ORIGIN OF THE 7th DAY SABBATH IN CREATION

[Bob S]

Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, Certainly that could hit the nail on the head with Adventism judging those who eat pork and drink some alcoholic beverage.

or with regard to a religious festival, As per http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/holidays "The most important Jewish holy days are the Sabbath, the three pilgrimage festivals (Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot) and the two High Holy Days (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur). For observant Jews, it is forbidden to work on any of these days." Those holidays or festivals are called Sabbaths. So we are not to be judged because we do not observe those days.

Then Paul mentions new moon celebrations. There doesn't seem to be any debate with SDAs over not judging anyone for not observing those Jewish celebrations.

Now for the big one or a Sabbath day. This one causes people like LGW to put together long posts that try to make us believe Sabbath day means any number of feast days mentioned in scripture. The problem is that Paul has already mentioned feast days that were called rest days or Sabbaths. LGW's conclusion seems to make Paul repeat himself now doesn't it? Could it be that LGW and the church he belongs to are wrong? Could it be that the foundation of the church would be demolished if they didn't try to shore it up by trying to change the meaning of what Paul is really telling us? I read in 2Cor 3:6-11 that the ten commandments have been done away, KJV, and the Sabbath command was one of the ten and that seems to go along with Col 2:16. Then I read Gal 3 where Paul tells the Galatians that they are foolish for listening to the Jews that had succeeded putting those Gentile believers under the laws of the defunct old covenant.. I have no other choice than to compare what SDAs are trying to do to us and what the Jews did to the Galatians.

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

1Cor 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

I, too, am under Christ's law Jn 15: 10-13 and the battle goes on with those who would put all mankind under the laws that the Jews imposed on those (foolish) Galatians.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Based on the length of some of your posts. A simple answer is needed rather than questions.What do you mean by The Law of Moses?

I do not refer to the Law of Moses. JBL does.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Some people argue that the ten commandments are not in the law of Moses. You're being asked that question for clarity sake.
No one believes that you can be saved by not repenting of sins.

I do not know of any people arguing that the 10 Commandments are not repeated in the law of Moses. Sin is defined in the scriptures as not believing and following Gods Word *ROMANS 14:23 and knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 17:30. This includes God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, Certainly that could hit the nail on the head with Adventism judging those who eat pork and drink some alcoholic beverage. or with regard to a religious festival, As per http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/holday "The most important Jewish holy days are the Sabbath, the three pilgrimage festivals (Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot) and the two High Holy Days (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur). For observant Jews, it is forbidden to work on any of these days." Those holidays or festivals are called Sabbaths. So we are not to be judged because we do not observe those days.

Hi Bob, nice to see you again. Sorry dear friend your claims are not biblical if anyone is interested to see why there is a detailed scripture response here....

COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 ARE YOU BEING TOLD THE TRUTH -UPDATED

Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days that can fall on any day of the week not Gods' 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of God's eternal laws from the 10 commandments that define what sin is. Bob according to the scriptures, sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-31; JAMES 4:17; JAMES 2:10-11.

Then Paul mentions new moon celebrations. There doesn't seem to be any debate with SDAs over not judging anyone for not observing those Jewish celebrations.

We are not to judge anyone Bob *ROMANS 2:1-6, although we are to judge righteouss judgement *JOHN 7:24 and that is according to the Word of God *PSALMS 119:75; 144; REVELATION 16:7. God's Word will be our judge come judgement day *JOHN 12:47-48. If we feel judged by the Word of God it is God's Spirit convicting us of sin *JOHN 16:8 and we should turn to God and believe and follow His Words. According to the scriptures, sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-31; JAMES 4:17; JAMES 2:10-11.

