LDS How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.

[Jamesone5]

It is absolute fact.

No--- you want to BELIEVE it is fact. Truth does not work that way where someone only wants something to be true. You only believe it to be true.

Just like in your false testimonies where you tell people you pretend to know this or that is true. God is not answerable to you on what is factual and true.

 

[Jamesone5]

Then you have the wrong spirit because it is well known that Joseph and Hyrum were not the only ones in the Carthage jail when they were murdered. John Taylor was badly wounded during the attack:

In June 1844, Smith came to the jail to face charges relating to his ordering the destruction of facilities producing the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper whose only edition had been critical of the Smiths' religious teachings. He was joined by his brother, Hyrum, and fellow Latter Day Saints John Taylor and Willard Richards. On June 27, a mob stormed the upper room of the prison and killed the Smiths. Taylor was badly wounded and Richards was scathed, but not seriously injured.[4][5]

From: Carthage Jail - Wikipedia

Here is another way I know you are not telling the truth---really do not need the Holy Spirit here:

These were the people in the Jail:
"The Smith brothers were held at the Carthage Jail and were joined there by Willard Richards, John Taylor, and John Solomon Fullmer. Six other associates accompanied the Smiths: John P. Greene, Stephen Markham, Dan Jones, John S. Fullmer, Dr. Southwick, and Lorenzo D. Wassoo----He is the Way

We started out with a whole host of men, 9 plus the 2 Smith's that I count here. And yet those 11 were not enough to overpower those who wanted to kill the Smith's in a small room?

and then this is the latest assertion

In June 1844, Smith came to the jail to face charges relating to his ordering the destruction of facilities
producing the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper whose only edition had been critical of the Smiths' religious teachings. He was joined by his brother, Hyrum, and fellow Latter Day Saints John Taylor and Willard Richards. On June 27, a mob stormed the upper room of the prison and killed the Smiths. Taylor was badly wounded and Richards was scathed, but not seriously injured._He is the Way


Here it is only 2 plus the 2 Smith's .

It's like you are having a bidding war to somehow prove how many actually were there or not there.

At least try to keep your Wikipedia stories consistent, which that source is in no way reliable.

 

[Ironhold]

Only four people were there in the prison that day.

...But Joseph received regular guests, which is how he got the two pistols in the first place.

It's honestly that simple, and this entire discussion comes off as you deciding it's easier to rewrite history than admit to being incorrect about something.

 

[He is the way]

No--- you want to BELIEVE it is fact. Truth does not work that way where someone only wants something to be true. You only believe it to be true.

Just like in your false testimonies where you tell people you pretend to know this or that is true. God is not answerable to you on what is factual and true.

You would argue that George Washington was not president of the United States if it would suit your purpose. Just how much proof do you need?

 

[Jamesone5]

You would argue that George Washington was not president of the United States if it would suit your purpose. Just how much proof do you need?

Now you telling me what I would argue. The arrogance of Mormonism is astounding.

My purpose, as you say, is truth. You cannot figure out whether it is 11 people or 4 or whatever and then you try to dazzle me with some Wiki articles that were written long after the fact,.

Tells me a lot about Mormons and truth.

 

[He is the way]

Here is another way I know you are not telling the truth---really do not need the Holy Spirit here:

These were the people in the Jail:
"The Smith brothers were held at the Carthage Jail and were joined there by Willard Richards, John Taylor, and John Solomon Fullmer. Six other associates accompanied the Smiths: John P. Greene, Stephen Markham, Dan Jones, John S. Fullmer, Dr. Southwick, and Lorenzo D. Wassoo----He is the Way

We started out with a whole host of men, 9 plus the 2 Smith's that I count here. And yet those 11 were not enough to overpower those who wanted to kill the Smith's in a small room?

and then this is the latest assertion

In June 1844, Smith came to the jail to face charges relating to his ordering the destruction of facilities
producing the Nauvoo Expositor, a newspaper whose only edition had been critical of the Smiths' religious teachings. He was joined by his brother, Hyrum, and fellow Latter Day Saints John Taylor and Willard Richards. On June 27, a mob stormed the upper room of the prison and killed the Smiths. Taylor was badly wounded and Richards was scathed, but not seriously injured._He is the Way


Here it is only 2 plus the 2 Smith's .

It's like you are having a bidding war to somehow prove how many actually were there or not there.

At least try to keep your Wikipedia stories consistent, which that source is in no way reliable.

You don't realize that both accounts are true. The jail had more than one room, I know because I have been there. Not only that, but people came to visit while Joseph Smith was incarcerated. It is also known for a fact that Joseph and Hyrum were NOT the only ones in the cell when the mob of approximately 200 people attacked. The spirit you insist told you that Joseph and Hyrum were the only ones in the cell was wrong.

 

[He is the way]

Now you telling me what I would argue.

