Earth is Flat

[A_Thinker]

Bridge across Lake Pontchartrain causeway showing earth's curvature ...

 

[prodromos]

Bridge across Lake Pontchartrain causeway showing earth's curvature ...

And in particular, the fact that the water of the lake's surface also curves.

 

[prodromos]

Really it is indisputable if they were to look at the evidence and be honest with themselves.

I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you here. The evidence clearly demonstrates the earth to be spherical. The fact that there is daylight for 24 hours in Antarctica during Summer, or the fact that direct flights between Sydney and Santiago take less time than flights between Sydney and Los Angeles, or the fact that we have lunar eclipses, none of which are possible if the earth is flat yet happen regardless.

The bible surely and undoubtedly claims the earth to be flat, the dilemma is whether people want to believe Him.

Not at all. The Scriptures are written in many different genre's which often aren't meant to be understood in the literal sense that flat earthers insist on. It actually makes God out to be a deceiver, which we know is not the case.

You have chosen a beautiful name BTW, I love how Greek names all have rich meaning.

 

[tryphena rose]

Would you care to have a polite discussion on how we know Flat Earth claims are false? You might have to learn some science and math.

Not interested. You're not leaving any scripture as I just have, so you can find someone else to speak with on the matter. My reply is for those that believe in God's word, and only in God's word. I don't expect anyone to believe me, only the God they serve if they claim to serve Him, that is why I talk only on scripture of which is irrefutable. I won't reply to anyone if they're not bringing forth scripture. I'm here in the Christian forums, to speak on the Bible and nothing else.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not interested. You're not leaving any scripture as I just have, so you can find someone else to speak with on the matter. My reply is for those that believe in God's word, and only in God's word. I don't expect anyone to believe me, only the God they serve if they claim to serve Him, that is why I talk only on scripture of which is irrefutable. I won't reply to anyone if they're not bringing forth scripture. I'm here in the Christian forums, to speak on the Bible and nothing else.

Scripture does not apply. The Bible is not a science book. Not even the Bible makes the mistake of claiming to be literally true. This is a question that needs to be solved with the scientific method. Abusing the Bible only causes rational thinking people to leave the religion even faster.

 

[Freodin]

Not interested. You're not leaving any scripture as I just have, so you can find someone else to speak with on the matter. My reply is for those that believe in God's word, and only in God's word. I don't expect anyone to believe me, only the God they serve if they claim to serve Him, that is why I talk only on scripture of which is irrefutable. I won't reply to anyone if they're not bringing forth scripture. I'm here in the Christian forums, to speak on the Bible and nothing else.

Well, here in this part of the Christian Forums, you will be faced with non-Christians, as well as Christians who disagree with your worldview... and still consider the Bible "God's word".

If you are not willing to talk with them, you will be reduced to talking at them... and that has been shown to be not a very good way of having a conversation.

 

[Kinable]

Hey, just to let you know myself and my husband came to the realization that the earth is as the bible claims it, flat, about 2 years ago. You are not alone despite how you may feel on this forum.

Thanks, it really helps that people have been letting me know this. I've even gotten PMed that people support my thread. I'm considering commissioning an animator to show the first 4 days of creation to give a visual aid to people on how the Earth was formed according to scripture. Thank you for bringing the firmament/expanse to my attention, I hadn't considered the translation accuracy of these verses.

 

[Kinable]

So ... how come all the ancients (i.e. believers in a flat earth) ... didn't love and believe in Jesus and God more ???

Because they had their own theories on how the Earth was formed and what the Earth was. That's why I chose the Hebrew model. Everyone knew the true nature of the Earth being flat which strengthened their belief in their gods. If the majority of the world today knew the true nature of the Earth they'd either believe that a god does exist or those that already believe in God like Christians would be absolutely sure God is real since flat earth proves we are created. Christians who believe in Globe earth have turned away from God because Globe Earth makes us seem like we were created by a cosmic coincidence. I simply cannot understand why any Christian would believe in the big bang/solar system model of the universe of the first chapter of the bible describes the Hebrew model of earth which is flat.

 

[Kinable]

Scripture does not apply. The Bible is not a science book. Not even the Bible makes the mistake of claiming to be literally true.

Why is there no "Christian Only" section where we can talk about Flat Earth? Why is blasphemy allowed on a Christian forum? Why are you guys even here? I used the scientific method perfectly but you didn't agree because my experiment didn't align with your confirmation bias.

