued sin, we demonstrate our unrepentance and Jesus' blood does not cleanse us.

Mostly agree but I think that some consideration should be given to how WE consider a habitual sin. Someone coming to Christ may have an addiction, and coming to Christ doesn't necessarily make that addiction go away cold turkey in 1 day poof it's gone. Sanctification is a process not an event, and during that process There should be noticable change, a desire to quit the addictive behavior, attempts made to quit, not taking pleasure in that addictive behavior, but that brother may relapse multiple times along the way. It can discourage too much, if we say they're not saved, or if we condemn them, rather than attempt to help them.
Our sins are not greater than God's grace so, you cannot sin yourself out of grace, if you have genuine repentance you'll recognize the sin and seek the Lord's grace, as many times as it takes.
Matthew 18:21-22
and I don't take that to mean we have a finite number of times that we're to forgive people, I think Jesus is just illustrating that we should be forgiving, and not limit it, and if Jesus asks US to be that forgiving, how much greater is the forgiveness of our Father?

 

[Oldmantook]

Mostly agree but I think that some consideration should be given to how WE consider a habitual sin. Someone coming to Christ may have an addiction, and coming to Christ doesn't necessarily make that addiction go away cold turkey in 1 day poof it's gone. Sanctification is a process not an event, and during that process There should be noticable change, a desire to quit the addictive behavior, attempts made to quit, not taking pleasure in that addictive behavior, but that brother may relapse multiple times along the way. It can discourage too much, if we say they're not saved, or if we condemn them, rather than attempt to help them.
Our sins are not greater than God's grace so, you cannot sin yourself out of grace, if you have genuine repentance you'll recognize the sin and seek the Lord's grace, as many times as it takes.
Matthew 18:21-22
and I don't take that to mean we have a finite number of times that we're to forgive people, I think Jesus is just illustrating that we should be forgiving, and not limit it, and if Jesus asks US to be that forgiving, how much greater is the forgiveness of our Father?

That is a good point. Sanctification is a process - a lifetime process to be exact. We know that God is merciful and patient beyond what we deserve. With that being said, what I find objectionable though is the notion that God will always forgive no matter what we do and no matter how long we do it. The Israelites found out that it wasn't true. Ananias and Sapphira found out that it wasn't true. If one takes the mark of the beast, one will find out it isn't true. So yes, God's grace is indeed great but Scripture warns us that there is a limit to his grace as you can indeed sin yourself out of His grace.

 

[Guojing]

It says what it says. Practice righteousness certainly does not mean positional righteousness as positional righteousness is only acquired as a result of faith. On the other hand, the practice of righteousness means that the individual make a habit of doing something - in this case righteousness by living a sanctified (not sinless) life.

Show me where on John epistles or his gospel where he talk about positional righteousness.

 

[Danigt22]

That is a good point. Sanctification is a process - a lifetime process to be exact. We know that God is merciful and patient beyond what we deserve. With that being said, what I find objectionable though is the notion that God will always forgive no matter what we do and no matter how long we do it. The Israelites found out that it wasn't true. Ananias and Sapphira found out that it wasn't true. If one takes the mark of the beast, one will find out it isn't true. So yes, God's grace is indeed great but Scripture warns us that there is a limit to his grace as you can indeed sin yourself out of His grace.

Ananias and Sapphira are more likely to be in heaven, look for example Samson from the book of Judges. He live in lawlessness all his life, he still ended up in heaven. God still honor him forgiveness thanks to his faith in him. What I am trying to guide you is to follow faith and not your works for your justification. Do good things as a way saying of saying thanks, instead of trying to justify why we enter heaven. There are people who never show fruits of the spirit that are in the kingdom of God.

 

[Danigt22]

That is a good point. Sanctification is a process - a lifetime process to be exact. We know that God is merciful and patient beyond what we deserve. With that being said, what I find objectionable though is the notion that God will always forgive no matter what we do and no matter how long we do it. The Israelites found out that it wasn't true. Ananias and Sapphira found out that it wasn't true. If one takes the mark of the beast, one will find out it isn't true. So yes, God's grace is indeed great but Scripture warns us that there is a limit to his grace as you can indeed sin yourself out of His grace.

You cant be sanctify without being justify first, the only thing that can justify us is the Lord Jesus Christ. After you are justify, you cant lose salvation. Glorification should put faith first, ask the holy ghost to give a conscious that will never leave you alone if you are in lawlessness. We put to death the flesh by faith alone, in the spirit of Christ alone. We need to follow God only.

 

[Danigt22]

That is a good point. Sanctification is a process - a lifetime process to be exact. We know that God is merciful and patient beyond what we deserve. With that being said, what I find objectionable though is the notion that God will always forgive no matter what we do and no matter how long we do it. The Israelites found out that it wasn't true. Ananias and Sapphira found out that it wasn't true. If one takes the mark of the beast, one will find out it isn't true. So yes, God's grace is indeed great but Scripture warns us that there is a limit to his grace as you can indeed sin yourself out of His grace.

