Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

[Jamdoc]

Then you arent in the mistake I was. I was like the Galatians and I still battle against legalism. I'm a pretrib believer, since the trib saints arent save by faith and grace. But Jesus demands them works.

I'm wondering where you're getting that salvation isn't by grace through faith in the tribulation? Is this a dispensationalist belief?

 

[Danigt22]

I'm wondering where you're getting that salvation isn't by grace through faith in the tribulation? Is this a dispensationalist belief?

The part where God cast out the bad servants, the unwise virgins, the fig tree. All of them don't sound like grace, but faith plus works of the law. And it was preach to the house of Israel.

 

[Danigt22]

The part where God cast out the bad servants, the unwise virgins, the fig tree. All of them don't sound like grace, but faith plus works of the law. And it was preach to the house of Israel.

Yeah it is one, It was in a book called 8 kingdoms. The guy who wrote it has a YouTube chanel call the Door.

 

[Danigt22]

I'm wondering where you're getting that salvation isn't by grace through faith in the tribulation? Is this a dispensationalist belief?

From a YouTube channel call the door, Im persuaded he is right

 

[Jamdoc]

The part where God cast out the bad servants, the unwise virgins, the fig tree. All of them don't sound like grace, but faith plus works of the law. And it was preach to the house of Israel.

I look at the parable of the talents differently. Think about WHY the bad servant was cast out. Look at the excuse the servant had. Matthew 25:24. His defense was that he didn't believe in his master coming through for him, he believed his master was a "hard man". It's a lack of faith.
What this illustrates to me is not that works are required for salvation, but works are a byproduct of salvation by faith, the good fruit is not required for a tree to be a good tree with good roots, but they are evidence that the tree is good. Bad fruits are evidence that something is wrong with the tree.
But does a tree have fruits all year round? No. It has seasons where it brings fruit, and other seasons where it has no fruit. The tree can still be good year round though. On the parable of the fig tree, the tree could represent Israel, it could represent individuals, the owner is God the Father, and the Gardener is Jesus. It's to show us that Jesus intercedes for us when God the Father would be perfectly justified in just cutting us down.
as for the parable of the bridesmaids, that is about being ready for the 2nd coming, and a warning that there is a deadline after which you can't be saved. Sometimes it's hard to tell with parables the exact meaning. You can only compare it with clear statements such as the statements that it is grace through faith not works, that's clear. So does that jive with a belief that the parable of talents was teaching works based salvation or faith + works? No not at all, so, the parable shouldn't be looked at in a way that conflicts with the clear statement.
Faith + Works is a false doctrine entirely, Romans 11:6 you can't have a free gift with a cost, that's no longer a free gift. If you believe it's faith + works what you really believe is works, because you don't really have faith. We're told to believe that Jesus died for us, that His death was the payment for our sins, to believe that that is not enough and that you have to earn your way in on top, is to devalue Jesus, and He died for nothing.
Works are evidence, not a payment.

 

[Danigt22]

I look at the parable of the talents differently. Think about WHY the bad servant was cast out. Look at the excuse the servant had. Matthew 25:24. His defense was that he didn't believe in his master coming through for him, he believed his master was a "hard man". It's a lack of faith.
What this illustrates to me is not that works are required for salvation, but works are a byproduct of salvation by faith, the good fruit is not required for a tree to be a good tree with good roots, but they are evidence that the tree is good. Bad fruits are evidence that something is wrong with the tree.
But does a tree have fruits all year round? No. It has seasons where it brings fruit, and other seasons where it has no fruit. The tree can still be good year round though. On the parable of the fig tree, the tree could represent Israel, it could represent individuals, the owner is God the Father, and the Gardener is Jesus. It's to show us that Jesus intercedes for us when God the Father would be perfectly justified in just cutting us down.
as for the parable of the bridesmaids, that is about being ready for the 2nd coming, and a warning that there is a deadline after which you can't be saved. Sometimes it's hard to tell with parables the exact meaning. You can only compare it with clear statements such as the statements that it is grace through faith not works, that's clear. So does that jive with a belief that the parable of talents was teaching works based salvation or faith + works? No not at all, so, the parable shouldn't be looked at in a way that conflicts with the clear statement.
Faith + Works is a false doctrine entirely, Romans 11:6 you can't have a free gift with a cost, that's no longer a free gift. If you believe it's faith + works what you really believe is works, because you don't really have faith. We're told to believe that Jesus died for us, that His death was the payment for our sins, to believe that that is not enough and that you have to earn your way in on top, is to devalue Jesus, and He died for nothing.
Works are evidence, not a payment.