 

[solid_core]

I'm here in the Christian forums, to speak on the Bible and nothing else.

Christianity is not just about Bible.

Rationality, human experience, reason, history, researching the universe we live in etc are not outside of Christianity, but consistent parts of God's creation and revelation of His attributes.

First scientists were Christians.

 

[Freodin]

Because they had their own theories on how the Earth was formed and what the Earth was. That's why I chose the Hebrew model. Everyone knew the true nature of the Earth being flat which strengthened their belief in their gods. If the majority of the world today knew the true nature of the Earth they'd either believe that a god does exist or those that already believe in God like Christians would be absolutely sure God is real since flat earth proves we are created. Christians who believe in Globe earth have turned away from God because Globe Earth makes us seem like we were created by a cosmic coincidence. I simply cannot understand why any Christian would believe in the big bang/solar system model of the universe of the first chapter of the bible describes the Hebrew model of earth which is flat.

If you take a little closer look into all these models, you will find out that every single one of them had a sun than went in an arc across the sky at day, and then in some other way went back during the night... which would indeed be consistent with "what our senses tell us" that the Flat Earthers are so keen to use.
Yes, even the Hebrew model does that.

But that now is a claim that even the staunchest modern Flat Earther tries to defend.
I wonder why they all - you included, it seems - trust "science" over "God's word" in this case.

 

[Strathos]

Why is there no "Christian Only" section where we can talk about Flat Earth? Why is blasphemy allowed on a Christian forum? Why are you guys even here? I used the scientific method perfectly but you didn't agree because my experiment didn't align with your confirmation bias.

There are many who suspect the entire modern flat earth movement to be an atheist scam to make Christians look crazy. You are doing no favors to Christianity by promoting this nonsense.

 

[Freodin]

Why is there no "Christian Only" section where we can talk about Flat Earth? Why is blasphemy allowed on a Christian forum? Why are you guys even here? I used the scientific method perfectly but you didn't agree because my experiment didn't align with your confirmation bias.

I'm sure it wouldn't count as "blasphemy"... but asserting that other professed Christians are not "true Christians", as you did in your last post, is definitly against the rules of the Forum... rules that you have agreed to follow when you registered here.

So I would be very very careful about throwing around accusations, pal!

 

[Freodin]

There are many who suspect the entire modern flat earth movement to be an atheist scam to make Christians look crazy. You are doing no favors to Christianity by promoting this nonsense.

If that was correct... would that make Kinable a Poe... or show that this "atheist scam" has a point?

 

[Kinable]

If you take a little closer look into all these models, you will find out that every single one of them had a sun than went in an arc across the sky at day, and then in some other way went back during the night... which would indeed be consistent with "what our senses tell us" that the Flat Earthers are so keen to use.
Yes, even the Hebrew model does that.

But that now is a claim that even the staunchest modern Flat Earther tries to defend.
I wonder why they all - you included, it seems - trust "science" over "God's word" in this case.

You make the mistake of associating pseudoscience like Big Bang Theory and Theory of Relativity as real science.

Pseudoscience
: a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific

Neither of these theories are proven or fact. They only work on paper using the same formulas that only work within those theories and not real life. No one has proven that you can make water stick to a ball or that the Big Bang actually happened. These are by definition pseudoscience. I believe in science which is why I used the scientific method to prove the earth is not a sphere twice in posts #236 and #242. This is real science, claiming the earth is a sphere because of how gravity works in a pseudoscience theory isn't real science.

 

[Freodin]

You make the mistake of associating pseudoscience like Big Bang Theory and Theory of Relativity as real science.

Pseudoscience
: a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific

Neither of these theories are proven or fact. They only work on paper using the same formulas that only work within those theories and not real life. No one has proven that you can make water stick to a ball or that the Big Bang actually happened. These are by definition pseudoscience. I believe in science which is why I used the scientific method to prove the earth is not a sphere twice in posts #236 and #242. This is real science, claiming the earth is a sphere because of how gravity works in a pseudoscience theory isn't real science.

That didn't address the point I made. This isn't talking about Big Bang or Relativity. This is talking about the claims the the Biblical Model makes (or that it makes according to your interpretation).

