Savior of the World, or Eternal Failure?

[Saint Steven]

If those ended up in paradise it sure would not be paradise anymore. Can you imagine living with the person who was your tormenter in life for all eternity? It's a gift that God doesn't allow this to happen, but gives the mockers what they wanted, separation from him.

If that "tormentor" asked you for forgiveness, what are you obliged to do?

 

[JacksBratt]

There is knowing someone superficially, and then there is knowing someone intimately.

After Bundy, Manson, and Hitler are refined in the fire, they will come out resembling Christ, and God will be all in all. As for some fabled paradise, where you get to do your favourite thing all day every day, that is an invention of the church. Scripture teaches no such thing.

That's just wacked...

Show me where hell is for a short time and then you are released. With Scripture.

 

[Saint Steven]

We are sinners.. We are not righteous.. Unrighteous beings cannot exist in the presence of God.. period.. impossible.

The video addresses this.

 

[renniks]

If that "tormentor" asked you for forgiveness, what are you obliged to do?

That's not my department. Only God can forgive the unforgivable. I can forgive sins against me, but that says nothing about the fate of the sinners soul.

 

[Saint Steven]

At what point do these people gain their righteousness?

At the point they realize that Jesus is their righteousness. He always was.
Every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.
If it has knees, it will bow; if it has a tongue, it will confess.
In heaven and on earth and under the earth. (the realm of the dead)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[Shrewd Manager]

That's not my department. Only God can forgive the unforgivable. I can forgive sins against me, but that says nothing about the fate of the sinners soul.

Right, Jesus has the last word on that. He is the Omega after all. And he is SALVATZIONEBUS! (I think that's Italian for Yahushua.)

 

[JacksBratt]

For many years now multitudes of preachers and people in the Churches would have us believe that God has been in this great work of the ages for the short period of about 6,000 years. They tell us that in this day God is about to become so disgusted with the whole mess that He is going to close it down, take a few saints away to some far off heaven somewhere, and give up on the rest of the creation, the work of His love.

Actually, He is not as disgusted as He is heart broken. He created man to be in fellowship with Him. At the time of Noah...all flesh was corrupt and thoughts were wicked all the time.. So, He took the 8 people that He could work with. Those "righteous in their generations" and started over.

Now, over time.. if this world continues.. no flesh would remain alive. God even says that.. If He doesn't intervene.. all would perish.. It's not what He wants.. it's what man has done.

What a WEAK God some folk have and worship! They worship a God who CHANGES, one who in the beginning did start out to bring about a glorious end, but somewhere along the line lost control of the situation and has now thrown up His hands in despair and decided to destroy the whole thing and be satisfied with a little handful for Himself for all eternity. What great pity I feel for such people and for the god they serve! For this is going to put their god in the unenviable position of being filled with regret throughout all eternity because He was not able to carry out His purpose, and He will have to always remember that over in the hell He created is the vast majority of His creation suffering the tortures of the damned for ever and ever. What a prospect for God and His creation! If God knew in the beginning that it would turn out like this and included eternal damnation in His creative plans, then why did He create the world in the first place? Better to have forgotten the whole creation in the beginning! And if God DID NOT know this from the beginning, THEN HE IS NOT GOD.

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

Sorry, I was going to try to respond to the many errors in this post.. but they are too numerous....

I have never heard of such twisted logic and theology.. Sorry... I'm baffled.

God Bless.

 

[Saint Steven]

"AION" - AN AGE

This brings us to the thought I want to share in this chapter. Let us consider the wonderful Kingdom parable Jesus told of the sheep and the goats. "When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory: and before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, Come, blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry, and you gave Me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink: I was a stranger, and you took Me in: naked, and you clothed Me: I was sick, and you visited Me: I was in prison, and you came unto Me. Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You? or thirsty, and gave You drink? When did we see You a stranger, and take You in? or naked, and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come unto You? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as you have done it unto the least of one of these MY BROTHERS, you have done it unto Me. Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry, and you gave Me no meat ... then shall they also answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto You? Then shall He answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as you did it not unto one of the least of these, you did it not unto Me. And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL" (Mat. 25:31-46).

Source: The Savior of the World, by J. Preston Eby
Kindgdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 1

 

[JacksBratt]

It seems like the gospel of Damnationism is that Jesus saves us from God.
That when God comes in his wrath to find us, Jesus steps in to protect us.

Not really..