I agree, but I don't know. You can watch his yt video call the eight kindgdom and judge. I'm highly persuaded he is right.

 

[charsan]

A Christian can have a premature death regardless of how he/she lives their life.

Agree, it is quite bizarre the ideas that people come up with all using the Bible

 

[Jamdoc]

I agree, but I don't know. You can watch his yt video call the eight kindgdom and judge. I'm highly persuaded he is right.

Ah yes, Michael Pearl. Some of his stuff is good, others, just doesn't jive with clear scripture when it comes to salvation by grace through faith. See the problem is, that when you take on a pre-trib rapture belief, you have to invent things like different dispensations in order to contain this belief when scripture talks about saints during the tribulation. So you have to make a distinction separating us from them, and then you naturally make a separation between yourselves and Israel and people from before the time of Moses to Moses and the children of Israel.
This is created by that belief in a pre-trib rapture, it is not created in scripture itself. That's why I pointed out Romans 4 to show that even back in Abraham's time, before the laws of Moses, that it has always been salvation by grace through faith. That doesn't change, never has, and I don't believe it ever will.

In Revelation itself, in Revelation 6, and in Revelation 13 which expands into what is going on after the 5th seal, we're talking about the great Tribulation, the Antichrist and how in Revelation 13:7, who is the Antichrist making war against? The saints, believers. Many of them will be martyred, that is what is meant by the beast overcoming them.
You look at those saints as someone else. So you give them different qualities, like having different conditions for salvation.
I look at them as us, maybe even me personally.

If you want, a different view on the tribulation that is more in line with my own, Pastor Steven Anderson has a series on revelation also on Youtube that talks about a mid trib, pre wrath view.

 

[Jamdoc]

Sorry for the tangent I guess but talking about salvation is always relevant. Eschatology is connected but ultimately our beliefs in that pre trib mid trib pre wrath post trib, premillennial, postmillennial, amillennial, preterism, all that.. not as relevant that's not the beliefs that save us. I'm willing to change my eschatology and millennial kingdom beliefs in mid air. The beliefs I have are just what I read into the bible and how I interpret it the best I can is all.
The belief in salvation by grace through faith is of absolute importance though.
Do good works, bear good fruit, but that's not what saves you, Jesus saves you, you do the good works and bear fruit to express your thanksgiving and love for God. Not as a debt you are paying off.

 

[Danigt22]

Ah yes, Michael Pearl. Some of his stuff is good, others, just doesn't jive with clear scripture when it comes to salvation by grace through faith. See the problem is, that when you take on a pre-trib rapture belief, you have to invent things like different dispensations in order to contain this belief when scripture talks about saints during the tribulation. So you have to make a distinction separating us from them, and then you naturally make a separation between yourselves and Israel and people from before the time of Moses to Moses and the children of Israel.
This is created by that belief in a pre-trib rapture, it is not created in scripture itself. That's why I pointed out Romans 4 to show that even back in Abraham's time, before the laws of Moses, that it has always been salvation by grace through faith. That doesn't change, never has, and I don't believe it ever will.

In Revelation itself, in Revelation 6, and in Revelation 13 which expands into what is going on after the 5th seal, we're talking about the great Tribulation, the Antichrist and how in Revelation 13:7, who is the Antichrist making war against? The saints, believers. Many of them will be martyred, that is what is meant by the beast overcoming them.
You look at those saints as someone else. So you give them different qualities, like having different conditions for salvation.
I look at them as us, maybe even me personally.

If you want, a different view on the tribulation that is more in line with my own, Pastor Steven Anderson has a series on revelation also on Youtube that talks about a mid trib, pre wrath view.

It is okay, we are here to find truth. Not to be right.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If that happens, what consequences happens when goes to heaven.

It is the second death that we should be concerned about.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

 

[Jamdoc]

It is okay, we are here to find truth. Not to be right.

He does have an interesting bit of theology though, the idea that this isn't the first time that the earth has been "created" and that the 6 days of creation are actually re-creating from a prior creation of the earth, this would maybe explain all the things that appear to have died millions and billions of years ago.. that those were from a prior "world".
It's one way to address things anyway, an idea. I like it better than the idea that God just made the world look older for no reason though, because it makes God seem deceptive.
God not telling us everything and letting us discover for ourselves is no problem, but God telling us one thing and us finding something different is a big problem.