Now for the big one or a Sabbath day. This one causes people like LGW to put together long posts that try to make us believe Sabbath day means any number of feast days mentioned in scripture. The problem is that Paul has already mentioned feast days that were called rest days or Sabbaths. LGW's conclusion seems to make Paul repeat himself now doesn't it? Could it be that LGW and the church he belongs to are wrong? Could it be that the foundation of the church would be demolished if they didn't try to shore it up by trying to change the meaning of what Paul is really telling us? I read in 2Cor 3:6-11 that the ten commandments have been done away, KJV, and the Sabbath command was one of the ten and that seems to go along with Col 2:16. Then I read Gal 3 where Paul tells the Galatians that they are foolish for listening to the Jews that had succeeded putting those Gentile believers under the laws of the defunct old covenant.. I have no other choice than to compare what SDAs are trying to do to us and what the Jews did to the Galatians.

Bob for me surface reading and pulling scripture out of context is the reason there are over 40,000 different denominations of Christianity today. Your simply just repeating yourself again without addressing any of the posts and scriptures shared with you that prove what your claiming is not true. As shown through the scriptures alone Colossians 2:16 is talking about the annual cereminial sabbaths in the feast days (detailed scripture proof here).

As posted earlier in relation to 2 CORINTHIANS 3:6? Your only repeating yourself again without addressing any of my posts to you showing that that this is in reference to the two covenants and God's law being written on the heart to Love and love fulfilling God's law according to the new covenant promise *2 CORINTHIANS 3:3; HEBREWS 8:10-12. It is not telling us that Gods 10 commandments are abolished that interpretation would contradict the whole bible and make Paul a hypocrite (e.g. ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 etc, etc..)

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Amen Bob! No one is telling you to be justified or we have salvation by keeping the law so your scripture is not relevant Bob.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace

Sin not having dominion over us means that we will no longer be practicing sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. We are under grace for OBEDIENCE to the faith...

ROMANS 1:5, through WHOM WE HAVE RECEIVED GRACE and apostleship, UNTO OBEDIENCE OF FAITH among all the nations, for his name's sake

ROMANS 16:26 But now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith

Grace is not a liscence to sin Bob it is given to us so we can walk in newness of life.

1Cor 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

Christ's law is a new heart to love on which all the LAW and the prophets hang *MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; HEBREWS 8:10-12. This is the new covenant promise of to love which establishes God's LAW in the heart of all those who believe and follow God's Word.

I, too, am under Christ's law Jn 15: 10-13 and the battle goes on with those who would put all mankind under the laws that the Jews imposed on those (foolish) Galatians.

No one is "Under the law" Bob if they have been forgiven for their sins *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9. We are only "Under the law" if we stand before God guilty of breaking the law according to the scriptures *ROMANS 3:19-20. Sin is not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23 and breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and just like anyone of God's 10 commandments if we knowingly break it we stand guilty before God of sin *1 JOHN 3:4. Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-31; ROMANS 6:23.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Deleted

 

[Bob S]

Hi Bob, nice to see you again. Sorry dear friend your claims are not biblical if anyone is interested to see why there is a detailed scripture response here....

ACcording to LGW. Lets take a peek and see about who is being Biblical.

COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 ARE YOU BEING TOLD THE TRUTH -UPDATED

Colossians 2:16 is in reference to the annual sabbaths in the feast days that can fall on any day of the week not Gods' 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of God's eternal laws from the 10 commandments that define what sin is. Bob according to the scriptures, sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-31; JAMES 4:17; JAMES 2:10-11.

The feast days didn't have to fall on the weekly Sabbath to be called Sabbaths. Feasts were Sabbaths

We are not to judge anyone Bob

Well now that does cause quite a conundrum no doesn't it. I know we are not to judge, but do you really understand that you are supporting a church that does a lot of judging through the writings of none other than the prophet that you have taken a vow to believe. The biggie is the one where she wrote that unless I keep the weekly Sabbath I can't be saved. If that is not judging I will eat my hat. Of course you will deny it somehow, but here it is anyway for others to read.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

Ellen wrote that because I worship God on Sunday I am in satan's control and that I cannot be saved. You support her as being equal to the writers of the Bible. She is the last word in interpreting scripture.

God's Word will be our judge come judgement day *JOHN 12:47-48.

Guess what LGW, Jesus said the following: Jn 5:24 ‘Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

If we feel judged by the Word of God it is God's Spirit convicting us of sin *JOHN 16:8 and we should turn to God and believe and follow His Words. According to the scriptures, sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-31; JAMES 4:17; JAMES 2:10-11.