Jesus saves us from being killed by the ultimate righteousness of God by making us righteous in His sight.

Satan is the accuser. He will accuse us as sinners in the court of God.. AND.. rightly so..

Jesus will step up and pardon us in the presence of God and Satan... IF we accepted Christ's gift in this life.

Those who rejected Christ.. will stand as accused.

There is not "time served" in Hell .

 

[BNR32FAN]

You seem to be presuming that sending countless billions to eternal torment was a reasonable plan.

To those who prefer the darkness over the light God grants them exactly what they wanted.

 

[renniks]

Right, Jesus has the last word on that. He is the Omega after all. And he is SALVATZIONEBUS! (I think that's Italian for Yahushua.)

And his last word was what? That some go away to eternal reward and some to eternal life.

 

[Saint Steven]

Actually, He is not as disgusted as He is heart broken. He created man to be in fellowship with Him. At the time of Noah...all flesh was corrupt and thoughts were wicked all the time.. So, He took the 8 people that He could work with. Those "righteous in their generations" and started over.

Now, over time.. if this world continues.. no flesh would remain alive. God even says that.. If He doesn't intervene.. all would perish.. It's not what He wants.. it's what man has done.

Sin is the fertilizer that made grace grow. Sin and punishment not being the goal or end, but rather grace and forgiveness.

Like the natural order of things. A tree grows and produces a leaf. When mature, the leaf dies and falls to the ground. Dead leaves are the mulch from which fresh new life springs. Therefore, death produces life. This is the divine order of things.

Can there ever be great victory without a great struggle? And the worse the foe, the more glorious the celebration. And doesn't God himself love an amazing story? Why would his divine plan end in defeat?

Romans 5:20-21
The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[JacksBratt]

This is presuming that God’s intention was for Christ to save everyone who ever lived. That may not be the case. I’m confident that you know that the word world does not always include all inhabitants of the world but can refer to a certain group in the world.

God's intention was for Jesus' work on the cross to be sufficient to save every human that ever lived.. and.. it is..
However, only a few will accept the gift.

If someone was on a corner and saying.. "I will give you a million dollars next week right here if you come back, just take this coupon"..

Some would not believe..and not take a coupon.

Some would believe and take a coupon.

The next week, those with the coupon get their million dollars...

Those without are not going to be able to say "HEY.. I believe you now.. can I have a million dollars too"?

They will be simply told NO.. not because the person couldn't but because the people didn't believe.

 

[Saint Steven]

To those who prefer the darkness over the light God grants them exactly what they wanted.

You have turned our loving heavenly Father into an angry volcano god. And then blamed the victims.

 

[JacksBratt]

If those ended up in paradise it sure would not be paradise anymore. Can you imagine living with the person who was your tormenter in life for all eternity? It's a gift that God doesn't allow this to happen, but gives the mockers what they wanted, separation from him.

I would be living with the source of paradise.. Those who chose to deny Him will be given what we all deserve.

Yep... they get what they have chosen.

 

[Saint Steven]

God's intention was for Jesus' work on the cross to be sufficient to save every human that ever lived.. and.. it is..
However, only a few will accept the gift.

If someone was on a corner and saying.. "I will give you a million dollars next week right here if you come back, just take this coupon"..

Some would not believe..and not take a coupon.

Some would believe and take a coupon.

The next week, those with the coupon get their million dollars...

Those without are not going to be able to say "HEY.. I believe you now.. can I have a million dollars too"?

They will be simply told NO.. not because the person couldn't but because the people didn't believe.

Wow. That's quite a gospel presentation. Have you watched the video yet?

 

[JacksBratt]

At the point they realize that Jesus is their righteousness. He always was.
Every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord.
If it has knees, it will bow; if it has a tongue, it will confess.
In heaven and on earth and under the earth. (the realm of the dead)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Every knee will bow.. some will then go to paradise.. others to damnation..

There are no atheists in hell..

 

[JacksBratt]

And his last word was what? That some go away to eternal reward and some to eternal life.

Scripture please?

 

[JacksBratt]

You have turned our loving heavenly Father into an angry volcano god. And then blamed the victims.

You have turned God into some wussy who after everything is said and done.. just opens the doors of heaven to all the humans.. good, bad and ugly.. A God that doesn't hold to His own words.

 

[Saint Steven]

Every knee will bow.. some will then go to paradise.. others to damnation..

There are no atheists in hell..

Acknowledge is defined as "openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back)." Thus not by coercion.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).