Will Bernie Sanders' long-ago praise of Socialist regimes hurt Democrats in November?

[lordjeff]

Can anyone name any piece of legislation that he has passed of significance. No. See people follow politiicians by their name recognition on the senate floor. Being a loud mouth does not a statesman make. Most of these people have not passed a single major act that has benefitted the majority of us. People vote on name recognition. The media does not want to admit he's a commie but he is & people who are in disbelief that it can't happen here-why can't it happen here? Anyone who has had a decent social studies schooling, should be able to recognize communism when they see & stop being blind.

 

[Jermayn]

The democrats lose no matter what happens. Bernie at the top of the ticket will lose to many moderates and independents, and Bloomberg will lose Bernies base.

 

[Cis.jd]

I am tempted to vote for him just for the sake of having these college snowflakes actually see how much of their "socialism" nonsense has owned them. So it's either they are going to finally learn the hard way, or they are actually right with the whole money thing. I'm more interested in seeing them own themselves though.

 

[Silmarien]

The democrats lose no matter what happens. Bernie at the top of the ticket will lose to many moderates and independents, and Bloomberg will lose Bernies base.

Progressives are largely on board with supporting Biden, Buttigieg, or Klobuchar. Bloomberg is really the only centrist candidate who would lose Sanders and Warren supporters.

I suspect that Sanders actually is the strongest candidate to take on Trump, simply because of all that populist energy, not to mention the fact that his message is much bigger larger than just, "Let's beat Trump," but centrists do have options besides Bloomberg if they want the left to vote.

 

[Cimorene]

I read the whole article in the OP + Bernie's letter from the 80s. The letter was epic. So glad the OP made this thread so that I could read that letter. It bodes extremely well for him that he took the time to write out an articulate, fact-based, sensible letter. It's clearly written by him. I don't think Trump could find Nicaragua on a map if there was a neon x to mark the spot for him, much less have the slightest clue about its history, the Iran-Contra Affair, what Reagan did, & he doesn't have the ability or the care to write out a letter like that. I also paid attn. in history class to know what Bernie said was true.

He's not my favourite candidate but of course I'll vote for him if he wins the nomination. (I live in Canada but I am an American, and I'm gonna be voting this yr.)

Of course a lot of ppl who don't like him, wouldn't vote for him if he saved their dog from a burning house, so this kinda thing is just another thing to make noise about.

 

[JacksBratt]

I read the whole article in the OP + Bernie's letter from the 80s. The letter was epic. So glad the OP made this thread so that I could read that letter. It bodes extremely well for him that he took the time to write out an articulate, fact-based, sensible letter. It's clearly written by him. I don't think Trump could find Nicaragua on a map if there was a neon x to mark the spot for him, much less have the slightest clue about its history, the Iran-Contra Affair, what Reagan did, & he doesn't have the ability or the care to write out a letter like that. I also paid attn. in history class to know what Bernie said was true.

He's not my favourite candidate but of course I'll vote for him if he wins the nomination. (I live in Canada but I am an American, and I'm gonna be voting this yr.)

Of course a lot of ppl who don't like him, wouldn't vote for him if he saved their dog from a burning house, so this kinda thing is just another thing to make noise about.

Just curious... How are you going to vote for him if you are in Canada?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

"A mere $30,000" at an average interest rate of 4.53% means paying $1,359 a year in interest alone. If someone doesn't have the resources to pay off the principal, that is the minimum they would need to pay annually to keep the debt from growing even larger.

Looking at an amortization schedule, if you want to pay that off in 10 years, that's going to involve monthly payments of $311. Your total interest paid at the end would be $7360, so about a quarter of the actual loan you took out. A 20 year plan would involve $190 monthly payments, but if my math is right, the total interest paid in the end would be $15,770. That's more than half of the original debt.

The average salary for a college graduate is about $50,000, which in my state would be about $3300 a month after taxes. To continue with the New York estimates, let's say you're spending $1800 of that in rent and $500 on food a month, which leaves you with $1000 a month. That is not including utilities, phone and internet, etc. Much less something like car insurance.

The $311 a month 10 year amortization plan is probably not feasible at this point, which means you're going to get killed by the interest.

We're not talking about peanuts, even with a $30,000 loan.

Not every graduate will work in New York.
You should be able to eat on $200 per month. That leaves $300 more for debt repayment.

Besides that,

Average college debt: $30,000
Average additional income: $1,000,000

What's the problem?