My purpose, as you say, is truth. You cannot figure out whether it is 11 people or 4 or whatever.

Tells me a lot about Mormons and truth.

It was not a one room jail.

 

[Jamesone5]

You don't realize that both accounts are true. The jail had more than one room, I know because I have been there. Not only that, but people came to visit while Joseph Smith was incarcerated. It is also known for a fact that Joseph and Hyrum were NOT the only ones in the cell when the mob of approximately 200 people attacked. The spirit you insist told you that Joseph and Hyrum were the only ones in the cell was wrong.

Now I am to rely on only your word? a Mormon who will defend his prophet to all who will believe?

And you call the Holy Spirit --just a spirit who was wrong?

Tell you what. I am going to back out of this discussion because you are only making your Church look worse than it already is.

 

[Jamesone5]

It was not a one room jail.

I never claimed that it was.

 

[He is the way]

I never claimed that it was.

Your claim that Joseph and Hyrum were the only ones in the cell is wrong because we know that John Taylor and Willard Richards were also in the cell with them.

Taylor is reported to have had a marvelous singing voice. At the request of Hyrum Smith, he twice sang the song "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief" in Carthage Jail just before the Smith brothers' murder.[16]

From: John Taylor (Mormon) - Wikipedia

Richards was incarcerated in Carthage Jail with Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith and John Taylor on June 27, 1844, when the jail was attacked by a mob and the Smiths were murdered. Taylor was shot four times and severely injured, but survived the attack.

From: Willard Richards - Wikipedia

That means that the spirit that told you that Joseph and Hyrum were the only ones in there was wrong.

 

[Jamesone5]

I honestly think this is some kind of game for you. Bored because you cannot go out and do your good works thing?

 

[He is the way]

I honestly think this is some kind of game for you. Bored because you cannot go out and do your good works thing?

I made a decision to correct the misconceptions about The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints that were prevalent on the internet. It is not a game, it is of deep concern to me that people believe these misconceptions.

 

[Jamesone5]

I made a decision to correct the misconceptions about The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints that were prevalent on the internet. It is not a game, it is of deep concern to me that people believe these misconceptions.

The you are doing your church as disservice.

 

[mmksparbud]

I made a decision to correct the misconceptions about The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints that were prevalent on the internet. It is not a game, it is of deep concern to me that people believe these misconceptions.

May I ask what is the importance of whether there were 2 or more persons in the cell? The murder happened no matter how many there were. Time to move on?

 

[He is the way]

The you are doing your church as disservice.

Well there are many people that have misconceptions and sometimes believe in and spread false information.

 

[He is the way]

May I ask what is the importance of whether there were 2 or more persons in the cell? The murder happened no matter how many there were. Time to move on?

Joseph Smith was trying to protect the others in the cell.

 

[mmksparbud]

Joseph Smith was trying to protect the others in the cell.

Really? Trying to murder others, even in self defense, is not something that Jesus taught. When Peter cut off the servants ear, God reprimanded him and healed the man's ear. I've said this before---no martyr ever died defending himself, much less trying to kilo another. I hope I never die with murder in my heart even for those coming to kill me. Not exactly a Stephen, was he?

 

[Ironhold]

Really? Trying to murder others, even in self defense, is not something that Jesus taught. When Peter cut off the servants ear, God reprimanded him and healed the man's ear. I've said this before---no martyr ever died defending himself, much less trying to kilo another. I hope I never die with murder in my heart even for those coming to kill me. Not exactly a Stephen, was he?

Basically, Joseph snapped off the shots in the hopes that it would panic the mob and send them scurrying.

It didn't.

If it *had* then it would have caused the mob to run without anyone else being killed, and so would have actually saved lives.

 

[mmksparbud]

Basically, Joseph snapped off the shots in the hopes that it would panic the mob and send them scurrying.

It didn't.

If it *had* then it would have caused the mob to run without anyone else being killed, and so would have actually saved lives.

LOL! You claim to be able to read his mind during an incident that happened over a hundred years ago??

 

[Jamesone5]

Well there are many people that have misconceptions and sometimes believe in and spread false information.

The "cat is out of the bag" in a sense that through the Internet people can actually read what Joseph Smith and Brigham Young said---from your Churches own resources. But, you won't find them on places like your Churches website.

No longer does one have to pour through many books like I did before I left.

The big books of the Journal of Discourses [Brigham Young's sermons] I checked out from our library and did an fairly long extensive search and my decision to leave the Church after 40 years was not something I did lightly. He is by the way, the original leader of the SLCity branch of Mormonism.

Mormonism seems to be so innocent and friendly on the outside, but "inside" with your history and all the claims---they are not of God.

So you are fighting a losing battle for those who want to investigate instead of blindly accepting all the Mormon nonsense. Here is good resource.

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