Thank you LGW you have finally written something that I have been writing for years. It is the Holy Spirit that is our guide convicting us of our sins and not the ten commandments that have been done away. 2Cor 3: 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! What was the ministry that brought condemnation LGW? See the "was" there? I was taught that "was" is past tense. The ten commandments used to be glorious and verse 11 says: 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! What does "transitory" mean to you LGW? Here in the USA it means temporary.

Bob for me surface reading and pulling scripture out of context is the reason there are over 40,000 different denominations of Christianity today. Your simply just repeating yourself again without addressing any of the posts and scriptures shared with you that prove what your claiming is not true.

You are correct I do repeat what the ambassador of Jesus wrote and will continue to compare the teachings of the SDA church with those scriptures. And talk about repeating, you are a master at doing that. Do you really believe we will look up all the texts you present on a subject? Well, I have a couple of times and most of the texts you provide have nothing to do with the subject. Could it be that is why you won't write out the texts instead of just giving us the information where to find them?

As shown through the scriptures alone Colossians 2:16 is talking about the annual cereminial sabbaths in the feast days (detailed scripture proof here).

All of the Sabbaths in the laws of the Sinai covenant were ceremonial LGW. Detailed Proof??? Detailed as per LGW's twist. As I wrote before all of the feasts were high days or Sabbaths. Why would Paul add some other Sabbath after he already wrote wrote that no one should judge another for not observing the feast days, Sabbaths. Seems to me like when he wrote feast days he meant all of them. The only other Sabbath in the laws of the Sinai covenant was the weekly Sabbath. So, your detailed proof was total twist so that it wouldn't destroy your preconceived beliefs.

As posted earlier in relation to 2 CORINTHIANS 3:6? Your only repeating yourself again without addressing any of my posts to you showing that that this is in reference to the two covenants and God's law being written on the heart to Love and love fulfilling God's law according to the new covenant promise *2 CORINTHIANS 3:3; HEBREWS 8:10-12. It is not telling us that Gods 10 commandments are abolished that interpretation would contradict the whole bible and make Paul a hypocrite (e.g. ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 13:8-10; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:19 etc, etc..)

Your use of Rom 3:31 Does not mean that we are under the law nor does it mean that the ten commandments have not been replaced by the Holy Spirit. Paul had just written in verse 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. Keeping the Sabbath of the done away ministry of death, ten commandments is works of the law. Then there is 1Cor 7: 19 Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
God has given man one big bunch of commands LGW. Now tell me which ones you are able to cull since you believe we have to keep the commands of the old covenant? Feast days were laws and you don't observe them. Not shaving your sideburns was a law.
Tell us why you think that verse is referring to the 10 commandments.

Amen Bob! No one is telling you to be justified or we have salvation by keeping the law so your scripture is not relevant Bob.

Could it be that preconceived beliefs cause people to not accept the real truth.

Sin not having dominion over us means that we will no longer be practicing sin *1 JOHN 3:6-9. We are under grace for OBEDIENCE to the faith...

Sin not having dominion over us means that the Blood of our Savior Jesus Christ has covered our sins blotting them out forever. If you were to stand before God today without Jesus our mediator, as Ellen White below tells you that you will have to do, would you have overcome sinning? I am thankful that Ellen once again is wrong because Jesus has promised to be with us always.
Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above, are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil. While the investigative judgment is going forward in heaven, while the sins of penitent believers are being removed from the sanctuary, there is to be a special work of purification, of putting away of sin, among God’s people upon earth. This work is more clearly presented in the messages of Revelation 14. {LSMS 114.2}

Grace is not a liscence to sin Bob it is given to us to we can walk in newness of life.

All of us are born sinners. Jesus never said that there would be a time when His blood would not cover our sins. We are only perfect in Jesus. Our newness of life after accepting Jesus in no way relieves us of sinning.

Christ's law is a new heart to love on which all the LAW and the prophets hang *MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; HEBREWS 8:10-12. This is the new covenant promise of to love which establishes God's LAW in the heart of all those who believe and follow God's Word.