 

[Mark Quayle]

My interest here is to hear from non-Christians and Christians alike who support Bernie. Since other political forums are Christian-only, and this is current news as of yesterday, I posted it here.

By Ken Dilanian and Dan De Luce (NBC News)


"WASHINGTON — In October 1985, a few months after Bernie Sanders traveled to Nicaragua to celebrate the sixth anniversary of that country's socialist revolution, the Soviet-backed government suspended the civil liberties of its citizens, including the rights to free speech, free assembly and labor strikes."

For article see: Will Sanders' past praise of Socialist regimes hurt Democrats?

I don't see why this is called news. The last four years (and long before that, actually) the press announces as news, things that have been long known, but not reported in the "news". This is not presented as such, yet the fact it is "in the news" as you said, speaks to the mindset of readers who take the media at their word. I know you didn't mean the information presented was new, and that you meant it was relevant to current events --but the mindset is still there.

When the twin towers were hit, I remember a lady saying, "Now it is time for America to pray." I couldn't help but think, "Why hasn't America already been praying?" There is nothing new about Terrorism.

What is more scary to me is the way Islam is creeping into the mainstream, public opinion swinging its way, and legal opinion favoring them over other religions. They don't just want to become accepted, but to take over. No, not all of them, but public figures more and more step up to forward the cause of Islam, nearly unopposed.

 

[Silmarien]

Not every graduate will work in New York.
You should be able to eat on $200 per month. That leaves $300 more for debt repayment.

Wages are generally lower outside of major cities, so it still evens out. I looked up the average amount of time that it takes to pay off a college loan, and it's apparently 21 years, so I think my analysis is on target. The ten year frame is unrealistic for most people.

This means that college graduates are financially crippled for a significant period of time, which has consequences both for them and for the economy as a whole. Personally, I'm not really in favor of free college education, but I think reform is necessary so that we have the sort of costs that are normal in Europe (Oxford costs only a fourth of what Harvard and Stanford cost).

Besides that,

Average college debt: $30,000
Average additional income: $1,000,000

What's the problem?

Well, sure. If you just want to make figures up, we can say that everyone's a millionaire and that nobody has trouble paying loans back because nobody needs one in the first place. You have unrealistic expectations of how powerful college degrees are right now, since they've become a bare minimum, not something that opens doors in and of itself.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Wages are generally lower outside of major cities, so it still evens out. I looked up the average amount of time that it takes to pay off a college loan, and it's apparently 21 years, so I think my analysis is on target. The ten year frame is unrealistic for most people.

Why "look up" the average amount of time. Set your own schedule for paying it off. All that does is give one an excuse to drag their feet, and complain about how unfair it is.

Well, sure. If you just want to make figures up, we can say that everyone's a millionaire and that nobody has trouble paying loans back because nobody needs one in the first place.

Those are real figures.

 

[Silmarien]

Why "look up" the average amount of time. Set your own schedule for paying it off. All that does is give one an excuse to drag their feet, and complain about how unfair it is.

I looked up the average time to see if my calculations actually matched up to reality. They do, which means that your claim that a $30,000 loan is "peanuts" is false. College students are being burdened significantly. Even capitalists should be concerned about that, since it diminishes their buying power, which has effects upon the whole economy.

I paid off my loan, so don't pull the, "Stop complaining and get to work" card here. My criticism is that it's completely unsustainable and is a significant drag upon the economy, not that it's unfair. (Though I do think charging interest is exploitative and inherently immoral. Same thing goes for charging prices that are completely non-proportional to the value of the service rendered, as has become the case. And that's ignoring the deeper issues concerning wealth and access to education.)

Those are real figures.

Alright, I've found your statistic now. Over an entire lifetime, college graduates earn $1 million more than non-college graduates. The median yearly income gap, however, is $17,500, not $1,000,000.

Over a 45 year time period, a college grad making $50,000 a year would make $2,250,000, whereas a high school grad making $17,500 less would earn $1,462,500. This is what you're $1 million figure is referring to, so unless you have $1,462,500 sitting around yourself, this number is basically irrelevant.

 

[Aldebaran]

The democrats lose no matter what happens. Bernie at the top of the ticket will lose to many moderates and independents, and Bloomberg will lose Bernies base.

Bernie said he wouldn't accept money from billionaires. Bloomberg said he would use his money to support whoever the democrat nominee ends up being. If he accepts Bloomberg's money, he could lose a lot of his voter base. If he doesn't, he will be easily be outspent by Trump.