So, please just address my point and don't try to evade.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why is there no "Christian Only" section where we can talk about Flat Earth? Why is blasphemy allowed on a Christian forum? Why are you guys even here? I used the scientific method perfectly but you didn't agree because my experiment didn't align with your confirmation bias.

I am not a mod so I do not know. You could go the the Christians only creation section. And what "blasphemy"? If anything those that abuse the Bible, those that are overly literalistic, appear to be the one's spreading blasphemy.

And no, you did not use the scientific method. You refused to even discuss the scientific method. Your experiment failed on several different levels. Do you not understand that you wanted to look through public photos of a picture that no photographer would keep if it existed? In other words your experiment fails due to a false filter.

Once again I offer to discuss the scientific method with you. We can start at the beginning and run through the steps in the flow chart that I provided. If you did "follow the scientific method" you should have no problem doing so. Running away from a more than reasonable offer indicates that you know that you did not follow the scientific method.

 

[Duke of Stratford]

If I might bring something up? Technically speaking, there is no "proving" anything in science. Scientific theories are defined as the best possible explanations we have for something. By that definition, everything we hold as scientific truth is technically a theory. For instance, germs are technically a theory, even though most people accept them as fact. If a theory has to definitively prove something to be considered scientific, then literally everything is, by this definition, "pseudoscience." Thus, technically, anyone can dismiss anything they want as "pseudoscience" if they don't agree with the ideas presented. There's actually a lot of debate in the world about what is and isn't pseudoscience because the word is so difficult to define. The lines are hard to draw.

A lot of people who have replied to this thread, Christian and non-Christian, have provided illustrations that operate via the scientific method to justify the existence of a spherical earth. They've been engaging with the claims purported by flat-earth theory and the evidence provided for it. That's not pseudoscience. Something that cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt is not what pseudoscience means. By scientific definition, we cannot definitively know everything. So conversations comparing theories are important, but to be effective, there needs to be a willingness to engage on both sides of the issue without resorting to No True Scotsman fallacies. All of us have confirmation bias, too. It's just how we're wired.

I believe in a spherical earth. I also believe in God as sovereign Creator. The two aren't mutually exclusive. When I look at the complexity of the universe, I see God's incredible power of creation! It's amazing! And the thing is, I'm okay with not understanding every single facet of how everything works because I'm not God. And that lack of understanding makes conversations about science and faith really valuable.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You make the mistake of associating pseudoscience like Big Bang Theory and Theory of Relativity as real science.

Pseudoscience
: a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific

Neither of these theories are proven or fact. They only work on paper using the same formulas that only work within those theories and not real life. No one has proven that you can make water stick to a ball or that the Big Bang actually happened. These are by definition pseudoscience. I believe in science which is why I used the scientific method to prove the earth is not a sphere twice in posts #236 and #242. This is real science, claiming the earth is a sphere because of how gravity works in a pseudoscience theory isn't real science.

So you do not use the GPS feature on your phone. How do you disable that? There are those that are paranoid about being tracked, as they tracked the students that went on spring break in Florida.

To be serious when you make claims like this you put a heavy burden of proof upon yourself. Especially as a Christian. If you cannot support your claims properly then it is a certainty that you just broke the Ninth Commandment by bearing false witness against your neighbor. That law is a ban on much more than just lying:

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour - Wikipedia

 

[tryphena rose]

Well, here in this part of the Christian Forums, you will be faced with non-Christians, as well as Christians who disagree with your worldview... and still consider the Bible "God's word".

If you are not willing to talk with them, you will be reduced to talking at them... and that has been shown to be not a very good way of having a conversation.

Firstly, this post was in the Christian section before it was moved to the non-christian section, by what I assume were moderators. Thus, I can logically still intend my words to be for those with ears to hear, proverbially. Primarily Christians.

Feel free to refute any of what I said on my first post. There are an abundance of flat earth, firmament, verses in the bible that will completely dismiss any notion of an ever-expanding universe or a globe earth. This is the sole reason for my confidence. The two world views being talked about here, when it comes to cosmology, are diametrically opposed to another. Only one can be true, and my God is no liar. If you don't have anything of substance to offer a bible believing Christian, then that is fine and you forfeit any argument, in my eyes.

I only address you because you spoke of God's word, but if you can't do as I ask and refute me using God's word, then this is where the conversation ends. And that is completely fine with me, I have zero qualms with anyone who disagrees with me based on worldly knowledge.