Voluntary Sin

[Zao is life]

Here are the verses in modern English, "Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Makes a lot more sense, doesn't it?

Yes, it does - but not when it's twisted to mean we have to hold onto obedience to the Law of Moses, with all it's commandments. In my post #70 I list just some of the long list of curses which come upon those under the Law when they fail to obey each and every command in it.

 

[GospelS]

We review it from time to time, but don't get too deep into it. Most are archaic at best and have no application today. Many are misunderstood as well and are taken to extremes by some who still cling to them.

Thanks for sharing. As you said earlier, I was just agreeing with you that yes we have no history or memory and that we would have to be re-educated about it.

 

[HARK!]

Chapter 10 sums it up.

My copy has 13 chapters.

 

[HARK!]

The only law to obey through abiding in Christ is love - which He will produce in you, if you abide in Him - and LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

From Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

 

[fhansen]

The only law to obey through abiding in Christ is love - which He will produce in you, if you abide in Him - and LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW:

Yes, and this doesn't mean that love replaces the need to fulfill the law, but that loves moves us to actually fulfill it, the only right way, the New Covenant way, for the right reasons, because of love, not fear or as an attempt to earn ones way to heaven, etc. I always appreciate a statement from an early father, Basil of Caesarea:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nothing indicates that sin is isolated to adultery only.

Adultery was the subject of that story.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yahshua wasn't at odds with the Torah. He magnified it.


(CLV) Isa 42:21
Yahweh, He has delight for the sake of His righteousness, And He may magnify the law and ennoble it.

What is noble about not wearing clothing woven from differing threads?

 

[Zao is life]

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

From Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

His precepts are easy:

Rom 13:10 "Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Mat 22:40 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

1 John 5:4-5 "For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.

Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?"

1 John 4:7-8 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God. He that loves not knows not God; for God is love."

Jophn 13:34-35 "John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That all of you love one another; as I have loved you, that all of you also love one another. By this shall all men know that all of you are my disciples, if all of you have love * one to another."

Those are His ONLY precepts, because the Law given to Moses BRINGS ONLY DEATH because each and every failure to obey each and every command 100% from birth till death brings CURSES AND DEATH:

Rom 7:10-14 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."

Obedience to the Law given to Moses = death. Abiding in the vine (Christ) produces lawful acts because He Himself puts his love for God and neighbor into those who are abiding in Him. The Holy Spirit will prohibit the one abiding in the vine from acting lawlessly, either by word or actions. The Holy Spirit will convict the one abiding in the vine of sinful thoughts and actions, and the Holy Spirit will prompt acts of love - so that as James said, no one who has faith in Christ is acting lawfully if he or she fails to love neighbor and brethren both in word and in deed and fails to bridle his or her tongue, etc etc

The Old precepts are gone. The New precepts are here. Christ obeyed the Law on our behalf and He is the son of Man - meaning He abiding in man and man in Him (the way the first Adam is in all the sons of Adam and all the sons of Adam in him - Christ is the last Adam).

The law given to Moses is gone. Those who attempt to obey it are acting lawlessly. The love of Christ is shed in the hearts and minds of those abiding in Him, fulfilling the promise:

Jer 31:33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

It is not the Law abolished in the flesh of Christ which He puts in the hearts and minds of those who abide in Him - it is the perfect Law of Love (Christ's love). It fulfills the Law.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Det 28:15-26 "But it shall come to pass, if you will not hearken unto the voice of the LORD your God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command you this day; that all these curses shall come upon you, and overtake you:

Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the field.
Cursed shall be your basket and your store.
Cursed shall be the fruit of your body, and the fruit of your land, the increase of your cattle, and the flocks of your sheep.
Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.
The LORD shall send upon you cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that you set yours hand unto in order to do, until you be destroyed, and until you perish quickly; because of the wickedness of your doings, whereby you have forsaken me.
The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto you, until he have consumed you from off the land, where you go to possess it.
The LORD shall strike you with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue you until you perish.
And your heaven that is over your head shall be brass, and the earth that is under you shall be iron.
The LORD shall make the rain of your land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon you, until you be destroyed.
The LORD shall cause you to be smitten before yours enemies: you shall go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shall be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
And your carcass shall be food unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall frighten them away."

The list of curses goes on and on for disobedience to the Law.

Most of the nations of the earth are under these curses because of disobedience to many of God's physical laws (albeit mostly through ignorance), but they have little to do with the new covenant and the church.

 

[HARK!]

What is noble about not wearing clothing woven from differing threads?

