The hypocrisy of being "pro-life"

[Hazelelponi]

It is about respect.

No. It's about right verses wrong and whether murdering an innocent life is morally right.

It is never morally right according to scripture.

Is it a sin that is able to be forgiven? Yes. But just because God can forgive it through Christ, doesn't ever make it morally right, nor should it become socially acceptable.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Why does the government have a moral obligation to do anything but protect the innocent and punish the evil doer. That's the job of government, protecting the innocent and punishing the evil doer. If you run out and murder someone, the government has no moral obligation other than to implement justice for the crime you commit.

I have no idea why you still don't get it. The moral obligation is to reduce the number of abortions, which, of course, can't be done by punishing her after the fact. If the government does not help her do whatever she needs to do to avoid having an abortion, she will end up being punished as a result. Do you think she will not seek an illegal, unsafe abortion by an untrained person? It happens. Do you tihnk treating women like they are less important than their unborn babies will help others not want ot have abortions? No way. It is always immoral to just tell a woman, "Aboriton is murder," and do nothing a chairty would do to help her. What is so hard to understand about the fact that not all pregnant women and girls have access to a charitible organization with complete maternal, adoption, and childcare services?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I have no idea why you still don't get it. The moral obligation is to reduce the number of abortions, which, of course, can't be done by punishing her after the fact. If the government does not help her do whatever she needs to do to avoid having an abortion, she will end up being punished as a result. Do you think she will not seek an illegal, unsafe abortion by an untrained person? It happens. Do you tihnk treating women like they are less important than their unborn babies will help others not want ot have abortions? No way. It is always immoral to just tell a woman, "Aboriton is murder," and do nothing a chairty would do to help her. What is so hard to understand about the fact that not all pregnant women and girls have access to a charitible organization with complete maternal, adoption, and childcare services?

Who is "not helping"?

It's not governments job to help but they do their best anyway.. it IS people's responsibility to help others and they do every day..

I've helped and done all I can with those who I knew...

So who is this group who is "not helping" young mothers in need?

I can say murder is wrong and still help those in need. I can have a non-socialist view of government and still personally help those who need help.

What I will never do is give tacit approval to murdering innocent human beings.

 

[GodLovesCats]

No. It's about right verses wrong and whether murdering an innocent life is morally right.

It is never morally right according to scripture.

Is it a sin that is able to be forgiven? Yes. But just because God can forgive it through Christ, doesn't ever make it morally right, nor should it become socially acceptable.

It is about love. God loves the woman as much as He loves the baby. Telling her abortion is murder is not showing her love. If you love the mom you don't want to betray her and punish her after the baby dies. It is not Biblical to say, "Put up with it. You deserve to be cursed with this baby." No, the Biblical thing to do is say, "May I help you?" Let me know when every town in America, not just the big cities, has services to help threse women so that none of them will be desperate enough to seek dangerous illegal abortions.

 

[Hazelelponi]

It is about love. God loves the woman as much as He loves the baby. Telling her abortion is murder is not showing her love. If you love the mom you don't want to betray her and punish her after the baby dies. It is not Biblical to say, "Put up with it. You deserve to be cursed with this baby." No, the Biblical thing to do is say, "May I help you?" Let me know when every town in America, not just the big cities, has services to help threse women so that none of them will be desperate enough to seek dangerous illegal abortions.

How is saying abortion is murdering an innocent human life "not helping"?

I think the TRUTH is very helpful indeed.

The second we decide human life has no worth outside of what that life can do for us as a person, or as a society, is the second you begin killing off those who are seen as "useless".

It begins with the unborn and then spreads to the elderly (we are already there btw)... after that we turn our faces to those who are disabled and what then? Those we simply disagree with?

Life either has worth and is worth protecting, or it has no worth at all. There is no middle ground on this point.

It doesn't mean if a pregnant women walked up to me and needed help I wouldn't help her with all I have and am.

 

[Niels]

I thought you were going to say that the hypocrisy has to do with also supporting the death penalty. There seems to be a lot of overlap between those two!

For what it's worth, I'm both pro life and anti death penalty. When there's even a remote possibility that an innocent life might be taken, I would rather err on the side of caution.

I also strongly support unbiased and comprehensive sex education. The more people understand about sex, and the fact that pregnancy and the contraction of STDs can occur even with protection, the less likely they are to find themselves with unwanted pregnancy. Before people choose to have sex, they should be made aware of what they're getting into. That way, they are better equipped to make responsible choices.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Who is "not helping"?

People who start and stop at saying, "Abortion is murder." It seems to me most pro-lifers want the girl or woman to just tough it out. That is what I am speaking out against here.

 

[GodLovesCats]

How is saying abortion is murdering an innocent human life "not helping"?

Because all it does is make her feel worse. Jesus told people not to talk down to others. What happened to the line, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," straight from his mouth? Would you want someone to call you a murderer after paying a fine?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Because all it does is make her feel worse. Jesus told people not to talk down to others. What happened to thel ine, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" straight from his mouth?

Pleading for the life of an innocent human being and offering options that are good for both her and her child makes the pregnant woman feel worse about what, exactly?