What do you deem as being "God's law"? Jesus asks us to keep His commands. Jesus is God. Jesus kept the laws of the Sinai covenant.

No one is "Under the law" Bob if they have been forgiven for their sins *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9. We are only "Under the law" if we stand before God guilty of breaking the law according to the scriptures *ROMANS 3:19-20. Sin is not believing God's Word *ROMANS 14:23 and breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and just like anyone of God's 10 commandments if we knowingly break it we stand guilty before God of sin *1 JOHN 3:4. Sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's Kingdom because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *HEBREWS 10:26-31; ROMANS 6:23.

That is correct, no one is under the law period. I am so thankful not to be under the teachings of the SDA church. I know what is right nevertheless I sin. If I believed that I had to "keep" the Sabbath like the SDA church tells us we must then I could never overcome.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear.

I interpret that if I accept the words you post I will be blessed. I will continue to be blessed by Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Writ.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Could it be that preconceived beliefs cause people to not accept the real truth.

Could be. Happens all the time. Not limited to any faith group so, as usual, you're veering off-topic.

Well now that does cause quite a conundrum no doesn't it. I know we are not to judge, but do you really understand that you are supporting a church that does a lot of judging through the writings of none other than the prophet that you have taken a vow to believe. The biggie is the one where she wrote that unless I keep the weekly Sabbath I can't be saved. If that is not judging I will eat my hat.

Here, as is even more usual, you've run off the rails in the most typical of your ways. You inject your contempt for the most influential pioneer/leader of the Adventist church, Ellen G. White, into very nearly every discussion in which you participate, which is very nearly always about refuting Adventism, even though virtually no Adventist promotes the writings/views of Mrs. White outside of the Adventist-specific forums unless explicitly asked about them. You wouldn't get away with berating any other prominent or historic church figure and I think you know that. If you believe otherwise, just try it with some other doctrine/denomination/leader combination (Calvin, Luther, Wesley, The Pope, etc.) with which you disagree, with the same contempt you show for Mrs. White and the Adventist church and see how that works out for you.

I'm reminded of when I was a young fella, and I enjoyed watching professional wrestling. A big favorite of mine was a guy named Ric Flair. They called him "The Dirtiest Player In The Game." I wouldn't call you that, but this EGW-bashing thing you do is pretty lowdown. You do it with sardonic sarcasm, condescension, and obvious contempt. You'll doubtless deny it, but everybody can see it. I know that because I haven't gotten a single signal from even one of my fellow adherents that I'm wrong in calling you out for it. I am not in the least bit afraid to call sin by its right name. You habitually accuse and provoke the brethren. But I have a feeling that reporting you for it would get me banned instantly, and since it seems it's been going on for years, nothing more than getting banned would come of it. Call it judging, trashing, whatever you like, if it makes you feel or look better. There is more than one biblical definition of the word "judge."

The love of which you speak is reserved for anyone and anyone but Sabbath-keepers, and all because you eventually resented being taught and expected to give 10% of what God blessed you with back to Him. You evidently expect the Gospel to go to the world for free.

I have to tell you the tithing issue was my first hint that there are cracks in the foundation of the Seventh-Day Adventist church.

I could have gone into a lot of detail about how I allowed the church to drain our finances to the point we were living hand to mouth and they still wanted more. What a discouraging time it was. I ended up working two jobs and then started my own business and employed my own children to work for me. It was then that I started questioning God as to why we were so burdened. God answered and I started to see the inconsistency. I confided my problems to an Adventist friend and he was especially helpful about the tithing system. It overwhelmed him with our giving all to the church. He taught me a lot about how the tithing system worked in the Old Testament. and how Christians are to support the work. To make a long story short there is absolutely no such thing as Christian tithing in the Bible. My eyes were opened and I started wondering if there was anything else that the church believed that is not Biblical. Well, there is and It took a while, but now I am free in Christ.

If you allowed the church to bully you into paying more than 10% to the Conference, that's on you, not the world church, nor EGW.

If paying 10% was too much for you, the answer to that problem was faith cultivation and/or proper money management. There is no third way.