The fact that an old guy like you had to ask this question; or even that a young geezer like me can't answer you; shows how far we have drifted from understanding YHWH's ways. The law is a reflection of his nature. If we don't understand his laws; it's because we don't know him very well. If we had been practicing his ways all along, we might understand them better.

My mother encouraged me to question her; if she gave me an instruction that I disagreed with. She wanted me to understand why she thought the way she did; so that when she wasn't around; I would be able to work through these things on my own.

 

[fhansen]

The point is that Jesus brought the forgiveness of grace, not the condemnation of the law. There are many examples of this.

Yes, we're forgiven, cleansed, and also made new creations. We're expected not to remain in sin as we enter this fellowship with the Trinity, even as we'll continue to struggle against sin. God not only mercifully forgives sin, but also mercifully empowers us to overcome it as we remain in Him and He in us. To return to the flesh and sin seriously and overtly in the ways that Scripture plainly tells us will keep us out of heaven is to mock God and the work of His Son.
"If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
"Which ones?" he inquired.
Jesus replied, "'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony..." Matt 19:17-18

 

[HARK!]

Mat 22:40 "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.




(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'

(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.


(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

 

[HARK!]

Those are His ONLY precepts, because the Law given to Moses BRINGS ONLY DEATH

LOL!

Those laws were given through Moses.

 

[renniks]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Are you saying that we can hate our brothers, without actually murdering them; and that Yahshua has us covered in our continued hatred?

Why would our hatred be ongoing if we have the spirit to correct us? I'm saying exactly what I stated, you are not getting tossed into hell because you struggle with sin, but you will if you continue until you are no longer a believer.

 

[Zao is life]

(CLV) Ec 1:9
What occurred once, it shall occur again, And what was done, it shall be done again. There is nothing at all new under the sun.




(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

(CLV) Mt 22:38
This is the great and foremost precept.

(CLV) Mt 22:39
Yet the second is like it: `You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'

(CLV) Mt 22:40
On these two precepts is hanging the whole law and the prophets."

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.


(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Christ fulfilled the law and died and rose again because the Law, though it is Holy and just and good, is incapable of imparting God's life to anyone who seeks to obey it.

God's life is imparted only to those who through faith in Christ, abide in Christ who is the vine imparting God's Life and God's love into the hearts of His people.

The law and precepts you attempt to live by are incapable of producing Christ's life in you because they bring only curses and death to you. When anyone places himself under the Law of Moses with all its commandments and precepts again, they are placing themselves back under the curse which Christ came to REDEEM US FROM - and they are considering the price of redemption - the blood of Christ insufficient, and therefore worthless.

Christ is the Son of Man and the last Adam - He did it all FOR US, and He has REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW - the curse you insist on keeping yourself and others under.

 

[HARK!]

Why would our hatred be ongoing if we have the spirit to correct us?

Exactly. It should come to an abrupt halt.

(CLV) 1Jn 3:9
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he can not be sinning, for he is begotten of God.

 

[HARK!]

Christ fulfilled the law and died and rose again because the Law

He calls us to imitate him.

(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.

 

[fhansen]

Christ fulfilled the law and died and rose again because the Law, though it is Holy and just and good, is incapable of imparting God's life to anyone who seeks to obey it.

God's life is imparted only to those who through faith in Christ, abide in Christ who is the vine imparting God's Life and God's love into the hearts of His people.

The law and precepts you attempt to live by are incapable of producing Christ's life in you because they bring only curses and death to you. When anyone places himself under the Law of Moses with all its commandments and precepts again, they are placing themselves back under the curse which Christ came to REDEEM US FROM - and they are considering the price of redemption - the blood of Christ insufficient, and therefore worthless.

Christ is the Son of Man and the last Adam - He did it all FOR US, and He has REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW - the curse you insist on keeping yourself and others under.

This is true. But it doesn't make the Law bad, as Paul clearly tells us in Rom 7. It makes being "under the Law" bad, or futile at any rate, and not life-giving. Only God can give life, only God the Spirit can cause our righteousness to exceed that of the Pharisees, by changing us interiorly so that we'll be clean on the inside as well as the outside. This is to be "under grace". The Law is a curse because it involves my attempts, my "righteousness", which I don't even have apart from God. Adam set humanity apart from God. But, "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

 

[Zao is life]

He calls us to imitate him.

(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.

By Christ. Not by you.

He wants you to take up your cross and follow Him, yes. He was despised and rejected, falsely accused, cruelly put to death, deserted when He was arrested by those whom He should have been able to trust.

Yes, He wants you to imitate Him - but you will not earn righteousness through your fleshly obedience to the Law which was abolished by Him in His flesh because it brings nothing but curses and death to you.

 

[HARK!]

the Law which was abolished by Him

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.