Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

[Danigt22]

I wonder if anyone will receive 100% of the reward that God would have given them, we all fall short of the ideal.

This is something I always wonder, and what exactly are the rewards. I always thought feeling the holy ghost dwelling within you was the price, from how Paul describes the kingdom of God.

 

[Danigt22]

Jesus said:"Matt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"

A person whom therefore does not behave as a believer in Christ is not a believer in him. Such a person as you describe has fallen form the faith and they are worse off than an unbeliever.

Scripture says they will be punished worse:"
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

Sorry if you're talking about someone you know or a relative, but this is the cold hard facts of it all.

Hebrews is a gospel to the Jews. Glorification is something that happens after justification. We are save by faith alone, and called to be sanctify and glorify. Nevertheless once we are justify, we cant lose that. God doesnt lose any believer.

 

[GraceBro]

If that happens, what consequences happens when goes to heaven.

Nobody knows when they are going to die. Therefore, you can't really measure if a person has suffered a "premature death." All sin has consequences. If someone is engaged in a sin that leads to death, it is an unfortunate consequence of that activity. However, God is not counting our sins against us. Therefore, there are no consequences in heaven for that activity.

 

[Oldmantook]

We will never practice righteousness in our own merits. It is in the blood of the blood we are make righteous. We deserve hellfire, even if you believe you are doing good you are not. Be humble and trust the lord Jesus Christ and not your works.

We never practice righteousness in our own merits however through the indwelling Spirit and by His grace we are enabled to practice righteousness as you omit the fact that we were created to do good works (Eph 2:10) and "that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work" (2 Tim 3:17).

 

[Danigt22]

We never practice righteousness in our own merits however through the indwelling Spirit and by His grace we are enabled to practice righteousness as you omit the fact that we were created to do good works (Eph 2:10) and "that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work" (2 Tim 3:17).

Yes but no, we need to divide salvation and fellowship. Our cup of wrath was already drink by Jesus Christ, we dont deserve it. Nevertheless fellowship was never promise with faith only.

 

[Oldmantook]

In the first place, Its a bit of a leap in logic to conclude that John was distinguishing 2 types of righteousness in that verse.

In the second place, John was writing to circumcised (Galatians 2:9). For the Jews, they believe that Faith without works is dead, as James instructed them.

Under the gospel of the kingdom, they are only finally righteous/born again, when Jesus comes back to Earth and usher them to the promised kingdom in Israel (Acts 3:19-21).

In the meantime, they are required to keep the Law to the best of their ability. John and the rest will never consider a Jew as positionally righteous, there is no such concept in the gospel of the Kingdom.

That is the plain meaning of the verse which you choose to disagree with which is your prerogative but does not make for sound hermeneutics.

In the second place, John is certainly not writing to circumcised Jews. Galatians was written by Paul. Why do you confuse 1 John which was written by John with Galatians which was written by Paul?? John was writing to those who have fellowship with us, fellowship with the Father and with Jesus (1 Jn 1:3) which indicates he was writing to the saints/church - not the Jews as you claim.

 

[Oldmantook]

Yes but no, we need to divide salvation and fellowship. Our cup of wrath was already drink by Jesus Christ, we dont deserve it. Nevertheless fellowship was never promise with faith only.

Incorrect. If one does not have fellowship with God, one walks in darkness per 1 Jn 1:6. The very next verse states that we have fellowship with one another IF WE WALK IN THE LIGHT. The little word "if" indicates a condition that must be met in order to have fellowship. "If" also indicates the possibility that some believers will choose not to walk in the light. Conversely, it also indicates that if we do not walk in the light, then we are not assured of "that the blood of Jesus His son cleanses us from all sin."

 

[dms1972]

I read something about this I think in a Wesley Sermon, years ago, I could try and find, if you would like his take on the question?

 

[Oldmantook]

I'd say not necessarily, a poster above posted pertinent verses in 1 Corinthians but the mouseover doesn't catch the most pertinent verse imo which is 1 Corinthians 5:5, it's what comes to mind as I read OP's question.
Destruction of the flesh
so that the soul is saved in Christ.