I've been down that same road. I've worked 3 jobs at times. I worked graveyard shift (10-12 hrs/day) so I could drive the kids from our church and community in a broken-down Dodge mini-van back and forth (132 miles/day) to parochial school for years. I've been jobless and disabled. No one from the church ever helped me, but God (not Mrs. White) is able to and did provide for that which He asks of me. One person (whom I just love to pieces) let me borrow his pickup truck when the wheel fell off of my 15-year-old car while driving one day. My uncle-in-law left the church over this same issue, but he has come back.

Today, I'm financially sound. Tomorrow, I could be destitute. 10% of my destitution would go to the storehouse. I return tithe directly from my bank to the local conference treasurer automatically, just like withholding tax. I offer another 5% in the collection plate. It is the least I can do. The Gospel does not go to the world for free and churches have bills to pay. We have a brand-new beautiful church where I live and it's completely paid for.

Foxes have holes, but the Son of Man had not where to lay His head. I am certainly no more deserving of wealth than He.

Jesus never said that there would be a time when His blood would not cover our sins. We are only perfect in Jesus.

Agreed. And neither did Mrs. White. The Priest's duties (even as mediator) have an end. But the benefits which the atonement provides are eternal. If you'd ever read this you'd know that:

"The blood of Christ is the eternal antidote for sin. The offensive character of sin is seen in what it cost the Son of God in humiliation, in suffering and death. All the worlds behold in Him a living testimony to the malignity of sin, for in His divine form He bears the marks of the curse. He is in the midst of the throne as a Lamb that hath been slain. The redeemed will ever be vividly impressed with the hateful character of sin, as they behold Him who died for their transgressions. The preciousness of the Offering will be more fully realized as the blood-washed throng more fully comprehend how God has made a new and living way for the salvation of men, through the union of the human and the divine in Christ.

The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death, who was the originator of sin. When Satan is destroyed, there will be none to tempt to evil; the atonement will never need to be repeated; and there will be no danger of another rebellion in the universe of God. That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels. Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ? The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds, as well as among those who shall be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Our only hope is perfect trust in the blood of Him who can save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The death of Christ on the cross of Calvary is our only hope in this world, and it will be our theme in the world to come."--The Signs of the Times, December 30, 1889

If the odds are/were that great you will be lost I think I would enjoy doing some real sinning, drink some wine, do some Sabbath shopping with the tithe you would have paid and get really happy. Do to all the lying Ellen did concerning plagiarism, made up stories plus a myriad of other issues, she would not have been the running for the "not one".

Speaks for itself. Context is irrelevant.

 

[JLB777]

Why do you keep referring to the law of Moses? Do yo beleive Christians can be saved in known unrepentant sin?

Because you keep quoting scriptures from the law of Moses, to try validate your belief that Christians must keep that Sabbath as the children of Israel were required to do under the law of Moses.


Do you believe Christians must keep the law of Moses in order to be saved?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Sorry dear friend your just repeating yourself again Colossians 2 is not talking about the 10 commandments or God's 4th commandment it is talking about the annual ceremonial sabbaths that are connected to the annual feast days that can fall on any day of the week that are not God's 4th commandment.

If you disagree perhaps you would like to prove that COLOSSIANS 2:14-17 is talking about God's 4th commandment? For example there are many different types of sabbaths mentioned in the old testament scriptures.

Which sabbath is COLOSSIANS 2:16 talking about? Is COLOSSIANS 2:16 talking about....

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:6-8

2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:27-32

3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:24-25?

4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:34-36

5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *LEVITICUS 23:39

6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days *LEVITICUS 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week

7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) *LEVITICUS 25:2

8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths *LEVITICUS 25:9-54

9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *EXODUS 20:8-11 from GENESIS 2:1-3

If you knew the old testament scriptures dear friend you would know what Paul is referring to in COLOSSIANS 2:16 and it is not God's 4th commandment. Your mixing up the "SHADOW laws" from the MOSAIC book of the old covenant *EXODUS 24;7; HEBREWS 10:1-12 with God's "ETERNAL LAW" (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.