 

[Guojing]

That is the plain meaning of the verse which you choose to disagree with which is your prerogative but does not make for sound hermeneutics.

In the second place, John is certainly not writing to circumcised Jews. Galatians was written by Paul. Why do you confuse 1 John which was written by John with Galatians which was written by Paul?? John was writing to those who have fellowship with us, fellowship with the Father and with Jesus (1 Jn 1:3) which indicates he was writing to the saints/church - not the Jews as you claim.

Let's take a look at your first point. Looking at the verse you quoted The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 1 Jn 3:7

Do you think John was distingushing between the 2 types of righteousness in that verse? That verse is saying John believes he who practice righteousness is righteous, period.

He is not trying to teach the reader that there is positional righteousness and practical righteousness.

Would you agree with that?

 

[Guojing]

Christ Redeemed Us from the Curse of the Law
This pastor explains it pretty well.

Not many Christians distinguish between the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace.

They automatically assume that the entire NT is about the gospel of grace.

 

[Danigt22]

Let's take a look at your first point. Looking at the verse you quoted The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 1 Jn 3:7

Do you think John was distingushing between the 2 types of righteousness in that verse? That verse is saying John believes he who practice righteousness is righteous, period.

He is not trying to teach the reader that there is positional righteousness and practical righteousness.

Would you agree with that?

... (wrong person, sorry)

It is the second death that we should be concerned about.
Be blessed and stay healthy.

I agree, nevertheless Jesus already drank our cup of wrath. We have an amazing God taking the punishment for us. Dont we.

 

[JacksBratt]

I took it to mean that by the world's standards we have a life expectancy of somewhere in the 70+ years, but dying younger than that.

IC.. but, it's only "premature" to us.
It is appointed unto men ( every human ) once to die... We need to be ready every day.

God knows the day we will die. We don't.. Non of it is "premature" to God. He has His reasons..

Who, by worrying, can add even a minute to his days?

We live in this dimension of only knowing one day at a time. God knows the past present and future. When it is our time.. it is our time.

 

[Jamdoc]

IC.. but, it's only "premature" to us.
It is appointed unto men ( every human ) once to die... We need to be ready every day.

God knows the day we will die. We don't.. Non of it is "premature" to God. He has His reasons..

Who, by worrying, can add even a minute to his days?

We live in this dimension of only knowing one day at a time. God knows the past present and future. When it is our time.. it is our time.

Sure but I'm sure you'd feel it premature if you're in the middle of something, even something important, like you're just reading the bible cover to cover for the first time

 

[JacksBratt]

Sure but I'm sure you'd feel it premature if you're in the middle of something, even something important, like you're just reading the bible cover to cover for the first time

My family may say "He went too soon" or "He was too young" or "He had so much left to accomplish". (probably not all those as I'm in my late 50's )

However, me.... I'd be with the Lord and from what I read in the bible... I would have no tears of worries or complaints.

Yes, we feel that some are taken "prematurely" but that is because we don't know what God's plan is all the time.

I believe your OP is more in relation to "Does God take us early because of our actions and behavior"?

IMO no. If we are Christians, death is not a punishment or a discipline for living lawlessly. God does not kill us for sinning. But, that's my opinion.

 

[Philip_B]

John 14:15-20
‘If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, to be with you forever. This is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, because he abides with you, and he will be in you.

‘I will not leave you orphaned; I am coming to you. In a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me; because I live, you also will live. On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.​

The fundamental truths that we are called to faith, to love God as he has loved us, to live in him, that when he rose of high Christ leads a host of captives, that holiness is more about whose we are rather that any self proclaimed moral perfection we may have achieved, that salvation is of Christ the Lord.

None of us is in a position to know the ultimate fate of any other person, and we are not called to stand in ultimate judgement, we are called to know the love of God in our own lives, long or short. We are ultimately children of grace.

 

[Oldmantook]

Let's take a look at your first point. Looking at the verse you quoted The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous. 1 Jn 3:7

Do you think John was distingushing between the 2 types of righteousness in that verse? That verse is saying John believes he who practice righteousness is righteous, period.

He is not trying to teach the reader that there is positional righteousness and practical righteousness.

Would you agree with that?

It says what it says. Practice righteousness certainly does not mean positional righteousness as positional righteousness is only acquired as a result of faith. On the other hand, the practice of righteousness means that the individual make a habit of doing something - in this case righteousness by living a sanctified (not sinless) life.