So yes, if you have faith in Jesus, you SHALL not come under condemnation, that is future tense. John 5:24
So once you are a believer in Christ, you're saved, but as Paul writes in his epistles especially Romans 7, your spirit is new, your flesh is not, and it's a war between the spirit and the flesh, it requires effort to deny the flesh on a daily basis to walk in spirit, not even daily, just moment to moment you just have to keep consciously denying the flesh, if you don't, you walk in the flesh, you fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and you sin. What Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 5 is a brother, that is a believer, someone who is saved, is doing such foul sin that the only way to stop it is for their flesh to be destroyed, for them to die prematurely, so that their spirit goes to the Lord.

So yes, if a Christian is walking in the flesh and sinning, God is going to chastize them and scourge them (Hebrews 12:5-6), it's a part of sanctification, and He may decide, that the most suitable way to sanctify you, if you're not responding to corrective actions, is to remove you from your body, so that your flesh is no longer an obstacle since you weren't capable of denying it.

The most pertinent part of that verse of 1 Corinthians 5, is the last part

So, can you be saved after you die? As far as I know you die once, then comes judgement. So that person had to have been saved before they died. Otherwise, if they were not saved, there'd be nothing about their spirit being saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. It'd just be delivering them up to Satan to be destroyed, OR, it would be saying they weren't saved, and appealing to them to GET saved. But at least as far as the inspired scripture that Paul was writing was concerned, this brother WAS saved, was walking in the flesh, sinning, and so they'd have Satan kill his body to save his spirit.

Problem is 1 Cor 5:5 specifically refers to one particular individual whom is delivered to Satan for the destruction of his flesh in order that he may be saved come the day of the Lord. You cannot conclude that it applies to everyone else as that would go beyond what the text itself states and you are over generalizing. Moreover, your view contradicts verses such as Rom 8:13 and Js 5:19-20 that brethren who continually sin face spiritual death.

 

[Danigt22]

That is the plain meaning of the verse which you choose to disagree with which is your prerogative but does not make for sound hermeneutics.

In the second place, John is certainly not writing to circumcised Jews. Galatians was written by Paul. Why do you confuse 1 John which was written by John with Galatians which was written by Paul?? John was writing to those who have fellowship with us, fellowship with the Father and with Jesus (1 Jn 1:3) which indicates he was writing to the saints/church - not the Jews as you claim.

That is the plain meaning of the verse which you choose to disagree with which is your prerogative but does not make for sound hermeneutics.

In the second place, John is certainly not writing to circumcised Jews. Galatians was written by Paul. Why do you confuse 1 John which was written by John with Galatians which was written by Paul?? John was writing to those who have fellowship with us, fellowship with the Father and with Jesus (1 Jn 1:3) which indicates he was writing to the saints/church - not the Jews as you claim.

Im not a lordship salvationist so we will continue to disagree. Nevertheless Im not living in lawlessness.

 

[Oldmantook]

Im not a lordship salvationist so we will continue to disagree. Nevertheless Im not living in lawlessness.

I did not claim you are living in lawlessness. I simply pointed out to you that the verses in 1 John 1 contradict your belief which in your reply, you have neglected to address.

 

[Danigt22]

I did not claim you are living in lawlessness. I simply pointed out to you that the verses in 1 John 1 contradict your belief which in your reply, you have neglected to address.

That gospel isn't for the gentiles. If we needed works it will be a debt, remember what king David says. Bless are those who are forgiven of sin without works. Dont trust your works, we are no longer under the law.

 

[Oldmantook]

That gospel isn't for the gentiles. If we needed works it will be a debt, remember what king David says. Bless are those who are forgiven of sin without works. Dont trust your works, we are no longer under the law.

Really? The gospel isn't for gentiles? Where do you get that notion from? Paul preached the gospel to the gentiles. Are you reading the same Bible?

 

[Danigt22]

Really? The gospel isn't for gentiles? Where do you get that notion from? Paul preached the gospel to the gentiles. Are you reading the same Bible?

Epistle* sorry

 

[Danigt22]

Really? The gospel isn't for gentiles? Where do you get that notion from? Paul preached the gospel to the gentiles. Are you reading the same Bible?

If you want to follow the law instead of grace, go ahead.

 

[Jamdoc]

What is a "premature death".

We all have our day when we die.

Even if we commit suicide... God knows that day and has known that day since creation.

You cannot "surprise" God.

No matter.... when we die.. the one question will be.... "Did you accept and acknowledge Christ as your savior"?

I took it to mean that by the world's standards we have a life expectancy of somewhere in the 70+ years, but dying younger than that.

 

[Danigt22]

Really? The gospel isn't for gentiles? Where do you get that notion from? Paul preached the gospel to the gentiles. Are you reading the same Bible?