Hope this helps.

Why do you keep quoting scriptures from the law of Moses?


Do you believe that Christians must keep the law of Moses to be saved?


Yes or No?




JLB

 

[JLB777]

Your repeating yourself again without addressing anything in the post you are quoting from.
Soooo??? Where is the Sabbath spoken about in ROMANS 14? This was already addressed with a detail review of ROMANS 14 which you simply ignored in post # 67 linked that shows your trying to read the Sabbath into the scriptures when ROMANS 14 is not talking about the Sabbath. Just repeating yourself does not make God's Word disappear. If you disagree please prove from the scriptures that ROMANS 14 is talking about God's 4th commandment? As shown through the scriptures already provided (post # 67 linked) ROMANS 14 is talking about days that men esteem over other days in relation to eating and not eating (fasting) and judging others in this regard. There is no mention of Gods' 4th commandment or any other of the 10 commandments.

Looks like you have a bit of catching up to do dear friend. If you disagree with anything shared with you and the scriptures provided please show why?

Do you believe it’s a sin to go to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday?




JLB

 

[Cribstyl]

Why do you keep quoting scriptures from the law of Moses?


Do you believe that Christians must keep the law of Moses to be saved?


Yes or No?




JLB

Most SDA believes that The Law of God is the ten commandments. They also believe that Law of God is distinguished from the Law of Moses.
So, they do believe that you can be saved by keeping the law of God.

 

[Bob S]

Col 2:
16-17 So don’t put up with anyone pressuring you in details of diet, worship services, or holy days. All those things are mere shadows cast before what was to come; the substance is Christ. (What churches do this sort of thing?)

18-19 Don’t tolerate people who try to run your life, ordering you to bow and scrape, insisting that you join their obsession with angels and that you seek out visions. They’re a lot of hot air, that’s all they are. ( Those are not my words) They’re completely out of touch with the source of life, Christ, who puts us together in one piece, whose very breath and blood flow through us. He is the Head and we are the body. We can grow up healthy in God only as he nourishes us.

20-23 So, then, if with Christ you’ve put all that pretentious and infantile religion behind you, why do you let yourselves be bullied by it? “Don’t touch this! Don’t taste that! Don’t go near this!” Do you think things that are here today and gone tomorrow are worth that kind of attention? Such things sound impressive if said in a deep enough voice. They even give the illusion of being pious and humble and ascetic. But they’re just another way of showing off, making yourselves look important. (Wow! I wonder who to whom this is pointing?) Message Bible

 

[Bob S]

Most SDA believes that The Law of God is the ten commandments. They also believe that Law of God is distinguished from the Law of Moses.
So, they do believe that you can be saved by keeping the law of God.

The plan wasn’t written out with ink on paper, with pages and pages of legal footnotes, killing your spirit. It’s written with Spirit on spirit, his life on our lives!
The Government of Death, its constitution chiseled on stone tablets, had a dazzling inaugural. Moses’ face as he delivered the tablets was so bright that day (even though it would fade soon enough) that the people of Israel could no more look right at him than stare into the sun. How much more dazzling, then, the Government of Living Spirit?
If the Government of Condemnation was impressive, how about this Government of Affirmation? Bright as that old government was, it would look downright dull alongside this new one. If that makeshift arrangement impressed us, how much more this brightly shining government installed for eternity?
With that kind of hope to excite us, nothing holds us back. Unlike Moses, we have nothing to hide. Everything is out in the open with us. He wore a veil so the children of Israel wouldn’t notice that the glory was fading away—and they didn’t notice. They didn’t notice it then and they don’t notice it now, don’t notice that there’s nothing left behind that veil. Even today when the proclamations of that old, bankrupt government are read out, they can’t see through it. Only Christ can get rid of the veil so they can see for themselves that there’s nothing there.
Whenever, though, they turn to face God as Moses did, God removes the veil and there they are—face-to-face! They suddenly recognize that God is a living, personal presence, not a piece of chiseled stone. And when God is personally present, a living Spirit, that old, constricting legislation is recognized as obsolete. We’re free of it! All of us! Nothing between us and God, our faces shining with the brightness of his face. And so we are transfigured much like the Messiah, our lives gradually becoming brighter and more beautiful as God enters our lives and we become like him. Message Bible 2Cor 3:6-18