The works James preach about, are the works of mercy. God, took our cup of wrath for us and show us the biggest act of mercy. We are call to the same for our enemies, the children and the widows. A bitter heart is dangerous for our faith. It harden our hearts until the point we no longer believe. I take this at personal experience since it happen to me in my teenage.

 

[Oldmantook]

Show me where on John epistles or his gospel where he talk about positional righteousness.

I believe you were the one to first use the term "positional righteousness." Why do you ask me if you brought it up?? Are you now back tracking?

 

[Oldmantook]

Ananias and Sapphira are more likely to be in heaven, look for example Samson from the book of Judges. He live in lawlessness all his life, he still ended up in heaven. God still honor him forgiveness thanks to his faith in him. What I am trying to guide you is to follow faith and not your works for your justification. Do good things as a way saying of saying thanks, instead of trying to justify why we enter heaven. There are people who never show fruits of the spirit that are in the kingdom of God.

Are you guessing or does Scripture state it? You should know that doctrine is never derived from guesses. What we do know is that great fear came upon the whole church as a result of their deaths (Acts 5:11). Based on their reaction, it does not appear that they were rejoicing that Ananias and Sapphira were in heaven. Moreover you totally ignore Js 2:24 which plainly states that the believer is justified by works and not by faith only. Doctrine is not formed by ignoring verses either.

 

[Danigt22]

Are you guessing or does Scripture state it? You should know that doctrine is never derived from guesses. What we do know is that great fear came upon the whole church as a result of their deaths (Acts 5:11). Based on their reaction, it does not appear that they were rejoicing that Ananias and Sapphira were in heaven. Moreover you totally ignore Js 2:24 which plainly states that the believer is justified by works and not by faith only. Doctrine is not formed by ignoring verses either.

While you ignore Paul teaching that were meant for the gentiles

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Danigt22]

Are you guessing or does Scripture state it? You should know that doctrine is never derived from guesses. What we do know is that great fear came upon the whole church as a result of their deaths (Acts 5:11). Based on their reaction, it does not appear that they were rejoicing that Ananias and Sapphira were in heaven. Moreover you totally ignore Js 2:24 which plainly states that the believer is justified by works and not by faith only. Doctrine is not formed by ignoring verses either.

They saw a couple died, would you feel happy if your bible believer grandma died and went to heaven. You will be weeping and crying too.

 

[Oldmantook]

You cant be sanctify without being justify first, the only thing that can justify us is the Lord Jesus Christ. After you are justify, you cant lose salvation. Glorification should put faith first, ask the holy ghost to give a conscious that will never leave you alone if you are in lawlessness. We put to death the flesh by faith alone, in the spirit of Christ alone. We need to follow God only.

It is true that one cannot be sanctified without first being justified. However it is false that you can't lose your salvation. If you truly believe that, then you would have no problem at all accepting the mark of the beast as you believe your salvation is never in jeopardy. If you claim that you would never do such a thing, neither you or I have a crystal ball so we cannot say what we will, or will not do in the future with absolute certainty. Peter who walked and talked with Jesus face to face daily was absolutely sure he would never deny knowing Jesus, yet we both know what happened to Peter don't we? Fortunately, Peter repented and was forgiven. The same cannot be said of accepting the mark of the beast. So given your personal belief, would you accept the mark of the beast? Yes or no?

 

[Oldmantook]

The works James preach about, are the works of mercy. God, took our cup of wrath for us and show us the biggest act of mercy. We are call to the same for our enemies, the children and the widows. A bitter heart is dangerous for our faith. It harden our hearts until the point we no longer believe. I take this at personal experience since it happen to me in my teenage.

Where does the verse associate works with mercy? It states no such thing. In fact it associates WORKS with JUSTIFICATION. "You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

 

[Danigt22]

It is true that one cannot be sanctified without first being justified. However it is false that you can't lose your salvation. If you truly believe that, then you would have no problem at all accepting the mark of the beast as you believe your salvation is never in jeopardy. If you claim that you would never do such a thing, neither you or I have a crystal ball so we cannot say what we will, or will not do in the future with absolute certainty. Peter who walked and talked with Jesus face to face daily was absolutely sure he would never deny knowing Jesus, yet we both know what happened to Peter don't we? Fortunately, Peter repented and was forgiven. The same cannot be said of accepting the mark of the beast. So given your personal belief, would you accept the mark of the beast? Yes or no?

We arent the tribulation saints, and if you keep trusting your works instead of trusting in Christ alone. You may end up in that camp.

 

[Oldmantook]

While you ignore Paul teaching that were meant for the gentiles

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Why do you omit v.10??
Faith alone saves (v.8,9). As a result of being saved, we then proceed to demonstrate our faith by doing good works which God created us to do (v.10) which is the outward evidence of our inward faith.