In the end, I don't think Bernie will be able to resist. Elizabeth Warren couldn't. She said she wouldn't accept super pac money, but changed her mind when she realized she has no chance otherwise. Warren Reverses On Super PACs: "All The Men" Have One

 

[Aldebaran]

I am tempted to vote for him just for the sake of having these college snowflakes actually see how much of their "socialism" nonsense has owned them. So it's either they are going to finally learn the hard way, or they are actually right with the whole money thing. I'm more interested in seeing them own themselves though.

I saw a news show on TV this morning where a group of college-aged "democratic socialists" were interviewed in order to let them tell us what they're really all about. It was pretty revealing that those kids don't understand how things work. Statements about how "The richest 1% have all the money!" show that don't understand how capitalism works. I fear for our country if they end up taking over.

 

[Cis.jd]

I saw a news show on TV this morning where a group of college-aged "democratic socialists" were interviewed in order to let them tell us what they're really all about. It was pretty revealing that those kids don't understand how things work. Statements about how "The richest 1% have all the money!" show that don't understand how capitalism works. I fear for our country if they end up taking over.

They will whine endlessly either way. At least Sanders or who ever wins, at least the whining will be their fault with out question. It would suck for others though... but I guess it wouldn't be a bad thing to look into moving to a different country.

 

[Cimorene]

They will wine endlessly either way.

Wine endlessly, ok, bring on the rosé.

 

[Cis.jd]

Wine endlessly, ok, bring on the rosé.

I could have sworn i pressed H.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I looked up the average time to see if my calculations actually matched up to reality. They do, which means that your claim that a $30,000 loan is "peanuts" is false. College students are being burdened significantly. Even capitalists should be concerned about that, since it diminishes their buying power, which has effects upon the whole economy.

I paid off my loan, so don't pull the, "Stop complaining and get to work" card here. My criticism is that it's completely unsustainable and is a significant drag upon the economy, not that it's unfair. (Though I do think charging interest is exploitative and inherently immoral. Same thing goes for charging prices that are completely non-proportional to the value of the service rendered, as has become the case. And that's ignoring the deeper issues concerning wealth and access to education.)



Alright, I've found your statistic now. Over an entire lifetime, college graduates earn $1 million more than non-college graduates. The median yearly income gap, however, is $17,500, not $1,000,000.

Over a 45 year time period, a college grad making $50,000 a year would make $2,250,000, whereas a high school grad making $17,500 less would earn $1,462,500. This is what you're $1 million figure is referring to, so unless you have $1,462,500 sitting around yourself, this number is basically irrelevant.

Of course there is more to it than that. Dave Ramsey calls it "Doc-itis".

I looked up the average time to see if my calculations actually matched up to reality. They do, which means that your claim that a $30,000 loan is "peanuts" is false. College students are being burdened significantly. Even capitalists should be concerned about that, since it diminishes their buying power, which has effects upon the whole economy.

I paid off my loan, so don't pull the, "Stop complaining and get to work" card here. My criticism is that it's completely unsustainable and is a significant drag upon the economy, not that it's unfair. (Though I do think charging interest is exploitative and inherently immoral. Same thing goes for charging prices that are completely non-proportional to the value of the service rendered, as has become the case. And that's ignoring the deeper issues concerning wealth and access to education.)



Alright, I've found your statistic now. Over an entire lifetime, college graduates earn $1 million more than non-college graduates. The median yearly income gap, however, is $17,500, not $1,000,000.

Over a 45 year time period, a college grad making $50,000 a year would make $2,250,000, whereas a high school grad making $17,500 less would earn $1,462,500. This is what you're $1 million figure is referring to, so unless you have $1,462,500 sitting around yourself, this number is basically irrelevant.

Average college debt upon graduation: $30,000
Average starting salary upon graduation: $50,000

What's the problem?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Wine endlessly, ok, bring on the rosé.

Not just any rose'...cracklin' rose'.

 

[Silmarien]

Average college debt upon graduation: $30,000
Average starting salary upon graduation: $50,000

What's the problem?

Living expenses and interest rates.

 

[Silmarien]

They will whine endlessly either way. At least Sanders or who ever wins, at least the whining will be their fault with out question. It would suck for others though... but I guess it wouldn't be a bad thing to look into moving to a different country.

I've got about three years of research on citizenship requirements abroad, if you want some tips.