The Ten Commandments are a transcript of the divine character, and are as unchangeable as the eternal throne. {SWk 42.1} Ellen White

God’s character is expressed in the Ten Commandments. To know God as He is—this is the science of all goodness and truth and righteousness. We must obey every expression of His character as revealed in His law. {UL 347.4} Ellen White

The ten commandments said nothing about love. So, if Ellen was correct then God's character does not contain love. Wait just a minute. Jesus character was all about love. Believe and love, that is the formula for eternal life.

Ellen, on the other hand wrote that keeping the defunct old covenant Sabbath that was given only to the Israelites is in her formula for eternal life. That is salvation by works of the law.

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Romans 11
17 Some of the tree's branches were pruned and you wild olive shoots were grafted in. Yet the fact that you are now fed by that rich and holy root
18 gives you no cause to crow over the pruned branches. Remember, you aren't feeding the root; the root is feeding you.
19 It's certainly possible to say, "Other branches were pruned so that I could be grafted in!"
20 Well and good. But they were pruned because they were deadwood, no longer connected by belief and commitment to the root. The only reason you're on the tree is because your graft "took" when you believed, and because you're connected to that belief-nurturing root. So don't get cocky and strut your branch. Be humbly mindful of the root that keeps you lithe and green.
21 If God didn't think twice about taking pruning shears to the natural branches, why would he hesitate over you? He wouldn't give it a second thought.
22 Make sure you stay alert to these qualities of gentle kindness and ruthless severity that exist side by side in God - ruthless with the deadwood, gentle with the grafted shoot. But don't presume on this gentleness. The moment you become deadwood, you're out of there.
23 And don't get to feeling superior to those pruned branches down on the ground. If they don't persist in remaining deadwood, they could very well get grafted back in. God can do that. He can perform miracle grafts.
24 Why, if he could graft you - branches cut from a tree out in the wild - into an orchard tree, he certainly isn't going to have any trouble grafting branches back into the tree they grew from in the first place. Just be glad you're in the tree, and hope for the best for the others.
25 I want to lay all this out on the table as clearly as I can, friends. This is complicated. It would be easy to misinterpret what's going on and arrogantly assume that you're royalty and they're just rabble, out on their ears for good. But that's not it at all. This hardness on the part of insider Israel toward God is temporary. Its effect is to open things up to all the outsiders so that we end up with a full house.
26 Before it's all over, there will be a complete Israel. As it is written, A champion will stride down from the mountain of Zion; he'll clean house in Jacob.
27 And this is my commitment to my people: removal of their sins.
28 From your point of view as you hear and embrace the good news of the Message, it looks like the Jews are God's enemies. But looked at from the long-range perspective of God's overall purpose, they remain God's oldest friends.
29 God's gifts and God's call are under full warranty - never canceled, never rescinded.

The Message
.

 

[Cribstyl]