Christ Redeemed Us from the Curse of the Law
This pastor explains it pretty well.

 

[Jamdoc]

I do believe Jesus is enough, that is the correct gospel. Nevertheless, I dont feel people who think they need works plus faith will be cast out to hell. Most of them are fearful that they will be cast out of bad behaviour, but they already know without Jesus their works are meaningless. This is wrong doctrine yes, but I feel they are still save. Jesus said we only need to believe in him. And for the part that said "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" this happens after the wedding. I feel this are the Gentiles who survived the tribulation, but they didnt help the Jews. Since the tribulation saints quoted in revelation need to be under the law. So, my guess is that they are no longer under grace as we are.

That's not what I believe because I believe the law was never given for Salvation, the law was given to show just how imperfect we are and how we could never be saved by our own righteousness.
Abraham lied, Moses murdered, David commit adultery, yet these Old Testament saints are in heaven I believe, why? Not by their legalism that's for sure.
Salvation has ALWAYS been by grace through faith.
Romans 4:2-3
Even Lot in his totally backsliden sorry excuse of a life I believe is saved, the story of Lot I believe is an illustration about how a backslider can lose just about everything but God's grace as Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 3:15. He's saved, but he probably has next to no reward to be given to him at the Judgement seat of Christ.

I am taking it you're a pre trib rapture believer. It's a different topic but we're kind of on different pages when it comes to the ideas of tribulation saints since you believe we're in a "church age" and that we won't go under tribulation, but what I believe is mid tribulation, pre wrath of God, that's the timing given in Revelation 6 that goes along with the descriptions of Matthew 24. I believe that salvation in the tribulation will also be by grace through faith, because the witnesses, the 144,000, are they going to be preaching the Gospel which saves? or the Law which only convicts?

 

[Danigt22]

That's not what I believe because I believe the law was never given for Salvation, the law was given to show just how imperfect we are and how we could never be saved by our own righteousness.
Abraham lied, Moses murdered, David commit adultery, yet these Old Testament saints are in heaven I believe, why? Not by their legalism that's for sure.
Salvation has ALWAYS been by grace through faith.
Romans 4:2-3
Even Lot in his totally backsliden sorry excuse of a life I believe is saved, the story of Lot I believe is an illustration about how a backslider can lose just about everything but God's grace as Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 3:15. He's saved, but he probably has next to no reward to be given to him at the Judgement seat of Christ.

I am taking it you're a pre trib rapture believer. It's a different topic but we're kind of on different pages when it comes to the ideas of tribulation saints since you believe we're in a "church age" and that we won't go under tribulation, but what I believe is mid tribulation, pre wrath of God, that's the timing given in Revelation 6 that goes along with the descriptions of Matthew 24. I believe that salvation in the tribulation will also be by grace through faith, because the witnesses, the 144,000, are they going to be preaching the Gospel which saves? or the Law which only convicts?

Then you arent in the mistake I was. I was like the Galatians and I still battle against legalism. I'm a pretrib believer, since the trib saints arent save by faith and grace. But Jesus demands them works.

 

[Jamdoc]

Problem is 1 Cor 5:5 specifically refers to one particular individual whom is delivered to Satan for the destruction of his flesh in order that he may be saved come the day of the Lord. You cannot conclude that it applies to everyone else as that would go beyond what the text itself states and you are over generalizing. Moreover, your view contradicts verses such as Rom 8:13 and Js 5:19-20 that brethren who continually sin face spiritual death.

If you're referring to James 5:19-20 that's just talking about converting someone to salvation.. that's not about losing salvation. Romans 8:13 goes after 7 talking about the war between the flesh and the spirit, the old man and the new. The old man is gonna die. The new will never die.
You do get punished for sin after being saved but the punishment is the Rod (discipline) rather than eternal punishment in Hell.
Why are we told in Hebrews 12 to look at the silver lining of earthly discipline from the Lord? Because it shows that we are being treated like disobedient SONS at the least, not bastards.
How does a rod and a staff comfort you in the psalm? Because the same concept, being disciplined by the Lord shows He loves you enough that He won't just discard you into hell, but you're going to get your stripes for your transgressions.
Better to not sin and not get those stripes, but if you do sin and you're not suffering afflictions for it and everything goes just fine.. that's when to be worried about your salvation. Sinning, no repentance, and life is going just fine, you're "getting away with it".. yeah you're having your season, but it won't last.