 

[GodLovesCats]

Pleading for the life of an innocent human being and offering options that are good for both her and her child makes the pregnant woman feel worse about what, exactly?

Telling the mother she murdered her baby is not helping her. That only makes her, a woman who might already have PTSD, feel worse.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Telling the mother she murdered her baby is not helping her.

She's pregnant (present tense)... so how is pointing out that murder is wrong and offering options that provides for the welfare of both her and her baby "not helpful"?

 

[GodLovesCats]

She's pregnant (present tense)... so how is pointing out that murder is wrong and offering options that provides for the welfare of both her and her baby "not helpful"?

Telling her abortion is murder would scare her to death. She would think, "I have to put up with this unwanted baby just to avoid spending my life in prison." Is that what you want someone to make you think?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Telling her abortion is murder would scare her to death. She would think, "I have to put up with this baby just to avoid spending my life in prison." Is that what you want someone to tell you?

So?

We tell people speeding is wrong because it can hurt others unnecessarily, the point is to prevent avoidable car accidents...

Should we stop because some people are afraid of meeting a cop while speeding?

We tell people (and make laws) calling murder wrong in the hopes it will prevent unnecessary deaths.

Should we stop and begin supporting murder because some people are afraid of going to jail for killing people?

We call rape wrong (and a crime) should we stop calling it wrong because we don't want rapists to feel bad about their degenerate selves?

should they feel good about rape instead since they are just evil and can't help it?

We tell people wrong is wrong on a daily basis... we don't seek to make evil people doing evil things more comfortable in their evil natures, we seek to do things to protect innocent people.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Hazel, you are still missing the point. This is something that will change the woman for the rest of her life and she could already be suffering both mentally and physically. Have you ever heard the phrse, "Adding insult to injury?" That is what it is. Speeding is just driving too fast. You only pay a fine. It has no effect on what happens later unless you are injured in an accident.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Hazel, you are still missing the point. This is something that will change the woman for the rest of her life and she could already be suffering both mentally and physically. Have you ever heard the phrse, "Adding insult to injury?" That is what it is. Speeding is just driving too fast. You only pay a fine. It has no effect on what happens later unless you are injured in an accident.

I've had children, I've died while giving birth... I don't think carrying a child is adding insult to injury.

If you think that is adding insult to injury, try imagining it from the babies point of view!

 

[GodLovesCats]

That is not an excuse for refusing to accept the fact telling someone, "Abortion is murder," is an insult.

You could not have died during childbirth because you are alive today.

 

[98cwitr]

That is not an excuse for refusing to accept the fact telling someone, "Abortion is murder," is an insult.

You could not have died during childbirth because you are alive today.

It's not meant to be an insult, but a deterrent. It's also not meant to condemn, but to bring about repentance. Women who have abortions can be forgiven if they truly believe in the Gospel, repent of that sin (and our others, as we ALL should), and pray for forgiveness.

Abortion is an insult to God. Who formed the baby, and who man decided to destroy; destroy the innocent image of God.

The atrocity is not in the occurrence in abortions as so much as it's in the acceptance and promotion of them by a subset of our society. "I have a right to kill my child" should never be a right, no more than owning slaves should have been in the 1830s; but as slavery was legal, accepted, uphold by state and federal courts; and promoted by a subset, abortion is today.

 

[chevyontheriver]

WE cant have one conversation about protecting the unborn without people continuing to try an change the subject. First they try to change the name by avoiding the term "abortion" all together. Now we start talking about movies? Anything to take our minds off the unborn.

We have to make a choice.....fight for our feelings and beliefs.....Or fight for the unborn.

Chill.

 

[Hazelelponi]

You could not have died during childbirth because you are alive today.

I bled out and died..

my placenta detached from the uterine wall before it was time for me to give birth, and I was bleeding out with my daughter still inside me.. by the time they got me in the O.R. I had lost too much blood (and my blood pressure too low) to be put under general anesthesia without dying, so they had 5 IV's in me at the same time, 2 with fluid and 3 giving me blood and were trying to force the birth of my daughter by physically opening my cervix (via the doctors fingers) and trying to get me to push my daughter out at the same time.

The doctor kept slapping me, I remember, to keep me awake, and the nurses were basically sitting me up and pushing against my stomach while I pushed to help get her out faster.

At one point in all that I couldn't hang on and died.

The doctor revived me (they can do that these days). Death is still death.. just because the doctor brought me back doesn't negate the facts.

It was a life-changing moment for me. Some day if you like I'll tell you what happened then...

 

[chevyontheriver]

It is about love. God loves the woman as much as He loves the baby. Telling her abortion is murder is not showing her love. If you love the mom you don't want to betray her and punish her after the baby dies. It is not Biblical to say, "Put up with it. You deserve to be cursed with this baby." No, the Biblical thing to do is say, "May I help you?" Let me know when every town in America, not just the big cities, has services to help threse women so that none of them will be desperate enough to seek dangerous illegal abortions.

You have advocated for abortion here, because you say nobody wants to help pregnant women. But what have you done to help a woman who is pregnant, so that your solution of abortion, which you don't even seem to like all that much, can be avoided? Call for more government programs? What in the concrete?