Romans 11
17 Some of the tree's branches were pruned and you wild olive shoots were grafted in. Yet the fact that you are now fed by that rich and holy root
18 gives you no cause to crow over the pruned branches. Remember, you aren't feeding the root; the root is feeding you.
19 It's certainly possible to say, "Other branches were pruned so that I could be grafted in!"
20 Well and good. But they were pruned because they were deadwood, no longer connected by belief and commitment to the root. The only reason you're on the tree is because your graft "took" when you believed, and because you're connected to that belief-nurturing root. So don't get cocky and strut your branch. Be humbly mindful of the root that keeps you lithe and green.
21 If God didn't think twice about taking pruning shears to the natural branches, why would he hesitate over you? He wouldn't give it a second thought.
22 Make sure you stay alert to these qualities of gentle kindness and ruthless severity that exist side by side in God - ruthless with the deadwood, gentle with the grafted shoot. But don't presume on this gentleness. The moment you become deadwood, you're out of there.
23 And don't get to feeling superior to those pruned branches down on the ground. If they don't persist in remaining deadwood, they could very well get grafted back in. God can do that. He can perform miracle grafts.
24 Why, if he could graft you - branches cut from a tree out in the wild - into an orchard tree, he certainly isn't going to have any trouble grafting branches back into the tree they grew from in the first place. Just be glad you're in the tree, and hope for the best for the others.
25 I want to lay all this out on the table as clearly as I can, friends. This is complicated. It would be easy to misinterpret what's going on and arrogantly assume that you're royalty and they're just rabble, out on their ears for good. But that's not it at all. This hardness on the part of insider Israel toward God is temporary. Its effect is to open things up to all the outsiders so that we end up with a full house.
26 Before it's all over, there will be a complete Israel. As it is written, A champion will stride down from the mountain of Zion; he'll clean house in Jacob.
27 And this is my commitment to my people: removal of their sins.
28 From your point of view as you hear and embrace the good news of the Message, it looks like the Jews are God's enemies. But looked at from the long-range perspective of God's overall purpose, they remain God's oldest friends.
29 God's gifts and God's call are under full warranty - never canceled, never rescinded.

The Message
.

Amen

 

[Jesse Johnson]

Amen

So you agree that the church and Israel are the same thing.

 

[pescador]

So you agree that the church and Israel are the same thing.

They are completely different. Israel is a middle-Eastern country created in 1948. "The church" is the assembly of Christians -- the figurative body of Christ -- here and now.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

They are completely different. Israel is a middle-Eastern country created in 1948. "The church" is the assembly of Christians -- the figurative body of Christ -- here and now.

You have no idea what you're talking about. And who are these Sabbath-keepers of which you speak who have murderous intentions?

 

[Cribstyl]

So you agree that the church and Israel are the same thing.

I see the opposite in Rom 11.

God made some everlasting promises to the children of Israel. Gentiles are grafted in to make them jealous.

 

[Jesse Johnson]

I see the opposite in Rom 11.

God made some everlasting promises to the children of Israel. Gentiles are grafted in to make them jealous.

You're seeing what you want to see. You should really practice what you preach in your signature.
So your takeaway from Romans 11 is that God is feeding two different plans of salvation from the root of a single tree. We don't get the same promises as they and they don't get righteousness by faith. We're 2nd-class children of God and He's only saving us for the Jews' sake. We're just pawns in a game He's playing with Jewish people. If any or all of this isn't what you believe feel free to correct me.

By the way, this idea that Scripture is easy to understand is baloney. Everybody learns from other people. Human beings are generally too stubborn to look at It objectively. Very few people truly hunger and thirst after righteousness. The Bible is full of verses that say God hides Its meaning from the proud and self-sufficient. It's not even a matter of whether I am or not, but to what extent, in what manner, and what I am doing about it today, right now.

Personally and honestly, most of the time I'm running on fumes of the Spirit, and head knowledge that I have stored up from when I was more devout. I don't think there's even any virtue in admitting that, but I can't justify what I know isn't right. What I'm really saying when I get out of hand flaming people is actually "You must sin as I sin or you must not sin at all." There you go. Full disclosure.

But I'm telling you because I can't sleep at night knowing what I know and not warning people about it. All of this dispensation/covenant theology didn't exist before 1900. And the idea that the ten commandments were replaced by a pile of "Love one another" proof texts would have been laughed into oblivion by any Christian 100 years ago. Where I come from in the Bible Belt it would be more like 50 years ago.

When the great calamity(s) come and we're being told that the world has to turn back to God and the best way to do that would be to shut everything down every Sunday, watch out! You're going to see the end of religious liberty practically overnight. This COVID 19 matter shows how entirely possible that is.

Read "The Great Controversy." All the Seventh-day Adventist church represents is the culmination of the Protestant Reformation (which has been abandoned by evangelicals). It's that simple. You have a God-given right to believe anything you want to. I wouldn't deny anyone that. I'm a little rough around the edges but I'd give my life for religious liberty. And I don't mean the right to mandate prayer in schools or any other kind of political nonsense. But I've done my duty in this post.