The lie of the "right" regarding socialism

[Robin Mauro]

Socialism is always going to benefit a small group at the top of the socialist hierarchy. They are the one's that get to define the common good and their opinion will always be that the common good requires their being enriched at the expense of everyone else. I would be considered a political conservative by most people. I oppose all forms of welfare that do not meet a specific criterion. That being that government largesse should only go to those that are in reality incapable of providing for themselves. Obviously corporate welfare would be the furthest thing from that one can imagine. Where we disagree is that IMO if a corporation provides a service that people desire, that corporation deserves to make whatever the market will bear. So If Nestle bottles water that people are inclined to buy they are not doing anything wrong. I pay my local government to deliver water to me. I would be unreasonable and illogical to expect that government all of that government's employees and all the employees and companies involved with that delivery system to work for free because the water was there already.

Replace the word socialism with capitalism and you will be correct.
'Capitalism (unrestrained) is always going to benefit a small group at the top..."

 

[iluvatar5150]

If I get my water from a well, is that draining ground water?

Yes, using a well drains ground water. For most residential users, the impact is probably negligible except perhaps in conditions of drought or severe over-development, but for a commercial user, it could be significant.

If the water is on my land, how is that a public resource?

An aquifer typically does not stop at one's property lines. If you and I are neighbors, my pulling water from my well drains the aquifer under both of our properties.

Who are they screwing over? How?

I'm not terribly familiar with the Nestle case, but possible examples include anybody else who relies on that water source or anybody who's built above it and risks having the ground beneath their facilities shift.

 

[Robin Mauro]

Yes, using a well drains ground water. For most residential users, the impact is probably negligible except perhaps in conditions of drought or severe over-development, but for a commercial user, it could be significant.



An aquifer typically does not stop at one's property lines. If you and I are neighbors, my pulling water from my well drains the aquifer under both of our properties.



I'm not terribly familiar with the Nestle case, but possible examples include anybody else who relies on that water source or anybody who's built above it and risks having the ground beneath their facilities shift.

Nestle takes millions of gallons. It can also cause desertification

 

[Tom 1]

Socialism is always going to benefit a small group at the top of the socialist hierarchy.

You really ought to inform yourself a bit, you know. Communist dictatorships and socialism are not the same thing - that isn’t an opinion, you can see how it works in the actual real world, and it doesn’t require much effort.

 

[SkyWriting]

Unrestrained capitalism only works well for the rich.

And people who wear clothes, eat food, drive cars, and have jobs.

Which is not all people:

 

[SkyWriting]

Nestle takes millions of gallons. It can also cause desertification

People drink it actually. Most of it comes back out not far from where it goes in.
We don't shoot the water into space.

 

[SkyWriting]

Replace the word socialism with capitalism and you will be correct.
'Capitalism (unrestrained) is always going to benefit a small group at the top..."

And everyone that benefits from the use of Capitol like to make a brick, pour a pane of glass, or build a building. What do you think happens when rich people spend their money? (They don't usually burn cash to light cigars.)

 

[Robin Mauro]

People drink it actually. Most of it comes back out not far from where it goes in.
We don't shoot the water into space.

It is transfered out of its natural cycle far, far away.
Have you ever studied desertification? You should.

 

[Robin Mauro]

And everyone that benefits from the use of Capitol like to make a brick, pour a pane of glass, or build a building. What do you think happens when rich people spend their money? (They don't usually burn cash to light cigars.)

People have made bricks since the beginning of time, and clothes...
Your arguments make no sense whatsoever

 

[Speedwell]

People have made bricks since the beginning of time, and clothes...
Your arguments make no sense whatsoever

It doesn't require an unregulated limited liability corporation to make bricks and clothes, even if the bricks and clothes are made in a capitalist economy. Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are in private rather than government hands. The brickmaker or the tailor in a small village are capitalists if they own their own tools.

 

[rjs330]

European socialism is not freedom. It is a drive to mediocrity and lack of freedom. It is super high taxes. Little spending money. Very high costs of living and fewer choices.

If you want that, then go live there. Don't take away my ability to live differently. And places like Norway are boosted by oil. Otherwise it would be even more expensive.

 

[gaara4158]

And everyone that benefits from the use of Capitol like to make a brick, pour a pane of glass, or build a building. What do you think happens when rich people spend their money? (They don't usually burn cash to light cigars.)

Extremely expensive housing, absurd luxury homes, and poor/homeless begging in the streets? Yes, we know.

 

[gaara4158]

European socialism is not freedom. It is a drive to mediocrity and lack of freedom. It is super high taxes. Little spending money. Very high costs of living and fewer choices.

If you want that, then go live there. Don't take away my ability to live differently. And places like Norway are boosted by oil. Otherwise it would be even more expensive.

And American capitalism is freedom? People go bankrupt regularly from medical bills. Education required for higher paying jobs costs more than a year’s salary at said jobs, and the loans can’t be escaped even by bankruptcy. Whole lot of freedom you have right now. Freedom to be charged and exploited.

 

[Tom 1]

European socialism is not freedom. It is a drive to mediocrity and lack of freedom. It is super high taxes. Little spending money. Very high costs of living and fewer choices.

If you want that, then go live there. Don't take away my ability to live differently. And places like Norway are boosted by oil. Otherwise it would be even more expensive.

That is the fantasy world many over there seem to believe in. Where does that come from? I’ve been to the US and I was frankly astonished by the level of poverty and urban decay. People literally living in shacks on the edges of the city, like in a 3rd world country, abandoned buildings in the centre of town. People afraid to walk anywhere. Massively overweight zombies trundling around shopping malls fulfilling their duty to consume, consume, consume to keep the whole thing going. Have you ever been over here? What do you imagine is mediocre about Europe? Who doesn’t have spending money - I have plenty, and so do most people I know, and few of us have an unusually high income. Who runs this dumb propaganda, really? Looking at this and other similar threads it’s pretty obvious that the average American doles out more cash for the things most people in European countries take for granted and gets far less in return. Why do you all feel the need to insist that your illusions are real? What benefit do you get from that? And what on Earth are you talking about with ‘mediocrity’? Are you genuinely unaware of, well, anything outside of your back yard?

 

[Tom 1]

fewer choices.

This really tops it off. You clearly have no idea how utterly wrong you are.

Freedom is not going out and fighting to get your share of an ever decreasing pie. Freedom comes through education, and the US education system is woeful compared to that of any developed European country. The US is fuelled by relentless propaganda - that isn’t freedom, it’s the illusion of freedom.

 

[SkyWriting]

Extremely expensive housing, absurd luxury homes, and poor/homeless begging in the streets? Yes, we know.

And synthetic materials for tents:

 

[SkyWriting]

And that has what to do with the poor making your shoes and jeans and shirts and whatever else you claimed the capitalists made?

Capitalists make everything that you don't make or grow yourself.
In the photos above, capitalists gather goods to create a home for themselves.
Even a small community.

The people below are not capitalists:

 

[KCfromNC]

You do know that the government controlled nhs gets equal or better public health outcomes yet spends about half the amount market driven American for profit method does?

How do you square that circle?

From what I've seen in this thread, by attempting to conflate having better health insurance with turning the country into Cuba or something.

 

[KCfromNC]

To say 'the poor' are lazy is a ridiculous statement.

If you really want to change their mind, stop voting for people who promote these sorts of stories.

 

[KCfromNC]

And everyone that benefits from the use of Capitol like to make a brick, pour a pane of glass, or build a building. What do you think happens when rich people spend their money?

Based on how middle class incomes have stagnated since trickle-down became a thing, apparently not all that much that benefits the rest of society.